Talk:Edvard Beneš

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If Wikipedia can support the page Beneš decrees, then can we move this to Edvard Beneš? Timrollpickering 19:44, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I've requested the change on Wikipedia:Requested moves. Timrollpickering 12:10, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Edvard Benes or Edvard Beneš 2 Censorship in the article 3 Succession in presidency 4 Not responsible for Beneš decrees?

[edit] Edvard Benes or Edvard Beneš

• The original reason given for this location was that Wikipedia could not support the "š" in a title; however the Beneš decrees page exists. Timrollpickering 12:10, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Strongly opposed. The Beneš decrees article is seriously broken - š in the title is wrongly encoded as %9A, which is neither ISO-8859-1 nor UTF-8. This breaks tools expecting standard-conforming URLs. -- Naive cynic 23:32, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • See also bugzilla:65#c17. Thanks! Gangleri | Th | T 10:09, 2005 Feb 27 (UTC)

• Now, due to the UTF-8 conversion, both could work. -- Adam78 28 June 2005 14:35 (UTC)
  • Indeed. Supported. -- Naive cynic 28 June 2005 15:35 (UTC)
  • Supported, of course. Juro 28 June 2005 18:43 (UTC)

I've acted so. After the UTF-8 conversion there is no reason not to move. --Pjacobi June 28, 2005 18:59 (UTC)

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Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Use English words: The choice between anglicized and native spellings should follow English usage.

A Google search on "Edvard Benes" (there is a bug in Google's search returns, one has to go to the last page returned to find the real numbers):

• Web 368 of 368 English pages for "Edvard Beneš" -"Edvard Benes" -wikipedi
• Web 571 of about 11,700 English pages for -"Edvard Beneš" "Edvard Benes" -wikipedia.
• Books 351 - 360 of 602 on "Edvard Beneš" -Edvard-Benes.
• Books 461 - 467 of 467 on -"Edvard Beneš" "Edvard Benes".
• Scholar 321 - 321 of 321 for "Edvard Beneš" -"Edvard Benes" (a number (most?) of these are not in English)
• Scholar 511 - 515 of 515 for -"Edvard Beneš" "Edvard Benes".

This page should be moved back to Edvard Benes --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 12:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

That dead horse, again? Diacritics are allowed in article titles, period. - Darwinek (talk) 12:21, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes if they are the most common usage in English in this case they are not. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 09:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I disagree with that assertion. —Nightstallion 22:23, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

What is your evidence that "Edvard Benes" is not the most common spelling in verifiable reliable English sources? --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 09:07, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I disagree with the assertion that we should only be using diacritics if they're the most commonly used version of the word. Due to technical limitiations, until very recently Benes was almost the only *possible* spelling of his name used. The case is in my opinion not comparable to Franz Josef Strauss, where the most common English rendition *does* in fact substitute ss for the letter ß; in this case, my interpretation is that it's not a substitution of š by s but rather a commonly repeated mistake through technical limitations.

Either way, you did not file for a RM even though it's rather obvious that the matter is contentious (seeing as half a dozen editors *unanimously* agreed to move the article, as seen above), so if you insist that we should be dropping the diacritic, then I'd say follow established procedures. Okay? —Nightstallion 09:49, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Books and Scholar searches are not limited to publication that use Benes "due to technical limitiations" as you suggest. The article started out at Edvard Benes so why did you not ask for a requested move the move before moving it back again? After all if there was to be no consensus there is no reason for it to remain at this spelling which is a clear violation of the naming conventions. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk)

There was a clear consensus for moving it in June 2005; the consensus for moving it back right now is not evident to me. (And yes, Scholar and Books is likely LESS limited on typographical grounds, but not completely unlimited; and as you see, the fact that those people pay more attention to diacritics means that it's evened out a lot in the Google Fight department.) —Nightstallion 11:46, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

You says it is because of "typographical grounds" but you can not know that. It is your opinion not a fact, the guidelines say common usage not what some editors would like common usage to be. --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 12:16, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

In case of contentious moves, there should still be a formal discussion, preferably leading to a consensual solution. I'd wager there's still a substantial number of editors interested in this article who'd agree with me that qualifying the numbers as I've described above would speak in favour of using the diacritic in this case. —Nightstallion 22:04, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Censorship in the article

It is well-known that Benes did not simply die, but rather he was assasinated by the communist secret police, who dumped him through the window. For a man who did such evil against hundreds of thousands of german and hungarian people and whose name remains cursed for seventy-seven generations to come, such violent ending was very fitting, and should not be supressed!

Assuming that you are in good faith, anon, are you sure you are not confusing him with Jan Masaryk? -- Alan Peakall 20:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Benes died of natural causes. Jan Masaryk was the one who fell through the window. Whatever Benes did to the Germans was not as evil as what the germans did to the czechs. Let's have some perspective eh!?

Here is my perspective: if Germans+Hungarians were cruel to Chech + Slovak, so we fight back twice as big? Edvard Benes was lying like hell in Treaty of Trianon: Hungary lost half million people, and claiming North Hungary. Later Slovakia was after very busy to assimilate Hungary so now we have only quarter million people. You have to admit the name Bratislava only existed from 1920, it was always Pressburg/Pozsony, with 15% Slovaks, now only 15% Hungarians. For the Hungarians - and I suppose, the Sudeten Germans - the name Benes has no good feeling. Ferenc Kato

Add 1 - Mr. Benes died due to grave disease.

Add 2 - The name Benes doesn't sound good especially for nacionalist like Mr. Kato. I have to strongly recommend Mr. Kato and other people like him to learn about historical facts. Mr. Benes was not the only person responsible for transfer of Sudeten Germans. In fact he attempted to enforce much less extensive form of the transfer. Then czech government and Allies (The transfer was partly resolution of Potsdam conference) bears main part of responsibility for the transfer.

M. Sik

[edit] Succession in presidency

3^rd President of Czechoslovakia was Emil Hácha. Jan Syrový has never been Czechoslovak president, nor acting.
--Black&White (talk) 00:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Not responsible for Beneš decrees?

I'm not too familiar with Czech history, but the assertion that Edvard Beneš was not responsible for the decrees informally named after him is somewhat counterintuitive. This statement needs a citation.--Qmwne₂₃₅ 23:47, 31 May 2008 (UTC)