Talk:Elektrichka

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Dear ding, first of all let me thank you for the improvement of my article (namely its English). However, I allowed myself to revert some of your edits which I found incorrect. Still, I need further help with some of these to keep their sense. Best wishes, AlexPU 19:07, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Do we need a history of suburban rail services in Russia and USSR? Posted by Achp ru

Do you mean HERE? In general, we certainly do!!! But mostly not here. May be only need here a few details on when and where the first elektrichka line in USSR was establsihed. All the rest should go to the Rail transport in Russia/Ukraine/etc., commuter train etc. What we desperately need for this page, is photos. Ukrained 17:07, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Well, there are lots of photos. But I don't know what is their legal status. I think I myself could make several photos of DC-models ER-2 (newer front design), ED-4MK, EM-2I in Moscow, and AC-models ER-9 (older front design), ED-9M in Nizhny Novgorod. There is an SR-3 and ER-22 in Moscow Railway Museum. I don't know if describing all these variations is important for this article.
As for Rail transport in Russia/Ukraine/etc., I doubt if it would be good to describe elektrichka history (and prehistory) in several pages. Elektrichka is a phenomenon common to all post-Soviet countries, and it shares a common history (except the latest years).

Contents

[edit] Elektrichka in Ukraine

The following moved from User talk:Ukrained:

A couple of questions. Are you sure that Luhansk Oblast is the only not electrified rail in UA? I remember from a while ago, that in the West of Ukraine all the suburban transit was on diesel trains and not Elektrichkas for the very reason of the lack of electrification. Of course things might have changed such that I missed the news.
I just added the info from Monday's TV newscast reporting the opening of (Alhevs'k?)-Debaltseve elektrichka line. They said Luhanschyna has been the only region which had no elektrickhas at all until now (that's what I meant), and that electrification is going rapidly. I can't remember the channel. If you find the issue controversial (which is not), I could look for references. But it is definitely not a priority (remember what Sasha said).
Another question is about rapid trains. You wrote about Rivne line. I also know about the rapid Kharkiv-Kiev train. How many are there? Also, are you sure this info belongs to Elektrichka rather than Ukrainian Railways article. I just don't know whether it is correct to say that these rapid intercity trains are electrichka's legacy, since the latter has always been perceived as suburban rail transit. I don't know the answers, just some thoughts here. --Irpen 02:35, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
No, no. It is about elektrichka Kyiv-Rivne, namely the електропоїзд підвищеного комфорту, departing from the elektrichka platforms of Kyiv-Pass., and looking exactly like a modernized elektrichka. There also Kyiv-Chernihiv and Kyiv-Kmelnytskyi to the best of my knowledge. Rapid Kharkiv-Kyiv is a Stolychnyi Expres consisting of conventional passenger cars, hauled by a loco. There is also a Kyiv-Dnipropetrovsk "Expres" - which has a auto-transferring car in addition. Ukrained 10:45, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

BTW,it wasn't me who started the Ukraine section, it was AlexPU :). Let's ask him too. Ukrained 10:55, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The seats

The phrase that sometimes three persons cannot fit on a bench is not true. Just the opposite. Sometimes four can fit. The seats were disigned to be used as beds when electric train is used as long-range train in a case of emergency (war or mass evacuation).--Nixer 18:14, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

You must have never ridden an elektrichka to say that. Yes, four children can fit the bench, but not adults. In winter, when people wear thick clothes, it may be quite hard to fit three adults, especially if there are fatty persons among them.
The elektrichkas are not designed for "emergencies". Not only they demand electrified track (remember, there are two sorts of electrification: AC and DC, and an elektrichka cannot pass a boundary between these), they also have widened body which may be incompatible with some parts of railway network. This makes them useless for all those "emergency" matters. The benches are in no sense designed for sleeping, they are too short: [1] [2] [3].--Achp ru 06:46, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
All your links do not work. Elektrichkas were designed to use with non-electric engines in emergency. Also they were painted dark green to hide them in case of war.--Nixer 09:15, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
The site parovoz.ru recently moved. Here are the updated links: [4] [5] [6] [7] [8].--Achp ru 20:03, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
Your statement about using non-electric engines to pull elektrichkas is a nonsense. Any train may be pulled by a loco, it doesn't need to be specially designed to allow for that. However, pulling an elektrichka is completely pointless. First of all, elektrichkas have a widened body compared to general standard, thus they may follow only specific routes which are specially certified to allow for elektrichkas (mostly along main railroads). Second, there are a lot of usual sleeping carriages (of long-distance trains) which are far more versatile to use on emergency occasions. Third, elektrichkas have no facilities (such as water boilers, enough toilets, sleeping shelves) which would be necessary during evacuations.--Achp ru 20:03, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
In Soviet Russia (c), who cares about facilities? Also, evacuation can only be committed before assumingly nuclear war (otherwise there is no instant blackout), since the war wouldn't give enough time. CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 15:23, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't know why are you mentioning "Soviet Russia (c)", in "Soviet Russia (c)" facilities really were cared of. The reasons were given why elektrichkas are of extremely limited use during evacuations. Pictures were provided demonstrating the width of the seats. I believe the topic to be complete.--Achp ru 12:12, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Just a reference to the popular uncyclopedic joke - apply some humor. Seriously, in case of evacuation presence of facilities is not important, and even cargo vans were used to transport people in WW2. Evacuating a city requires more resources than just long-distance carriages. The only argument is power dependance, but, then, they can be pulled by diesels.
Repeat again. Elektrichkas can only circulate on specially certified segments of network because they have an enlarged body gauge 3750 mm (габарит Т). A more general gauge, with which comply sleeping cars and DMU trains, is narrower, 3400 mm (габарит 1-Т).--Achp ru 16:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Aren't ER-9 and ER-2 3522 and 3480 mm in width respectively? Or do you mean another model? CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 22:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
P.S. I've once seen a photo of an electrichka with many people sleeping on the seats. Not more difficult than sleeping in a car. CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 12:43, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
It depends. 3750 mm is the full body width. So, a bench cannot be wider than just 1600 mm. Too short for sleeping even for me (159 cm).--Achp ru 16:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Don't forget to bend your legs... CP/M comm |Wikipedia Neutrality Project| 22:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fare evasion encouraged?

It is possible to travel for free when on the stop one exits the cart where fares are being collected and goes to one where fares have already been collected.

Is it legal to do this? If not, what is the penalty? I would hate to think that someone might get thrown in prison for using an idea that came from Wikipedia to shave off a couple of cents from an already cheap fare. 66.234.222.96 (talk) 05:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
At worst, one would have to pay the fare if caught (though it never happens in practice). Those who refuse to pay are just forced out of the train on the next stop anyway, there is no other penalty, so it is perfectly reasonable for them to perform this trick. Actually, fare collectors are routinely bribed for about a half of the price of a ticket (but it is obviously impractical if one travels far enough to meet another team of collectors). Well, at least as of 2006 in Saint Petersburg and Leningrad Oblast. Colchicum (talk) 10:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Official fare is about $2 (50 roubles).--Dojarca (talk) 17:49, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
+ the price of the ticket, which is more expensive. Colchicum (talk) 20:12, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

This should be merged to EMU article (seperate section) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bloodless (talk • contribs) 15:41, 12 May 2008 (UTC)