Talk:Eldarion

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Tonight I noticed the following sentence in this article:

"People who study the books say he probably had eight [sisters]."

There is no basis, none whatsoever, for this statement. I have been bold and deleted it.

Gildir 01:38, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] High King of the Elves?

I don't think so. The last High King was Gil-galad, who left no heir; Eldarion therefore was not his descendant. Elrond had no claim to kingship and was not called a king, but was always "Master Elrond". Galadriel was sometimes called a queen, but that was a title of respect rather than technically correct, and this is so even though she had a valid claim since she never pressed it. She was the Lady of the Galadhrim, a title she came by when the inhabitants of Lothlorien took her and Celeborn to be their Lady and Lord, but they had no king. The only Elf considered a king remaining in Middle-earth was Legolas' father Thranduil, who was not only not of High-elven descent but was not related to Eldarion in any way. Furthermore, Tolkien himself mentions no such claim on the part of Eldarion that I know of. I am therefore removing the relevant text. TCC (talk) (contribs) 03:28, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heritage

I think special interest should be paid to the fact that he is descendent of Maia, Noldor, Sindar, House of Bëor, and Half Elven. By far the richest heritage than anyone else in Middle Earth, or anywhere for that matter. - AFL

His Sindar ancestry is questionable. It would be from Celeborn, but I don't think Tolkien reached any final decision about Celeborn's origin. He may have been from the Sindar, if Galadriel met him in Doriath, or he might have been of the Calaquendi branch of Teleri, if Galadriel knew him in Aman. (I know Sil says the former, but I don't believe that's definitely canon.)

Better to say Edain than House of Bëor. Even Elros was descended from both the Houses of Hador (from Tuor through Eärendil) and Bëor (from Beren through Elwing). That's even absent the fact that his ancestors certainly married outside the royal house of Númenor.

And you forgot Vanyar. His great-grandmother Galadriel is the granddaughter of Indis. TCC (talk) (contribs) 17:07, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Of course the Calaquendi origin for Celeborn (mentioned in UT) also makes him Galadriel's first cousin... so I'm thinking that probably wouldn't have withstood closer scrutiny by Tolkien. :]

In any case, he also has Sindar ancestry from Nimloth, wife of Dior. --CBDunkerson 17:18, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

There is that... I'd forgotten Nimloth's origins. But as long as we're speculating about what Tolkien might have done, it seems to me there's a good chance he'd have come up with something other than what was published in Sil, depending on just how much he wanted Galadriel to outclass her husband. She would have either way, I guess. TCC (talk) (contribs) 18:56, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, she outclassed him in LotR itself (being described as one of 'the three mightiest of the Eldar' while he was not) and that was unlikely to change. Indeed, when that text was published there was little question but that he was Sindar... he is there named as a kinsman of Thingol and Thingol as king of the Sindar - so it was generally a foregone conclusion. Only with the release of the Silmarillion drafts and other fragments have different origins for Celeborn been considered. --CBDunkerson 19:26, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The choice?

Since he was the child of a Noldo and a Man, was he giving the choice of which heritage he wanted, like Elrond and Elros? Or were Elrond & Elros a unique situation?

He was the child of a half-Elf and a Man. But as Arwen made her choice to be counted as a member of the race of Man, Eldarion (and his sisters and heirs) did not get such a choice (compare Elros, who also chose to be counted as Man: none of his descendants got a choice of kindred).

Also, Eldarion was at the most ~1/12th part Noldo, most of his Elven ancestors were Sinda (or Telerin). -- Jordi·✆ 13:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)