Talk:Eli Manning pass to David Tyree

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Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 8 February 2008. The result of the discussion was keep.

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[edit] Merge

I'm proposing that this be merged into Super Bowl XLII. Granted the play was significant, but for the time being it's still too early to say for sure what is going to mean more in Super Bowl lore: that one play, or the drive (converting on 2 3rd downs and a 4th). DrFishcake (talk) 10:29, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree. This is not WikiNews. There is no reason to make an article about a pass that has not stood the test of time to indicate that it is truly notable (ie: The Catch (American football)). -- kainaw™ 14:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
What test would that be? There's already more articles specifically about this one play than most notable topics have received. Torc2 (talk) 18:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Good grief. There's another article up on this same catch, under The Catch (2008). Do we move to merge all three, or wait until the first two are straightened out? Snowfire51 (talk) 08:42, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

I think we need to delete all of the articles and then incorporate into the Super Bowl XLII article relevant information. Just have a section versus a whole article. The Little Corporal (talk) 16:37, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Name

What do you guys think the name of the play should be?I've read some great names people posted on yahoo answers like..

The Giant Connention,The Slip and Grip,The Great Escape(even though this doesn't pertain to Tyree's end of the play,it's still a great title),The Miracle,The Imperfect Play For The Perfect Ending(even though this is A great name and perfectly explains the play,it is entirely to long) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daverich313 (talk • contribs) 11:06, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

How about "The pass that was on all the highlight reels in February of 2008 and then showed up in a few top 10 catches of all time lists in 2009 and then was forgotten about by 2010"? There is no reason to assume that this catch is notable. Nobody has traveled back in time from 2018 to let us know that this catch will be remembered as significant in any way. -- kainaw™ 14:20, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Under no circumstances should we be giving this play a name. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and everything here must be properly referenced with secondary sources. If someone else from a reliable source has given this play a name (such as the Holy Roller or the Immaculate Reception, we can use it. If not, giving it a name would be WP:OR. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Snowfire51 (talk • contribs) 16:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Is there a reliable source calling it "The Great Escape"? Snowfire51 (talk) 22:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
There are probably one or two sources calling that, but nothing that establishes widespread acceptance. I doubt that will stick since it doesn't acknowledge Tyree's part in this. We shouldn't put it in the article yet. Torc2 (talk) 22:50, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

I agree,I havn't heard a official name or nickname from any notable source,we should just leave it simply as "Eli Manning Pass To Tyree" and whether this will be football lore....uhmmmm I don't know,it will be for sure to Giants fans,but will just have to wait and see,but This play was extremely significant for multiple reasons,everyone was almost certain that patriots were going to win and no one thought the the giants had A chance at 1:15 and miraculously manning escaped and it almost looked for sure that Manning was sacked and then he throws the ball and Tyree leaps in the air and BARLEY catches it and holds onto against his helmet,the play was amazing and not just the play it,but the unbelievable win.the video plays on youtube total well over 1,000,000 and this is only 2 days later and I've already seen the replay on multiple sports news shows over 20 times.We have definitely witnessed history guys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daverich313 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Although it did appear in the LA Times as "Hail Manning" I believe that is a very misleading name since it was obviously not a "Hail Mary" play. And in all seriousness one sportswriter calling it "Hail Manning" does not warrant the mention "also known as "Hail Manning""Nazionale (talk) 13:05, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth, the play was referred to as "The Cheater Beater" on YouTube and a number of football message boards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.125.22.66 (talk) 20:02, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AfD nomination of The Catch (2008)

An article that you have been involved in editing, The Catch (2008), has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Catch (2008). Thank you. Endless Dan 14:30, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Eli Miracle

That's what I believe most people call them. Many media and NFL.com says the play is Eli Miracle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.174.131.233 (talk) 20:50, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Video of the play

Youtube took down the video claiming NFL copyright and that's probably going to be the case for any video that's put up there that isn't from the NFL's website. There, however, all I could find is clips of the whole game and not the play itself. Kika chuck (talk) 17:00, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article title

Is there a good reason to believe this play will become known as "The Catch" hereafter? I ask from the POV of maintaining the disambiguation page The Catch, to which one of the three articles on this pass has been added. --Sturm 19:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I'm fairly certain this play won't be called The Catch, since we've already got one of those. Snowfire51 (talk) 20:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
I think it should be simply titled "Manning to Tyree." conman33 (. . .talk) 00:27, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I think "Manning to Tyree" should be in the title, it's not specific enough to stand alone as a title. "Super Bowl XLII" should be in the title too. Torc2 (talk) 00:34, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Another name choice was "The Great Escape", because of how Manning was able to avoid the sack, get the pass off, and complete the play. We should have a "name nomination" poll, then hold a vote. Either that or wait for NFL Films to name it in the SB XLII video. John cena123 (talk) 17:26, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia should not be naming the play at all. Eventually a name will be settled upon, then we should update the article title. We shouldn't be influencing the name at all, and we shouldn't be in a rush to figure out what to call it. Torc2 (talk) 19:00, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Exactly. I agree there should not be a move of any sort until there's an "official" name. WAVY 10 Fan (talk) 19:23, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Basically, Torc2 said what I was coming over here to say if it hadn't. We need to be aware of a possible future need to move this page to a new title once it gets an established name. Kurt Weber (Go Colts!) 04:18, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Names of the catches

I feel the names of the catches are highly lacking in WP:NPOV and are only named the way they are, only by the media, to over-exaggerate the importance of the catch itself. It is obvious that a lot of them are not common names and may be one-off titles presented in the media. For example, ESPN uses three of the ten names, from what I see: "Slip and Grip", "Hail Manning" and "The Helmet Catch". Obviously these are not common names, they are only used once, and they are from the same source. Were it a common name, the same souce (in this case ESPN) would have refered to it each time as the same name. The same thing can be applied to New York Daily News, as they refered to it as "Catch 42" and "The Great Escape". Even the NFL themselves do not refer the catch as the same name, they call it "Flee to Tyree" and "Double Miracle". For those of you keeping count that is seven out of the ten names given in this article that are not notable. The other three are "The Desert Miracle" (WFAN interview, I'm guessing that is a radio network), "The Play" (Albany Times) and "David and Eliath" (The Jimmy Kimmel Show). What are the qualifications of notability for this section, that they have to be said on television/radio/film and somebody liked it? Absurd, we'll be having an exhaustive list here soon of names some talk show host or sports anaylist called it. Can anyone find a name for the play that was repeatedly refered to by the media? If you can, please add it to the article with references, preferable non-copyright violated references; links like the YouTube ones provided on the article are inappropriate. For the time being though, I am removing the section as there is no evidence that is shown to me that any of the names are substantially significant or that have shown to be a common name given to the catch. — Κaiba 11:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Don't know what WP:NPOV has to do with this. Some of the names are used often and some less. There's no reason to delete the whole section. The section has been heavily edited by a number of editors. Please see if you can gain a consensus before deleteing a whole entire section. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 16:17, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I see this section is being watched really carefully [1]. Instead, why don't you show me how any of the names are a common name given to the catch or assert any significance, rather than inserting a bunch of cruft-like names given by the media? — Κaiba 11:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
And I see you reverted again. I understand that they are in fact reliable sources of information, but I challenge the significance of the names all together. Will you please, as I stated above, give me multiple sources that the names are commonly used or assert any significance? — Κaiba 00:11, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
The naming of the play is part of the overall story surrounding of the play. This Wikipedia article isn't just supposed to give a blow-by-blow of the actual play, its supposed to tell the whole story, and the name of the paly is part of the story. If you think that some of the names are rarly mentioned and don't belong in the article then make a case for each specific name. But don't delete a whole entire sourced section that tells a major part of the story surrounding the catch. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 00:30, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
Doing a quick search on "Slip and Grip" proves no results on Google, but after adding the extra word "Super Bowl" after it pulled up some interesting results. [2] Most of hits are to some "Name the Play" blog or poll. And FYI, forums blogs or polls are not notable or reliable at all. And as I stated before, the media repeating one of these names a single time doesn't make the name notable. The catch being referred to by multiple names by the same source (ESPN calls the catch three different names and they only called it those names once). It's already widely established that there are forums debating what to call it and thats where the media is getting these, no doubt. Forums aren't reliable. — Κaiba 01:32, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Helmet Catch

I've been in conversation via OTRS with someone who claims to have trademarked the phrase "The Helmet Catch." A search of the USPTO trademark database confirms that it is indeed a registered trademark, so I've added a note to that effect. howcheng {chat} 20:38, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry but why do we need that in the article? I have removed it for the time being,Theresa Knott | The otter sank 21:04, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
Could be useful. For example, imagine a scenario where a reader comes along and decides they like the name "Helmet Catch" the best and starts posting videos on YouTube or talking about it on their blog using the term. By noting here that it's trademarked, we could save them from getting nastygrams later. We don't need to identify the trademark holder, just note that it's been registered. howcheng {chat} 22:10, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
A fair point. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 21:58, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Miracle in the Desert?

Tyree himself refers to this play as the Miracle in the Desert, as it is the name of his official website. Is this enough to get the article moved to Miracle in the Desert? --Savethemooses (talk) 22:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Probably not, since Tyree does not, in himself alone, represent a widespread consensus on the issue. Since there is no single name which has jumped out from all of the sources, we are stuck with the generic name for now. We can find single sources for half a dozen other names, the problem is no single nickname for this play has been established, like has for other signature plays. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 23:26, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Listing

Should this play be listed at National Football League lore? RC-0722 361.0/1 20:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)