Talk:Edward the Martyr/Archive1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Saint?

Why was he a Saint, what religious qulifications did he have or what good did he perform or bring about? These are unanswered questions.

Attributing saintly virtues to murdered kings (or just about any christian, for that matter) was practically a medieval pastime. Michael Wood in 'In Search of the Dark Ages' givs an alternate image of King Edward, suggesting he was 'violent, unstable and quick-tempered, sybaritic, petulent, and quick to make enemies'. Given the character of most medieval leaders and teenagers, I'm inclined to think this may be the more realistic view. 91.109.187.182 19:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Two Edwards

St Edward redirects here. Was Edward the Confessor also canonised? fr: seems to believe he was-- fr:Édouard le Confesseur "et le fait d'être ensuite sanctifié". Marnanel 00:47, Apr 27, 2004 (UTC)

  • Edward the Confessor was canonized in 1161. -Nunh-huh 00:55, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Quote

Under the section: "Motive and details of his murder" there is a quote: "King Edward, 'was a young man...'" that lacks any sort of attribution. I assume that since it is contained in quotation marks and is an opinionated statement that it is meant to inform the reader of a notable individual's opinion. Without a source for the quotation, however, it becomes difficult to judge what it is supposed to represent. -Chris 02:19, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Remains

Why in the world were his remains deposited with an Orthodox church? Or was the finder Orthodox? --Michael K. Smith 19:30, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Can anyone confirm that his remains are with the church? It is often said (even by serious historians) that his relics are kept in a vault in the Midland Bank in Croydon because of an unresolved dispute about which of two churches should have them. Richard75 19:32, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
This was resolved but was true at one point. -- SECisek 05:15, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Parish of St Edward Athelhampton Dorset

Some additional information for consideration:

In 1997, the former Anglican parish church of St Andrew, Athelhampton, near Dorchester,Dorset (south-western England) with the generous cooperation of the proprietor of Athelhampton House and Estate (Mr. Patrick Cooke), was re-dedicated to St. Edward, King and Martyr,for use by a newly-founded Antiochian Orthodox community.The congregation, coming from a wide area of Dorset (and even beyond the borders of Devon, Somerset and Hampshire)has continued to worship at St Edward's Church since then, and in September 2006 celebrated its forthcoming 10th anniversary. During that 10-year period there have been three parish priests: the first, and founder of the parish, Father John Colin Nield served until his death in 2001; he was succeeded by Fr. Chrysostom MacDonnell who served from 2001 until the end of 2005 when he became parish priest of the newly-re-dedicated St Dunstan of Canterbury Church (formerly St Osmund's C. of E.) in Parkstone, a suburb of Poole, Dorset; immediately following Fr. Chrysostom's new appointment, Fr. Deacon David Harris, who until three years beforehand had been a Reader in St Edward's, was ordained priest by Bishop Kallistos Ware (standing in for Metropolitan Gabriel, Bishop of the Antiochian Diocese of Western and Central Europe, who resides in Paris, France, and is elderly and was unwell at the time) and continues to serve the community today. Each of these three priests has been a native English speaker, and indeed each was formerly an Anglican priest. St Edward, King and Martyr is the Patron Saint of this church and community and his gloriously-painted icon has a prominent place close to the iconostasis.The Divine Liturgy is served in English each Sunday at 10 a.m. throughout the year. Additional services are also held according to the church season. The present parish priest and his wife, Lesley, live in Fordingbridge, Hampshire. Contact details are available from the Antiochian Orthodox Deanery website at this address:www.antiochian-orthodox.co.uk/diocese.

Geoffbh 14:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Picture

The picture of the statue claimed to be of Edward the Martyr but I belive it may be the Confessor. Thoughts? -- SECisek 23:18, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Statue was clearly the Confessor. We need a good Public Domain image of Edward! -- SECisek 16:30, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Comments

Hey guys. It's been made apparent that I ought not GA review articles that I'm not expert in, but here are comments which the layman may pick up in terms of readability, sourcing, manual of style etc. Hope they help.

  • "Edward the Martyr or Eadweard II (c. 962 – March 18, 978) was king of England from the death of his father King Edgar in 975." - not keen on the opening sentence, perhaps say he was king from x until his own death in y. Introduce his father subsequently.
  • Flow the next two sentences together, they are related.
  • I'm now tending to avoid citations in the lead. Since the lead shouldn't have anything in that isn't covered and expanded upon in the main body, it's a good idea to leave the lead free of such. Besides you have [1] in two places there, and nothing for the last sentence so it's a bit weird.
  • British English if you please! "recognised" instead of the z version, behavior has a u, etc.
  • "...it may be..." - a little ethereal, perhaps "...sources indicate..." and cite them?
  • Citation for birth place etc?
    • Eh? They don't know where he was born...
  • "...refoundation charter..." - which is? (Non expert warning!)
  • "In this, the infant Edmund is described as "legitimus clito", that is legitimate ætheling (member of the royal family), while Edward is merely "clito", ætheling, and appears after Edmund in the witness-list. " - this is hard work for non-expert readers. What's a witness-list? Not sure of the grammar here either!
  • "Edward's claim, however, was supported by Archbishop of Canterbury St Dunstan, and Archbishop of York Oswald of Worcester. Other supporters included ealdormen Ælfwine and Byrhtnoth." - uncited, and pray tell, what is an "ealdorman"? (Non expert warning!)
  • Explain "Witan" or link it.
  • "...great famine was raging through the land and violent attacks were stirred up against monasteries by prominent Mercian noblemen, led by Ælfhere, who coveted the lands which his father King Edgar had endowed to them." - plenty of point-of-view here (raging, stirred up, coveted the lands) - be careful.
  • "...fragrance issued from it[10]" - place citation appropriately per WP:CITE.
  • "...void desecration.[10]>" - spare >?
  • Last para of "Since the Reformation" is citation-less.

I hope that some of the comments help, it's an enjoyable article. Let me know if I can help further. The Rambling Man 17:02, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure who told you not to do GA Reviews in subject that you're not an expert in... if that were true, GA Reviews would never get done. Reviewing an article is about how it conforms to Wikipedia policies, no prior knowledge is required. Having said that, thanks for pointing out all that stuff, should make my review easier! Cheers, CP 18:11, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:

A well written article, and the above reviewer caught most of things that I would have commented on myself. I have just a few small issues before I can promote this article to GA status:

  1. The lead should contain just a smidgen more detail - perhaps on his lineage, perhaps on his miracles/relics, just something to slightly beef up the lead a bit. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what needs to be added, but given the amount of details and facts in the body of the article, one or two more important ones (perhaps why he is known as "the Martyr") should be included.
  2. A few statements require citations, although if any of them were cited earlier, just point out where (to me, on this talk page) and that will be fine:
  3. :"This took place on February 13, 980." (Legacy)
  4. :"On the way from Wareham to Shaftesbury, a further miracle had also taken place; two crippled men were brought close to the bier and those carrying it lowered the body to their level, where upon the cripples were immediately restored to full health. This procession and these events were re-enacted 1000 years later in 1981. Many other miracles are said to have been obtained through his intercession. Elfrida, struck with repentance for her crimes, built the two monasteries of Wherwell and Ambresbury, in the first of which she ended her days in penance." (Legacy)
  5. :"Edward is recognized as a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church, the Roman Catholic Church and the Anglican Communion. His feast day is celebrated on March 18, the day of his murder." (Since the Reformation)
  6. This sentence needs to be split in two or reformatted somehow, because it's fairly confusing in its current state: "The violence of Edward's end, joined to the fact that the party opposed to him had been that of the irreligious, whilst he himself had ever acted as defender of the Church, obtained for him the title of martyr, which is given to him in all the old English calendars on 18 March, also in the Roman Martyrology."

Also, not mandatory for a GA pass, but you should clean up the citations so that they read on one line, instead of long vertical columns, to make editing easier. Anyhow, to allow for these minor changes to be made, I am putting the article on hold for a period of up to seven days, after which it may be failed without further notice. Cheers, CP 18:38, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.