User talk:EisenKnoechel

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[edit] Front Mission 1st

Hey Eisen, I saw the comment you made about Driscoll capturing Karen at Grey Rock hospital.

Just wanted to clarify a few things. In the OCU story, there isn't too much talk about what happened to Karen--just that you're trying to find her.

When Hans finds out information about Karen (right before mission 5, in a side-scene with Meihua), Nirvana institute comes up. Note that this is BEFORE she was "captured" from Grey Rock.

Though Meihua never says Karen had mentioned Nirvana, Hans' findings suggest she had already been tied to Nirvana in some fashion. In one of the early missions on the UCS side, Kevin Greenfield arrives at the Larcus factory right before Driscoll destroys it. There, a prisoner is retrieved, and Kevin states that the prisoner is badly wounded and needs medical attention.

Further, in the OCU side, Hans states in the end of a mission (I believe Mission 14... the mission where you get back Yeehin), that Karen was transferred to Grey Rock. Thus suggesting that after being captured at Larcus she was transferred to Grey Rock, to recuperate so she could be used in Driscoll's B-Device.

I'm already working on getting citations for this. Specifically when I finish this OCU play through, I'm going to play UCS side again and take video or snapshots. If you wanna bounce ideas off me, that'd be great. Maybe I'm just missing something really important, but I've been playing Front Mission 1st almost nonstop since its American DS release.

~~Coyote (talk) 15:43, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Makes sense, but there is one important question that bugs me about that. Why would Karen be transfered to a hospital that is inside OCU territory by the Nirvana Institute, a USN (UCS) controlled organization? (though in reality, the Nirvana Institute and the PMO are a front belonging to Sakata Industries and Zaftra) I would question the reasoning of why Driscoll and the Nirvana Institute would place an injured test subject inside an OCU hospital, then attack Greystone just to pick up that soldier that they could have just put in any other hospital on Huffman Island, including ones under USN control. IMO, I think Driscoll attacked Greystone to capture all the injured soldiers for use in the B-Devices that you have to fight in Mission 23. Karen just happened to be at that hospital. I have to confess, though, that I have not finished the USN (UCS) campaign yet, so I lack any information about that scenario at this time. EisenKnoechel (talk) 06:28, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
You do have a good point. Though I don't really think he ::attacked:: Grey Rock at all. I think he only went there to pick up the "materials". After he retrieved the materials (probably illegally, black market, under-cover ops, etc), he probably needed to dispose of all the evidence. That or perhaps he saw the Canyon Crows and felt the need to dispense of any possible leads to Nirvana? Or maybe he even wanted to bring Karen and other "materials" to Grey Rock, inside OCU territory, so that it LOOKED like a USN attack to government and media. If that's the case, then it would be brushed off as part of the war and cover up for Sakata, Zaftra, and Nirvana. Remember, Olson was also collaborating with Driscoll for material acquisition. Unfortunately, Driscoll's motives were left unclear in the storyline... But even so, the Larcus Incident was staged from the beginning. All the Canyon Crows under Olson's authority were supposed to become materials for B-Devices, speaking of these materials being of great prowess but with a tendency toward insubordination. Olson knew a lot of Lloyd's background--including Karen--and so did Driscoll. I have no doubts that Driscoll used Karen as a pawn to get to Lloyd (Roid) and the Canyon Crows thus acquiring even more materials. Lloyd was driven by his search for and eventually his vengeance for Karen. Driscoll could have easily planted Karen in an OCU hospital to give Lloyd a lead. When Lloyd arrived (under Olson's guidance), there were USN troops there waiting for them. Thus he would in turn receive more battle experience (along with the other Crows), making them all better candidates for B-Devices. This is obviously a lot of conjecture, but I do think the storyline lends to a full staging of the war and clear ulterior motives: to attain the Crows as materials. This conversation is really fun... I'm quite enjoying wrapping my head around this.
~~Coyote (talk) 20:52, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I also like to ponder the exact circumstances of videogames that leave open ends to them. I only became a fan of the Front Mission series about 3 years ago and have notice the many loose ends that the series has left. Your theory I find very plausible, so at any rate, if you find citations that give credit to any theories, I whole heartedly agree on adding the information to the Front Mission article. EisenKnoechel (talk) 04:31, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough. I don't know if I'll be able to attain specific citations that will prove Driscoll's motives or whether she was taken to Grey Rock by OCU or USN forces, since as you said, the game has a lot of open ends. It's a great story, but anyone who thinks about the storyline and questions it will be left with a lot of why's and how's. Oh well... I'll be sure to inform you first about the citations, if I'm able to get any. =) One trivial piece of information I'm reading off my DS right now though is Gentz's information on Larcus. (Mission 24)

Gentz: These are the U.C.S.--no, Sakata's original B-device factory. The battle that took place here triggered the war. The truth is...it was all staged.

Lloyd: What!?

Gentz: Sakata arranged it. They wanted to test their B-device prototype in actual combat. Huffman Island fit the bill perfectly. Both the O.C.U. and U.C.S. were looking for any excuse to start a war.

Merry Christmas, Eisen!
~~Coyote (talk) 20:48, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Eisen, I've done up a fair bit of updating and standardising the content in the List of Front Mission characters article (such as making the U.C.S. and U.S.N. shorthands more standardised across the article). How'd you like it? Pasonia (talk) 08:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC)