User talk:Elanna-Rose

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Contents 1 Fixing Category lists 2 Welcome! 3 More sorting oddities 4 Re: Titch 5 re:Adopt me? 6 Sorting names: McX

[edit] Fixing Category lists

I ran into a category page (Category:Deaths by smoke inhalation) where one listing is sorted by first name, not last (see Jo Siffert). How can this be fixed, as there is nothing to edit on the Category edit page?

PS - if there's a "Search the Help Section" in here somewhere, you can just point me in that direction instead. (Or maybe a nicely ABC'd Category of Help pages....) Elanna-Rose 11:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Articles on category pages are sorted by the first letter of the title of the page, not the subject of the article itself. If you have more questions, please ask on my talk page. Thanks, Auroranorth 11:45, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing me in the correct direction. By comparing Gus Grissom and Jo Siffert editing, I discovered that I could either add a sorting pipe at the end of each Catergory, or add a {{DEFAULTSORT:Lastname, Firstname}} before the Category listings. Elanna-Rose 12:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome!

Hello Elanna-Rose! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you you need any help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement.

Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Happy editing! Gogo Dodo 06:20, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More sorting oddities

I've noticed that you've also stumbled across more sorting oddities. There are some cultures where the "last name" is not the family name. Wikipedia biography articles are to be sorted on family name, if there is one, so sometimes sorting on the last name is wrong. The particular article I noticed was an Icelandic biography; most contemporary Icelandic people and historical Scandinavian people do not have a family name, but have a patronymic (or matronymic) as the final name; something ending in -son or -dottir. We sort on the first name in these cases, not on the description, "son of" or "daugter of". A contemporary example is the singer Bjork; that's her complete name, not a stage name. There are other cultures which use patronymics commonly, Ethopia comes to mind. Also, in most southeast asia, family name is usually given first and personal name last, for example, in Mao Zedong, the surname or family name is "Mao" and that is what should be sorted on. However, modern Japanese names are commonly put in western order when translated, and sometimes but less commonly Chinese names from Hong Kong are presented in westernized form, so you have to be careful. Finally, there is Iberian-style names (Spanish/Portugese). In full formal names, Iberian-derived cultures often end names with "father's family name" "mother's family name", and sorting is on "father's family name. However, we often do not have full names; sometimes the mother's name is dropped. For example, Francisco Franco's full name is Francisco Paulino Hermenegildo Teódulo Franco Bahamonde; Franco is his family name or surname and that's what we sort on. However, for Antonio Banderas, the fullname is José Antonio Domínguez Banderas, but he has adopted his mother's name as his stage name, we sort on the widely known Banderas, not the obscure Domínguez.

There are a lot of landmines when it comes to sorting; we all just do our best. I've sorted many thousands of articles and still get corrected from time to time, stumbling on new exceptions.

Good luck, keep up the good work. Studerby 17:19, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Titch

Re your message: You didn't bug the wrong editor. =) I've never heard of the term, but I took a look at what you wrote on the Talk page and decided to be bold and make the article a redirect. I left an explanation on Talk:Titch. -- Gogo Dodo 22:30, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] re:Adopt me?

Consider yourself adopted! If you ever have any questions, feel free to ask on my talk page. Make sure to check back on my talk page for answers to your questions, as thats where I tend to respond to someone :) — Moe ε 23:40, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sorting names: McX

Hi Elanna, I see that you have changed the indexing of surnames of people called McX. Where they hve been indexed as Macx, you have changed it to Mcx: [1], [2], [3], [4]

The reason given in one edit is "per Wikipedia:Categorization of people#Ordering_names_in_a_category", however I don't see any such guidance in that guideline. There was a discussion on the talkpage, but no consensus was reached (see Wikipedia talk:Categorization of people#Ordering_of_Mac.2C_Mc_and_M.27). I'm sure that this was a good faith mistake, but please don't go changing indexing on the basis of a guideline point which isn't in the guideline. Thanks --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 03:01, 1 January 2008 (UTC)