Talk:Egyptian hieroglyphs

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    Hi guys, i was researching on Egypt and thought that this was a great site and im glad that we can have our own input. Im interested in hieroglyphs and the egyptian language and think it is very interesting. Thanks for all your help.

    For greatimages on the map of Egypt: go to [1]

    --203.10.121.82 04:31, 5 May 2005 (UTC)T.m Jones

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    [edit] Automatic peerreview

    The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

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      • is considered
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    You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Markh 12:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

    [edit] Yogh (ȝ)

    Obviously this is not the correct character to use for Egyptological alef. That character will be in Unicode 5.1. Should we keep yogh without comment until later? Evertype 07:01, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

    Use

    G1

    Rktect 22:31, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Stele

    the word is spelt stele not stela

    From dictionary.com ... "ste·la (stl)pl. steles, also ste·lae (-l) An upright stone or slab with an inscribed or sculptured surface, used as a monument or as a commemorative tablet in the face of a building."

    bv,bvmnbvmbn

    [edit] Notes

    Those three notes to a Tour Guide ... with all that had been written on hieroglyphs, to give references to that? — Just an opinion.--Barbatus 04:12, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Where did 'o' originate?

    Just a question... I've heard reconstructed Egyptian on a number of occasions and there always seems to be an 'o' pronounced here and there. Since there is no 'o' in Ancient Egyptian, how do we know when to pronounce it? Such as names like Sobek or Poker (and later, Osiris), when was it decided to pronounce them this way and what was the explanation?84.250.246.42 09:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

    In the New Kingdom many new glyphs were developed. It was one of the clues Champoleon used in deciphering Ptolomy and Cleopatra.Rktect 22:29, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
    There must have been the 'o' sound in Ancient Egyptian they just did not write down vowels because they do not add much to the meaning of a word as you will see. Unfrtntly bth Ptlmy nd Clptr r Grk wrds so not very good examples and Osiris was written Wsir in Egyptian. I think much of the pronouciation comes from studying the Coptic language and ancient foreign languages which mention Egyptian names. Keith Hazell 22:50, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
    In Egyptian there is a
    G43
    "U" which comes into use as
    Z7
    in the Ninth dynasty of Egypt and becomes common in the Eighteenth dynasty of Egypt under Akhenaten.
    see also the
    G44
    "W" sound, but the "O" sound is Greek. See Gardiner, "Egyptian Grammar", p 27 Rktect 12:57, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
    As a related question there is Egyptian
    N35
    refered to on page 27 as equivalent to Greek lambda, but in the Sign list as nt. I'm not sure if the leo in Cleopatra comes forth from some variant of
    E23
    as in /rw/ > rule > cruel > el Rktect 12:57, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Format Error

    Please see the following section: Writing System→Phonetic compliments. After a number of hieroglyphs (and their explanation), the paragraph says

    Finally, it sometimes happens that the pronunciation of words might be changed because of their connection to ...

    Then, there is a major grammar/structure error in the beginning of the next paragraph. It starts as follows:

    nouns; they are always accompanied by a mute vertical stroke indicating ...

    I am unsure as to how to rectify the error. My first impression is to take nouns and make it a level 4 heading, then continue as it is.—Red Baron 21:42, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

    Thanks for spotting that - it was ancient vandalism, I have replaced the missing sections and it looks a little better now. Cheers Markh 08:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] determinative=ideograph?

    Is it a convention to call a determinative "ideograph" in the field of Egyptology? pls revert my edits if it is so. But I feel that the very appearance of the word "ideograph" in the article could lead the readers astray. Cheers.--K.C. Tang 04:31, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] a must read

    http://www.magtudin.org/Origin%20I.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.21.25.155 (talk) 00:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC).

    [edit] Which bird is that?

    Greetings,

    Do you happen to know which bird is that?

    G31

    Could it be a Shoebill? According to Encyclopedia Aarabiah the image of this bird was engraved on the walls of ancient Egyptian temples. Could you elaborate on this matter? Lior 07:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

    This glyph corresponds to the mythological bennu. It is believed to be based on a type of heron. — Zerida 19:05, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
    its listed as G31 Gardiner p 470 Heron, det in bnu (bynw) Phoenix, a very similar bird is det in snty Heron.Rktect 22:26, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] hieroglyphics = evil?

    i heard that hieroglyphics were seen as evil fighting evil - that only the gods or those entrusted with them could use them.... & somehow that it protected evil by supporting it... someone verify/edit/ ?

    Hieroglyphic (and its cursive versions, hieratic and demotic) was simply the standard writing system of the Egyptian language, and it was used for any kind of religious or civil use. The extant hieroglyphic texts include such "unmagical" things as trial records, geometry excercise books, private letters, commercial invoices... Legends about hieroglyphs being a mysterious magic writing arose in the hellenistic age, when the Egyptian language had switched to the Greek alphabet and no one in Egypt could understand hieroglyphs anymore. 194.176.201.29 08:53, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Phonetic complements

    I would be bold and change this, but I'm an amateur.

    A question regarding the following passage:

    sw t
    Z1
    swt, "reed" - the t is the phonetic complement.


    How is the t a phonetic complement?

    sw

    reads sw, not swt in the first place. The t is an additional sound; it does not clarify the reading of sw. --Birdman1 talk/contribs 15:04, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

    I agree; this is not an example of a phonetic complement. I would just eliminate it. There are several other examples in the section that actually discusses phonetic complements. — Zerida 22:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
    Gardiner p 588 swt (M23), Ideo., a plant perhaps sedge or scirpus reed, p73 n 10; swt old indp. pron/, 3rd singular, sw pron. compound, he, it § 124.
    See also:

    [edit] Cleanup clarity

    26-Aug-2007: I have been analyzing the text, in an effort to improve the clarity of concepts presented. I have changed some linked phrases and added phrases to improve clarity. However, I think IMO, that more simple, generalized, overview statements should be added, because too many detailed examples are presented very abruptly, with little introduction for clarity of concepts. I realize it can be difficult to write smooth and clear intro sections about complex issues, so that writing could take a while to complete. -Wikid77 08:36, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Typesetting hieroglyphs

    26-Aug-2007: Some writers had intended the hieroglyphic symbols to appear embedded within paragraphs; however, those symbols split to separate lines on some browsers. I specifically re-typeset the hieroglyphic symbols using various techniques:

    • put text in HTML-divisions: <div> my text </div>
    • indented by colon (":"), each paragraph containing hieroglyphs;
    • indented by asterisk ("*") a bullet with hieroglyphs;
    • indented by colon-asterisk (":*") for hieroglyph sub-examples.

    Some hieroglyphic symbols are short, fitting within the interline spacing; however, some symbols are quite tall, causing an interline gap for fitting those tall symbols. I tried to shrink tall symbols by using small-font tags ("<small> tiny text </small>"), but the symbols would not shrink with font-size. Smaller symbols would be good to have. -Wikid77 08:41, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Repeating redundancy

    26-Aug-2007: Ironically, I have had to re-introduce redundant wording into this article explaining redundant hieroglyphic spellings, despite the issue (above) to "avoid redundancies" for concise writing. On the contrary, during the explanations of complex Egyptian symbols, it is NOT the time to be close-mouthed and discreet. Although brevity can display an aura of sophistication in writing, clear descriptions of Egyptian writing do not require proof of author sophistication. Please repeat concepts (in other words, restate key ideas) in a variety of styles at each point, in an effort to clarify concepts to a range of readers, before adding more concepts in follow-on sections. I strongly recommend: "tell 'em what you plan to say, then tell 'em, and then tell 'em what you told them." Many people will find the information fascinating, but very confusing, so by all means, explain concepts 3 times, but with the final recap shorter. Bored readers will skip the recap sections, but others will gain insights there. Do I hear, "I copy that"? -Wikid77 08:41, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Foreign signsets used

    This article needs a warning that it uses foreign letters, signs or other annotations that do not appear in the Latin or otherwise modern languages.

    How are the hyroglyphics written into the text? Rhinocerous Ranger (talk) 22:21, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] Boustrophedon?

    Was the language written boustrophedon style? Chris (talk) 12:41, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

    No. Direction depended on the layout of the writing surface - walls on opposite sides of a doorway might have writing in opposite directions. kwami (talk) 18:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

    [edit] Hieroglyphics - other meanings?

    In Slavic and some other East European languages (perhaps influenced by Russian) the word Hieroglyph (Russian: иероглиф) is used to describe Chinese characters (in Chinese or Japanese). In fact, it's the only way to say a Chinese character in Russian. Is there this meaning in English or some other European languages? I know some people frowned when somebody referred to Hanzi/Kanji as Hieroglyphs. In my opinion, the word Hieroglyph should not be used in relation to old Egyptian language alone but in reference to any Logographic system. --Atitarev (talk) 23:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] Flamingo?

    Hi there, i'm totally new to this and so may just be getting mixed up with how i'm interpreting things. However, in the 'Logograms' section, where there's a representation of the glyph meaning 'flamingo' it says "the corresponding phonogram means "red"", but i can't actually see a corresponding phonogram-just the bird glyph and the determinative telling me it's a logogram. is the "red" phonbnmbmbogram missing? or am i just misinterpreting what's being said? Can anybody help me on this? Thanks Greebo cat (talk) 23:52, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

    [edit] External Links

    Can these external links be placed on the Egyptian Hieroglyph page please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sw81245 (talk • contribs) 13:44, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

    No, they are spam. See WP:SPAM and WP:EL. Ward3001 (talk) 17:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)