Talk:El Cerrito, Contra Costa County, California

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 It is requested that a photograph or photographs be included in this article to improve its quality.

Wikipedians in Contra Costa County, California may be able to help!
The Free Image Search Tool (FIST) may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Contents

[edit] Opening comments

Wondering how to edit this U.S. City Entry?
The WikiProject U.S. Cities standards might help.

[edit] Title

This article's title should be El Cerrito, California, and the El Cerrito in riverside county should be El Cerrito, Riverside County, California the same way the city is Mountain View, California and the unincorprated area is Mountain View, Contra Costa County, CaliforniaCholgatalK! 00:44, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Why should it be this? Is one El Cerrito, California (there seems to be at least three: in Contra Costa, Riverside, and San Diego) significantly better known than all others? What's the evidence that it is? Andrewa 13:56, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
not better, but the actual invcorporated city should have preferance as does Mountain View (city). The others are a small neighborhood and a small unincorporated area near Ontario, California. The most common El Cerrito, California should have preferance to not need the county in its name, I mean could you imagane a Los Angeles, Los Angeles County, California article or a San Francisco, San Francisco County, California title just because there are neighborhoods or subdivisions or unincorporated areas with the same name?CholgatalK! 05:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
You seem to be saying that this El Cerrito is better known than the others (similarly to San Franciso), but in your first statement you seem to explicitly deny that you think this. It matters. If your first statement {not better} is correct, then refer to WP:NC and WP:DAB and I think you'll see that the name should stay as it is. Andrewa 13:39, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, there are in fact three El Cerrito in California. El Cerrito, Riverside County, California and El Cerrito, San Diego, California being the other two. I am not saying I disagree with this move, but you do have to consider the confusion this move would cause if it is successful. Chris! my talk 23:42, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

The example of Mountain View is actually a good one. For the city, it is called Mountain View, California. And census-designated place, it is called Mountain View, Contra Costa County, California. Now it seems to me that for CDPs, the name usually include the name of of the county. So according to this example, this move seems to work out. As El Cerrito, Riverside County, California is a CDP, it should remained its current name. El Cerrito, San Diego, California is a neighborhood of San Diego, and the current name should remained as well. Chris! my talk 23:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I just did a quick search on Google and Yelp for businesses/organizations located in the Riverside County El Cerrito, to try to get an idea of how strong the local identity was. It turns out that every single business I looked at located within the CDP gives their address as "Corona, California". I couldn't find a single example of "El Cerrito, California", besides businesses that were actually in Contra Costa County and placed in the wrong location on the map. What looks like the main shopping center within the CDP is named "The Crossings at Corona." The address of the "El Cerrito Library", in the middle of the CDP, is "7581 Rudell Road, Corona 92881".

It seems clear that the Riverside County El Cerrito barely exists outside of the census bureau's data, and is nowhere near as prominent as the actual city of El Cerrito. While the city is not very big, it is several times larger than the CDP. It's located near the center of a major metropolitan area, has two BART stations with its name, an actual government, history, and identity.

Giving the same prominence to the two places might cause more confusion than moving this article. Right now, it looks like most, if not all of the wikilinks that link directly to El Cerrito, California are referring to the city. I doubt most people are even aware that there are any other places, and many don't know which county the city is located in, or the difference between cities and CDPs. -Nogood 08:11, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.


"There is only one city in California named "El Cerrito." While the practice of using the county name to disambiguate multiple places with the same name might make sense for other parts of the United States, in California there can only be one city with any given name, and there are no overlapping municipal entities like townships, villages, etc (only cities and unincorporated parts of counties). The other El Cerritos are an unincorporated census designated place and a neighborhood of San Diego. —Nogood 08:26, 10 August 2007 (UTC)"

This is a copy of a comment by User:Nogood from the official Wikipedia:Requested moves page. Chris! my talk 23:58, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
  • Oppose. No case has been made that the city is the common use of the unqualified name, in fact it is denied (above) that this is the case. Andrewa 14:47, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Support According to local convention (The Mountain View example), this move is entirely legitimate to distinguish between a CDPs and a city. As far as common use is concern, this move is not trying to assert which usage is more common, but rather it is trying to follow local convention currently in used. Chris! my talk 20:53, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Support (nominator): There is only one city with this name in California, therefore additional disambiguation should not be required. The other places with the same name have nowhere near the same prominence, and it appears are not even commonly called "El Cerrito, California." The current setup causes unnecessary confusion. -Nogood 05:10, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Any additional comments:

If this move is ultimately denied, then more discussion is required regarding a possible move on Mountain View. Chris! my talk 20:57, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Can you be specific about the local convention to which you refer above? Do you mean a Wikipedia naming convention, and if so which one? Or, is this something about the way Californians speak and/or write the name? Either is relevant, but it's hard to assess the validity of this claim unless you can be more specific. Andrewa 02:10, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

A local convention doesn't have to a wikipedia naming convention. It is just the way we name article here in the Bay Area (again the Mountain View example). And if you recalled, that is also why the Union Square, San Francisco -> Union Square (San Francisco) move doesn't work out. Besides a quick google test of El Cerrito, California here shows clearly that the city is more common than the other El Cerrito elsewhere in California. Now based on WP:NC, this move is legitimate. Chris! my talk 20:37, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Agree about the meaning of local convention, that's exactly what I was asking, thank you.
Disagree that the move is legitimate, or based on WP:NC. Andrewa 03:40, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. --Stemonitis 12:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)