User talk:Ehud Lesar
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[edit] arbcom
Your name has been listed in this arbcom: [1]Hajji Piruz 03:26, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2
Hello,
An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2/Evidence. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, - Penwhale | Blast him / Follow his steps 16:40, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Hey man
You edit like he does, in a manner that is surprisingly the same. - Francis Tyers · 06:05, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
- Francis, I can't do anything if a manner or a style seems the same. That way you would then have to check hundreds of users whose manners seem the same. Ehud 07:17, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Shalom Ehud ,while travelling along Wikipedia ,I have found the article about Azeri in Waffen SS. First this “article” should be totally rewrited .Full of errors and approximations. One example Thank you Grandmaster. These picture actually is a picture of Armenian SS soldiers in Greece. I removed the picture. Ehud 06:08, 13 August 2007 (UTC) Thank you Grandmaster, lets add the picture to Armenian SS article. because Ar man from panaryan.com forum is notorious for his credibility. VartanM 07:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC) I don’t really think it should be moved anywhere, it is just the credibility of online sources that provide various descriptions of the same two pictures is not that good, therefore both should not be used here. Grandmaster 07:33, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
First this picture is really the only one ( till now)of the I/III Aserbaidschanisch Bataillon in Warsaw. You can check it there: http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/niemcy%20_w_powstaniu_warszaws2.htm#reck Second http://www.panaryan.com/forum/ is a f…. racist and antijewish garbage can. Most of those pictures belongs to Eduard Abramian , a respected Armenian historian;I am going to contact him to see if he knows that his collection is used without permission. Some of the pics have wrong index linking ,there is even 2 or 3 pics of azerbaidjan soldiers .About Bergmann’s some of the pics are from Georgians and probably Azeris .Etc Etc… The grandmaster seems to be lost into this swamp. I will contact him when he will be back I just rewrote the introduction for now ,we will see the rest later Zulfugar Zulfugar 11:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] ASTONISHING STUFF
Shalom Ehud ,while travelling along Wikipedia ,I have found the article about Azeri in Waffen SS. First this “article” should be totally rewrited .Full of errors and approximations. One example Thank you Grandmaster. These picture actually is a picture of Armenian SS soldiers in Greece. I removed the picture. Ehud 06:08, 13 August 2007 (UTC) Thank you Grandmaster, lets add the picture to Armenian SS article. because Ar man from panaryan.com forum is notorious for his credibility. VartanM 07:14, 13 August 2007 (UTC) I don’t really think it should be moved anywhere, it is just the credibility of online sources that provide various descriptions of the same two pictures is not that good, therefore both should not be used here. Grandmaster 07:33, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
First this picture is really the only one ( till now)of the I/III Aserbaidschanisch Bataillon in Warsaw. You can check it there: http://wilk.wpk.p.lodz.pl/~whatfor/niemcy%20_w_powstaniu_warszaws2.htm#reck Second http://www.panaryan.com/forum/ is a f…. racist and antijewish garbage can. Most of those pictures belongs to Eduard Abramian , a respected Armenian historian;I am going to contact him to see if he knows that his collection is used without permission. Some of the pics have wrong index linking ,there is even 2 or 3 pics of azerbaidjan soldiers .About Bergmann’s some of the pics are from Georgians and probably Azeris .Etc Etc… The grandmaster seems to be lost into this swamp. I will contact him when he will be back I just rewrote the introduction for now ,we will see the rest later Zulfugar Zulfugar 12:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
- Zulfugar, thank you for your research and some changes in the article. I also appreciate the note above. However, I would tend to disagree with you on the picture issue. The picture appears on several websites linking the soldiers on it to both Armenian and Azerbaijani units. Therefore, no matter if the website is Armenian or not, we can't use the image since it has no proof of the soldiers being Azerbaijanis. Pictures from state archives would have helped. Unfortunately, we don't have them available. Ehud 17:22, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 Closed
The above named arbitration case in which you were named as a party has closed. The remedy is as follows: The remedies of revert limitations (formerly revert parole), including the limitation of 1 revert per week, civility supervision (formerly civility parole) and supervised editing (formerly probation) that were put in place at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan shall apply to any editor who edits articles which relate to Armenia-Azerbaijan and related ethnic conflicts in an aggressive point of view manner marked by incivility. Before any penalty is applied, a warning placed on the editor's user talk page by an administrator shall serve as notice to the user that these remedies apply to them.
You may view the full case decisions here.
For the Arbitration Committee, - Penwhale | Blast him / Follow his steps 00:33, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Your recent edits
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button 
located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 05:18, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Revert parole
Per the remedies contained in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2, I'm limiting you to one revert per page per week, excepting obvious vandalism. Further, you are required to discuss any content reversions on the page's talk page. This will apply for six months. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 19:44, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] FYI: ArbCom Armenia-Azerbaijan 3 case
Please see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Armenia-Azerbaijan 3. -- Cat chi? 18:05, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
- I don't think the issue is being investigated thoroughly. All that is done is clicking on the links provided by users Fedayee, Vartan, which is exactly how they wanted you to see it: only the contributions which can be connected to their claims. This is Wikipedia and every second it's being edited, Azerbaijani-Armenian articles are being edited every 10 minutes. That doesn't mean all users are related, does it? Azerbaijani-Armenian articles have more or less same claims, views, stances. It doesn't mean that several users having the same or near point of view are the same user(s) or their socks, does it? I understand you define the word "coincidence" as a strong term in this matter, but try looking through my contributions, if needed every one of them, and then also please investigate the accussing parties' contributions. You will see how "coincidental" they happen to be. Ehud (talk) 05:24, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Arbitration
Hi. Please be aware of Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Ehud Lesar arbitration case. Thanks. Grandmaster (talk) 07:21, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
- Hello, I am posting the whole statement message below according to Daniel’s note here [2].
I got User:Grandmaster's consent for using his arguments here [3] as the basis for my statement with my response. I have addressed only the points out of the link above which only relate to me.
[edit] Re: Ehud and Adil, same positions and ideologies
Statement by Fedayee and/or VartanM
First of all, Ehud claims to be Ashkenazi, according to The Lesar Name in History: ASIN: B000W1P5OS, it is Slovenian, and its uses as a Jewish last name is from Iberian and for Sephardic, not Ashkenazi Jews. Sephardim.com claims it is Sephardic too
Reply by Grandmaster
As far as I know, Ehud never claimed that he contributes to Wikipedia under his real name, so any attempts at tracing his wiki name to real life cannot be a proof of sock puppetry.
My response
Very nice analysis about the name Lesar, but as stated earlier by User:Grandmaster, this has nothing to do with my work in Wikipedia and especially nothing to do with accusations of me being a sockpuppet of User:AdilBaguirov.
First of all, as far as I know, Wikipedia respects privacy of its users and does not require anyone to indicate their names.
Secondly, the use of family name Lesar has its own reasons. One can use it because he or she admires the name or a certain personality from the family; one can use it because he has a friend from a particular family; one can use it without any reasons of knowledge about Lesar family tree.
You can look at the examples among Armenian users many of which are the very accusers of me name:
User:VartanM – Does his user name mean or imply that he is the Saint Vartan (Vartan Mamikonian) Vartan Mamikonian or Vartan Malakian? Does that mean he is Vartan Oskanian disguised? Or does it mean he is any Armenian whose name is Vartan? By this logic, every Vartan admitted to Wikipedia should have been and should be banned as a sockpuppet of current or previous users with the same name. As far as I understand it can be his first name and last name initial, or any of the above names he’s related to by his admiration, heritage or ethnic ties.
User:MarshallBagramyan – Does his user name mean or imply that he is Marshal Hovhannes Bagramyan? Or maybe George Marshall Or does it mean he’s a Marshall per se?
User:TigranTheGreat – Does his user name mean or imply that he is Tigranes the Great?
As far as I understand it can be his any of the above names he’s related to by his admiration, heritage or ethnic ties.
User:Andranikpasha - Does his user name mean or imply that he is Andranik Toros Ozanian?
User:Fedayee - Does his user name mean or imply that he in fact is a fedayee?
He and others can very much be admiring the names, the actions, the biographies of those individuals. Same applies to the first name Ehud. I reckon, there is no need to analyze the name “Ehud”.
However, that does not mean my last name is not Lesar. I have the same rights as Armenian and any other users above. I never implied or never mentioned anywhere what my name in life is and never will. This is my right as a Wikipedia editor.
Third, not a single person can doubt my ethnic background. If I stated I was an [Ashkenazi Jew], that means I am and am proud of it. Stating on Wikipedia user page that I am an Ashkenazi Jew does not mean I am only 100% Ashkenazi. I may have [Sephardic] relatives/blood, I may have [Azeri] relatives/blood, I may have [Russian] relatives/blood. Therefore, it is not up to any user including Fedayee, Vartan, Eupator to make attacks on my ethnic background. I have not and will not indicate proportions of my ethnicity just because these users accuse me of being a sockpuppet. Wikipedia respects these right of a user and I am one of them.
Statement by Fedayee and/or VartanM
Ehud Lesar, who claims to be a Jew, supports positions of the extreme nationalists in Azerbaijan and also, an exclusively Adil myth on Sevan (located in the republic of Armenia).
Reply by Grandmaster
Azerbaijan has a large Jewish community, and many Azerbaijani citizens of Jewish origin fought at Karabakh war, such as Albert Agarunov. And there's no "exclusively Adil myth on Sevan".
My response
As stated already by user Grandmaster, Azerbaijan is home to a large Jewish community which enjoys, even more so, excellent rights as citizens of Azerbaijan. Jews residing in Azerbaijan are very loyal to their country. They have fought in big numbers during Karabakh war; they have contributed to regional and state economy; they have developed intergovernmental and intercultural ties with the state of Israel; and most importantly, they are a part and will always be a part of History of Azerbaija. What was presented in Fedayee’s “evidence” is not exclusive to user AdilBaguirov. Any current or previous citizen of Azerbaijan or any non-citizen of Azerbaijan familiar with history of Azerbaijan and Caucasus is aware of the history of Geycha/Sevan, which is currently a part of present day Republic of Armenia.
Statement by Fedayee and/or VartanM
If we search on talkpages, we find that only Adil has ever called Sevan, Geycha.
Reply by Grandmaster
I would advise you to take a look at Talk:Lake Sevan. The name of Geycha was used there since 2005, long before Adil joined Wikipedia. Moreover, it is included in the article about the lake, and guess who included it there? Khoikhoi, the blocking admin: [4]
My response
Please follow the link, Grandmaster provided. The fact that user AdilBaguirov had once or twice or multiple times called Sevan Geycha does not signify and make it exclusive to him. As well, the spelling Geycha, as stated by me and any other users who understand the previous Cyrillic and current Latin alphabet of Azerbaijani language, will know the difference between Gokcha, Goycha and Geycha. Again, the word “Gokcha” is transliterated from Russian Гёкча, as well as “Goycha” and “Geycha” from Azerbaijani Гөйча (previous Cyrillic alphabet) or Göyçə (current Latin alphabet). Russian letter “ё” and Azerbaijani letter “ö” are very similar in pronunciation in this case. Same applies to the town in central Azerbaijan, Geokchay/Goychay/Geychay Please see here . In Russian transliteration from Azerbaijani it is Геокчай, while in transliteration from Russian into English “Geokchay”, and transliteration from Azeri “Гёйчай” (previous Cyrillic alphabet) and “Göyçay” (current Latin alphabet) into English it is Goychay or Geychay. Same with Mingechevir (Mingəçevir) with Russian transliteration Мингечаур (spelled in English as Mingechaur); Baku with Russian “Баку” (Baku) and Azeri “Bakı” and so on and so forth.
Statement by Fedayee and/or VartanM
Ehud considers what happened in Khojali as genocide and calls it extermination. Now, SURPRISE SURPRISE, who calls it genocide? A few ultra-nationalist Azerbaijanis and one of the most known, Adil Baguirov.
Reply by Grandmaster
Another baseless argument. It is not only "Azerbaijani nationalists" and certainly not only Adil and Ehud who referred to the Khojaly massacre as genocide. See Khojaly_massacre#International_reaction:
| “ | In Written Declaration No. 324, members of the PACE from Albania, Azerbaijan, Turkey and the United Kingdom, along with individual members from Bulgaria, Luxembourg, Macedonia and Norway stated that "On 26 February 1992, Armenians massacred the whole population of Khodjaly and fully destroyed the city", and called on the Assembly to recognize the massacre in Khojaly as part of "genocide perpetrated by Armenians against the Azerbaijani population". [5] | ” |
My response
There is no need to go into more detail on this one. Grandmaster has already mentioned in his argument how Khojaly events are considered a genocide.
Moreover, I am willing to elaborate more on Fedayee’s accusations here:
In the same diff, we see Algeria included; it is known that the strongest adherents to the thesis of an Algerian genocide aren't even the Algerians but the Turks, the lobbyists, and the newspaper which has various issues raising it in the Turkish weekly, which Adil Baguirov is a contributor of. The Jews are also one of the strongest opposers of the claim that there was genocide in Algeria because the Jews were one of the groups who suffered the most during the Oran massacre and the subsequent crimes… intimidations which prompted them to nearly entirely leave Algeria. And witness how in his list the Armenian example is missing… in fact Ehud, just like Adil, denies the Armenian genocide: but I do condemn any Turk who committed massacres of Armenian civilians as much as I condemn any Armenian who committed the same acts on Turkish civilians 100 years ago. Ehud is a supporter of the ridiculous “both sided massacre” revisionist claim which is maintained by those who deny the Armenian Genocide and mainly supported in the West by Justin McCarthy, whose article the socks of Adil have also edited.
Yes, I denounce any mass killings, including the one in Algeria. Fedayee is talking about Jews as someone who is the father of Jewish nation and talks on its behalf. Not only Jews do but anyone would acknowledge mass killings that are proven and well documented as genocide, including the Holocaust. I get the feeling that Fedayee has stereotypes of Jews and is not well aware of Jewish sentiments on many issues. In this case, I recommend you watch Peace Propaganda and the Promised land, produced by Jews and available on google videos. Well, is Fedayee going to claim that the producers and speakers in the documentary are Arab sockpuppets or rather “fakers” as well? Everybody has a personal opinion and stance.
Statement by Fedayee
Ehud Lesar’s registration date coincides with one event: the confirmation that AdilBaguirov will be banned.
Reply by Grandmaster
Not true. The account of Ehud was created on 28 March 2007, and Adil was banned on 11 April 2007. Adil’s ban was proposed on 23 March, [6] along with bans of a number of other users, including some of those who provide evidence on Ehud. In the end only 3 users were banned for the period of 1 year, i.e. Adil, Artaxiad and Fadix. It was not a few hours difference, as Fedayee claims. On 28 March it was not clear whether Adil would be banned or not, this is the arbcom page as of 28 March 2007. [7] As one can see, Adil was almost in the same situation as Eupator and Fedayee, and it was not clear who would eventually get banned. Only half of arbitrators voted by that time. So it is clearly not like some claim “Ehud Lesar registered a couple of hours after it was obvious that Adil Baguirov will be banned”.
My response
Grandmaster has already addressed the issue of my registration and time difference. However, I would like to make an important point. The co-relation of dates does not signify anything. I understand that it may raise suspicions at some point of arbitration in an editors lifetime on Wikipedia, but this is really not the fault of the user when he registers. Imagine, an unrelated to anyone user discovers Wikipedia, and wants to start editing. How would he ever know when to register or when to not register? He doesn’t know if there is a User:AdilBaguirov and if he was or was not to be banned. Likewise, he doesn’t know any editor, neither Azerbaijani nor Armenian. When do you think he can register not to raise suspicions some time in the future. Moreover, it’s been several months since March 2007 now. How come Armenian users have not "determined" I was a sockpuppet of anyone up until now, or the end of last year? They only started doing it when I became more active in article editing and when their edits were proven wrong. I also understand that the suspicions of two or more various users starting an account in Wikipedia may be justified but only after it’s been proven that they use the same IP, or other way, but definitely not after selective so called “evidence” from Fedayee who only wanted admins to see what he wanted them to see. If admins understand that my permanent residence is in the state of Texas unlike that of Adil Baguirov, everything will be clear. I also understand that Armenian users have indicated numerous times by now that Adil Baguirov lives in Washington DC and Texas, but it is easy to check for admins. All they have to do is to contact Adil Baguirov and make sure he is in DC and then check my IP from which I have edited and will edit, and which is located in Texas and Texas only.
[edit] Promoting Adil
Statement by VartanM
You're free to be either obsessed with or pretty much obviously impressed by him, but please stop dragging me into "being" someone I am not just NOT. [8] Here, Ehud Lesar, is claiming that another member is obviously impressed by Adil who thinks a lobbyist who acts as an ambassador of Azerbaijan in the United States is someone to be impressed about. He repeated this more recently: I must say that it's rather positive that you're so impressed by Adil Bagirov; so impressed that you happen to follow his life cycle, but I think you should free your mind from the name Ehud Lesar. [9] Ehud knows that we know he is Adil, this comment is the same sort of sarcasm Adil or his other socks were using.
Reply by Grandmaster
This section is completely absurd. The fact that Ehud was aware of who Adil was cannot be a proof that he is Adil himself. Moreover, it is interesting that some Armenian users who joined Wikipedia in November 2007 are well aware who Adil is, despite Adil being banned in April 2007. For example, this is a post by User:Steelmate: [10] Does the fact of Steelmate's awareness of Adil's persona prove that Steelmate is a sock?
My response
I agree with Grandmaster. I AM aware of who Adil Baguirov is by now, but none of my statements on talk pages, as presented by user Fedayee and Vartan imply that I promote or more to the point, know Adil Baguirov. I have said and am saying it again: Armenian users accusing me, ARE obviously impressed by user Adil Baguirov that they constantly follow his name, obviously through one of the search engines. One might wonder, why Fedayee so extensively searches information on his name, his website and even his daily/weekly/monthly life. Logically, it is up to individuals themselves who they choose to be impressed by, but this should not be related to me and my work in Wikipedia just because I might be of discomfort to Armenian user as an editor.
[edit] Re: Adil and Ehud live in the same geographic location
Statement by Fedayee and/or VartanM
From his own admission Ehud Lesar lives in Texas not unlike Adil who splits his time between Washington, D.C. and Houston, Texas, where he works for an international energy consulting firm.
Reply by Grandmaster
Ehud from his own words is permanently located in Texas, and Adil travels to TX only occasionally. I think it would be fairly easy for any cu to demonstrate that Ehud's contributions were from TX only, as Ehud claims. Texas is a large US state with a population of over 20 million, it is unlikely that Adil is the only person there interested in Azerbaijan related topics. If we use geographic location as a basis for ban, we should ban all Armenian users contributing from California. As one can see, all the evidence provided by Fedayee is very superficial and proves nothing at all, while checkuser disproves any relation between Adil and Ehud. It is however strange that some admins consider it a sufficient basis for a permanent ban of a wikipedia editor.
My response
I believe I have already answered this claim, but I’d like to reiterate: it is pretty easy for admins, I think, to determine what IP I was editing from, what days, and even now, and the rest can be discovered possibly via contacting Adil Baguirov. Texas IS a big state with a large population and I’ll never ask permission from anyone, including users Fedayee, VartanM, Eupator, Steelmate and Adil Baguirov for that matter, when and where to register my account, when to edit and what to edit. I believe I have never violated ANY of Wikipedia rules, and have contributed my time and knowledge into Wikipedia projects.
I was only placed on revert parole by admin Moreschi for 6 months and did not actively object the decision [11] just because I understand the hard work of administrators and their neutrality on the issue.
[edit] CONCLUSION AND A REQUEST
A thorough investigation of this case will be much appreciated. I will be waiting for results so that I can continue with my contributions for Wikipedia project. In any case, I would much appreciate if I am unbanned so that I can respond to baseless accusations and cooperate with administrators who will be investigating the case. Thank you Ehud (talk) 19:31, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Reply to Nishkid64's comment
Nishkid wrote here [12]: In the latter half of the discussion, it appears that Grandmaster and Atabek have now hinted that Ehud Lesar's real name is not "Ehud Lesar", as he had claimed many times before on-wiki and through e-mail.
Where have I never claimed that my real name is or is not Ehud Lesar? I request Nishkid64 provides either any "on-wiki" or "through email" or even google chat conversation where I have supposedly claimed my real name was Ehud Lesar. I have all email communication and google chat with Nishkid64 and can present it for verification purposes Ehud (talk) 06:51, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ehud Lesar
An Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ehud Lesar/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ehud Lesar/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, — Rlevse • Talk • 02:54, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Limited unblock
I have unblocked this account to allow Ehud Lesar to participate in the pending arbitration case. You may present evidence at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ehud Lesar/Evidence. Please limit your editing to the arbitration-related pages until the case is resolved or otherwise instructed by the arbitrators. Newyorkbrad (talk) 18:36, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ehud Lesar
This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The indefinite block on Ehud Lesar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log) is hereby reversed as it has not been demonstrated that he is a sockpuppet of AdilBaguirov (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · block user · block log). Necessary actions will be performed by an arbitrator. The sockpuppetry accusations are found to have been made in good faith. On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, — Rlevse • Talk • 22:57, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
- Congrats on your final vindication, Ehud [13]. I hope you engage in more constructive edits in future. Atabek (talk) 19:32, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
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- Congrats, Ehud. Truth finally prevailed. Grandmaster (talk) 21:36, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
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