Talk:Edmonton

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Edmonton article.
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Good article Edmonton was one of the Geography and places good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
To-do list for Edmonton: edit · history · watch · refresh

Welcome to the new Edmonton To-Do list! Please feel free to add point form tasks to the list. When tasks have been completed, please strike-through them and do not delete. Happy research!


  1. Address issues to reinstate GA status!!
    1. Citations 1 through 20 revised.
  2. More relevant pictures/placement thereof
    1. Better UofA picture
  3. Expand and work on sub-articles (festivals, sport, etc)
  4. Possible politics section
Archive
Archives
1


Contents

[edit] Images of Edmonton

This page needs better photographs of Edmonton. I've replaced a few that made Edmonton look terrible. --Spanwar, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Murder

It seems that Edmonton now has the greatest proportion of murders of any major city in Canada, at least for the 2005 year. Do you think it would be interesting to add a section on murders and other crime statistics for the city? --Yamla 17:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Obviously, any such information would need to be properly cited. --Yamla 17:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I propose that the murder rate section be removed. It is a one year statistical anomaly and is not a long-term trend. I shall edit it out right now and if anyone objects please discuss here. Furthermore, such a topic doesn't really fit with "demographics" anyways. If necessary it can be restored. Rendar 16:14, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The Murder sections, I think, deserves mention. A variety of Canadian newpapers can be cited as sources. - Kevin

the only reason it is even up for discussion as warranting a mention is because the overall murder rate in Canada is so low, and the way the numbers are tracked is flawed anyway. Edmonton and Winnipeg are often in the top five, sometimes trading each other for the #1 spot, but I agree with Rendar, it is a statistical anomaly not worthy of its own separate section in the article. Garth of the Forest 22:43, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Version 0.5, Economy section

I just reviewed this for Version 0.5, and approved it for inclusion on the CD. However, I am concerned that the articles doesn't have a specific section on its economy, unlike most city articles I have reviewed. I realise that mention is made (more than once) of the diverse economy and the oil, but this is important enough to the life of a city to have its own section. The last paragraph of the intro could form the foundation of this section. For some examples see

Once you get a decent section written, please can someone change the "B" tag in the template to "A" because otherwise the article seems good. Thanks! Walkerma 04:16, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

So noted. I will tackle this on the weekend if I have time. Let's work on getting this article to A status! :) Rendar 17:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I have Economic Development Edmonton data from 2004 that is straight from the source. It was part of a package published by them in 2005 called "Greater Edmonton by the Numbers". This should give the skeleton and we'll shine it up collaboratively. 209.89.3.74 19:25, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I just did an edit and rework of the economy section that was added. Everyone please give it a look over and make sure it stays encyclopedic as opposed to an EEDC brochure :) Rendar 17:27, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Just made a quick change to the Economy section removing Dell as one of the major employers in the seeing as most of the staff have been laid off and the site will be fully closed in May. ~~ Razor —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.151.155.110 (talk) 05:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Almost the largest in North America?

I made the change in the claim to reflect data from many other cities. For example(s), Edmonton is barely larger than Chicago (684 km2 vs. 606 km2), it is smaller than New York (1214.4 total, 785.5 land), about half the size of Los Angeles (1290.6), less than half the size of Houston (1558), and less than a third the size of Jacksonville, FL (2264.5). When compared to cities that are even smaller in population, Edmonton is less than one twelfth of the area of Juneau, AK (8430 total, 7036 land) and less than 6% of the size of Sitka, AK (12461.8 total, 7444 land). So, it is clearly not the largest or close to the largest in North America. There are 24 cities in the United States that are larger by land area alone and at least 28 that are larger in total area, some of which are larger by a factor of 18 (Sitka, AK).

Even within Alberta itself, Calgary is larger, at 789.9 km2. Within Canada, it appears that there are 38 cities and towns that are larger. Although some of these are just "towns", most are either cities, "villes", or regional municipalities. Also, in my mind, even if all 38 were just "towns", it would seem misleading to call Edmonton one of the largest cities on the continent if many "just town(s)" were larger (and much larger at that).

I hope the new wording still reflects the fact that Edmonton is a relatively large city, by area, but that it no longer makes a claim to be one of the largest on the continent. Ufwuct 15:30, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA Passed

I don't like the large lists in "Festivals" and "Culture", but these small faults still do not detract from this Good Article. Morgan695 21:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Somebody should move them into their own article along the lines of Festivals in Calgary and List of attractions and landmarks in Calgary. --Arch26 22:11, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Articles for deletion

Well, I posted elsewhere that the three congregations in Wikipedia:List of Churches in Edmonton were recently part of mass deletion attempt that was recently "trainwrecked". Hovever, someone in Prague has decided that First Presbyterian's stub is a nn entry and be instantly deleted. Is our Czech friend correct, or should the First Pres leaders invite Jan Hejda, Ladislav Smid, Petr Sykora and Ales Hemsky over for Christmas Dinner (Edmonton Oilers from the Czech Republic)? Bacl-presby 16:05, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent History

I think the section on Recent history should be a bit more balanced. It has an uncited paragraph about the diversification of the economy and the recovery of the downtown core, but fails to mention other significant changes occuring because of the economic growth. I think it's significant that Edmonton now has the highest murder rate in the country for major canadian cities. Thoughts? Zekechills 00:11, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

One year does not a trend make. I think one should wait on at least another year of stats to put this in an encylopedia article. Rendar 06:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Population density comment needs to go

I've decided that the the comment "Edmonton has one of the lowest population densities in North America, about 1.5% that of New York City." (originally read "about 67 times less than the population density of New York City.") needs to be deleted for good. It's just become too trite. In other words, too boring and hackneyed from use, not to mention it screaming urban sprawl. True, Edmonton is certainly not a saint in this regard, but we don't need that comment anymore. I also can tell you that there's people out there throwing this kind of comment around to criticize Edmonton, even in written articles, both online and the news media.

Try a Google search on Edmonton having the lowest population densities in North America and the comparison to New York City's population density. You'll be surprised how often this info will show up in the search results. Besides, there's probably a lot of other similar-sized US cities that have even lower population densities. NorthernFire 22:43, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Since it is true and important, there is no reason it should not be included in the article. The article needs to conform to WP:NPOV and an Albertan (see user page) subtracting unflattering information about a city in his province and refering to Edmonton as "we" screams bias to me. The fact that many secondary sources backup this claim is even more reason to include it. The idea that boring and overused information should be excluded from Wikipedia is ridiculous and I have never heard it suggested. While it is being discussed, I will revert it.--JEF 23:20, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Ridiculous or no, I don't have to agree with this. But I'll let your reversion stands anyways, since I don't want to be pulled into an editing/reverting war. NorthernFire 23:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

One other thing is that the 1.5% figure sounds inaccurate. (FYI, 1.5% is the same as 67 times lower), I don't know how they got that figure. If you calculate Edmnoton's density of 974.0/km2 against New York's density of 10,316/km2 (stated in New York City's Wiki article), this works out to Edmonton's density being 9.4% that of NYC's. If I'm wrong on this inaccuracy, please feel free to discuss or revert it. NorthernFire 01:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Heading: Politics ?

I think we need a new heading on the page about the politics of Edmonton. It could deal with city council, the politics of the Edm capital region, the regional health authority, the public, seperate, and french public shcool boards, the city's relation to provincial politics, and the city in federal politics, with a link to Canadian federal election results in Edmonton and environs. Thoughts? Kevlar67 21:31, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

This could easily be a separate article entirely. Rendar 06:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New article of list of attractions and landmarks in Edmonton created

I'd like to let you all know that I've deleted the list of attractions and landmarks in Edmonton in the City Life section and created a separate new Wikipedia article 'List of attractions and landmarks in Edmonton'. I didn't just move the list to the new article - the list is broken according to which sections of the city they lie in. Also by doing this, the entire Edmonton article is kept a bit shorter. (you will have probably noticed that whole article for the city is already getting a little long. Prior to the changes I've made in this regard, the entire city article was 63 kilobytes long). If there's any thoughts or if you'd like to make changes or add to the new article, please feel free. NorthernFire 20:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Another new article created for Edmonton media outlets

I've created yet another new article, List of Edmonton media outlets, since that may help to keep the city's article from becoming too long. Of course, other major Canadian cities have had the same thing done for their media sections, so I don't see anything wrong with doing the same for Edmonton. The original contents in the Media section have been basically transferred to the new article and the Media section replaced with a shortened version. If you have any thoughts, or want to add or make changes in this regard, please feel free to do so. NorthernFire 22:42, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New article Transportation in Edmonton created

I've just created a new article titled, Transportation in Edmonton, partly because I feel the whole city article was still getting a bit long (it was originally 62 kb long prior to the changes made). Like the last other new articles I've done here, I transferred the original text (with some changes) to the new article and replaced it with a shortened summarized version in the city article. Details of the LRT expansion originally in the city article have been transferred to the existing article Edmonton Light Rail Transit, as I feel it's more appropriate that they go there. Please feel free to state your thoughts and/or make any constructive changes to the new article. NorthernFire 01:33, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Very cool. I added some things about CN in the main article since we are a major hub for their North American system Rendar 06:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crime and Homelessness

I was trawling around the StatsCan site yesterday after reading of the latest carnage in Edmonton over the Easter long weekend. A couple of interesting things came up: (1) We are not the "murder capital" of Canada - scoring only second place in the stats with Winnipeg taking the title. However, there is a high basal homicide rate that is at least notable and can be realiably sourced. (2) Homelessness - very high per capita rate, with a damning proportion of residents of the Downtown core being homeless. Interesting stuff, and perhaps the homelessness rate being the more significant statistic of the two, this being more obvious to visitors to the city center (most homicide victims are well known to their killers). Food for though?

Elk Islander 20:47, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unclear facts re:Downtown

The downtown core, which has seen increasing redevelopment since the 1997 Capital City Downtown Plan was introduced, is home to the Central Business District (CBD) as well as over 4,000 residents. Downtown proper consists of the Commercial Core, Arts District, Rice Howard Way Pedestrian Mall, MacKay Avenue, Jasper-West, Warehouse District and Government Precinct.

I added the "citation needed" to this because it confuses the hell out of me. If the definition of "downtown core" from the second half it used, then I don't see how the population in the first half can be so low. And when and where was this population recorded, 1997? Just think of the big new apartment block like Grand Central Manor on 109st and 103ave. They probably contain several thousand people on their own! Doesn't make sense. Kevlar67 20:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

The citation would be the plan of 1997 itself. Back then there were indeed only around 4k people living in all over those areas. We've come a very long way since then! New numbers can definitely be added to reflect the new population which is probably closer to around 15k Rendar 04:12, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] City status when?

We know Edmonton got town status in 1904. When did it get city status? Kevlar67 03:47, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually, that's not correct. Edmonton was incorporated as a town in 1892 and became a city in 1904. http://www.edmonton.ca/portal/server.pt/gateway/PTARGS_0_2_1652777_0_0_18/History+of+Edmonton.htm http://www.edmonton.ca/infraplan/demographic/Edmonton%20Population%20Historical.pdf (See bottom of the PDF file) NorthernFire 21:25, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nicknames and slogans

Why cant we have these? When your telling about a city, you've got to tell what the city is known for otherwise.

  • You can have them. As mentioned in the edit summary the main slogans are already listed in the article in other locations and have citations proving they are correct. The others were not cited and cause too many edit wars, while not really adding anything to the article. --Djsasso 09:07, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NEW PIC FOR EDMONTON

Can somone please add a new pic for Edmonton? Here are some good ones. http://imahttp://e-journey.net/upload/en/thumb/c/cb/SkylineDusk.jpg/450px-SkylineDusk.jpg http://images.world66.com/wi/nt/er/winter_in_edmonton_galleryfull http://www.nbccedmonton.org/images/edmontonNight2.jpg

Wikipedia does not endorse leaching images off other websites. Instead, images are uploaded by contributors specifically for use in articles. --67.142.130.15 13:46, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Indeed. We do not permit copyright violations. See WP:COPYRIGHT and WP:FU. --Yamla 13:47, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fort Edmonton - largest?

In the lead, it is stated that Fort Edmonton is Canada's largest historic park. Is there any reference for this claim? --67.142.130.15 13:48, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe I am blind, but I don't see this claim in the lead section. --Kmsiever 14:41, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
It's under the markup: "It is home to [[West Edmonton Mall|North America's largest mall]] and [[Fort Edmonton|Canada's largest historic park]].". --67.142.130.15 16:51, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

is edmonton the bigiset world ?

[edit] Couple of minor discrepancies

It says that the highest recorded temperature is 34.5 Celsius, but then it says that on July 22, 2006 it reached around 35 Celsius.

Also it says that 50.1% of people are female and 49.2% is male. Well that leaves 0.7% of people as neither male or female. So what are these people then??? Canuck85 09:49, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

To the temperature thing - part of the problem is Environment Canada's page has a section that lists extremes and what not only to the year 2000. Another section only has up to January 2005. I've updated the statistics bit from Stats Can —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rendar (talk • contribs) 04:03, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Culture section

Just happened upon this article and I have to say that it's very well-structured. I was bold and removed the following glaring POV lead-in to the 'culture' section: "Edmonton has always been a city proud of its cultural accomplishments. As the city has grown, so has the cultural scene. Today, Edmonton is a proud home to many features which add to its cosmopolitan flair." Surprised to find such a blanket tourism-brochure statement in an article of this quality.

Also, the culture section is a bit awkward and probably should be de-listified -- maybe move more information into the sub-article?

Just some random objective thoughts. Again, though, really super article, I can tell it's gotten lots of love. Cheers pinotgris 22:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Is there an article to explain what the "Cultural Capital" thing is? I haven't been able to find one. People in Edmonton seemed to be confused about what it meant all year long, and now it looks like that confusion might have linked onto its Wikipedia page... Somewildthingsgo (talk) 06:57, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion

In fixing up the GA tag for WP:UCGA I noticed this article looks well written and fine, but the references need to be converted to approach citation formats (see WP:CITET). Certainly not enough to suggest delisting this as a GA, but definitely a recommendation to make this article possibly go to an FA. --Masem 12:52, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that may need to be addressed.

  • The license tag for Image:Edmonton tornado.jpg needs updating.
  • The Notable People section should be replaced by prose on the more notable residents. Each person needs a citation, and a link should be provided to List of notable Edmontonians.
  • Web references need the author, publisher, publishing date and access date.
  • The article has too many one-line paragraphs.
  • These statements need citations:
    • "The first inhabitants gathered in the area which is now Edmonton around 3,000 BC and perhaps as early as 10,000 BC, when an ice-free corridor opened up as the last ice age ended and timber, water and wildlife became available in the region."
    • "In 1754, Anthony Henday, an explorer working for the Hudson's Bay Company, may have been the first European to enter the Edmonton area."
    • "By 1795, Fort Edmonton was established as a major trading post for the Hudson's Bay Company."
    • "Edmonton became the capital of Alberta a year later on September 1, 1905."
    • "The first licensed airfield in Canada, Blatchford Field (now Edmonton City Centre Airport), was started in 1929."
    • "The first major oil discovery in Alberta was made on February 13, 1947 near the town of Leduc to the south of Edmonton."
    • "the collapse of world oil prices in 1986 and massive government cutbacks kept the city from making a full economic recovery until the late 1990s."
    • "In 1981, West Edmonton Mall, which was at the time the world's largest mall, opened."
    • "On July 31, 1987, a devastating tornado, ranked as an F4 on the Fujita scale, hit the city and killed twenty-seven people."
    • "The downtown core and parts of the inner city, after years of extremely high office vacancy rates and neglect, have recovered to a great degree."
    • "Edmonton is located near the geographical centre of the province at an elevation of 668 metres (2,192 ft)."
    • "The river valley is 22 times larger than New York City's Central Park."
    • "to give a total of 111 square kilometres (27,400 acres) of parkland. "
    • "The downtown core, which has seen increasing redevelopment since the 1997 Capital City Downtown Plan was introduced, is home to the Central Business District (CBD) as well as over 4,000 residents"
    • "Extremes do occur such as the 114 mm of rainfall that fell on July 31, 1953."
    • "A massive cluster of thunderstorms occurred on July 11, 2004, with large hail and over 100 mm of rain reported within the space of an hour in many places."
    • "At the summer solstice, Edmonton receives seventeen hours and six minutes of daylight, with twilight extending well beyond that. Edmonton receives 2,289 hours of sunshine per year"
    • "Edmonton is known for its exceptional environmental stewardship, strong life-science sector, and burgeoning high-tech industry economy."
    • "Currently the City of Edmonton is working on the South LRT Extension which will see trains travelling to Century Park located at 23rd Avenue and 111 Street by the end of 2009"
    • "Edmonton's waste management services' modern composting facility has the capacity to recycle 65 percent of the city's residential waste. The co-composter is 38,690 square metres (416,455 sq ft) in size, equivalent to eight football fields. It is designed to process 200,000 tonnes of residential solid waste per year and 22,500 dry tonnes of biosolids, turning them into 80,000 tonnes of compost annually. The facility is the largest of its type in the world."
    • "In the next few years, the city anticipates it will divert more than 80% of the city's household waste from entering the landfills."
    • "in 2002, EPCOR installed the world's largest ultraviolet (UV) water treatment or Ultraviolet disinfection system"
    • "It seats 1,916 patrons and houses the $3 million Davis Concert Organ, the largest concert organ in Canada."
    • "The Edmonton International Fringe Festival, which takes place in mid-August, is the largest Fringe Theatre Festival in North America"
    • "the Under 20 Fifa World Cup which is the third largest sporting event in the world"
    • "Recent Reports also indicate a large number of Edmontonians have joined the online Network Facebook with over 120,000 members which is rapidly growing."

I will check back in no less than seven days. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GA/R). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAC. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions. Regards, Epbr123 21:35, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

  • As there is still much work to do, I'm afraid I've had to delist the article. Epbr123 09:49, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
    • I'll try to work on this over the comming week and get the citations fixed up. Rendar 04:13, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

I just noticed the suggested pronunciation in this article. It has Edmonton pronounced: ɛd.mɪn.tɪn. If I am interpreting the key correctly this is basically: "edmintin" with the "in" sound. I suppose some people may pronounce it that way but I believe ɛd.mɛn.tɛn ("edmehntehn" with "eh" sound) or better yet ɛd.mɔːn.tɔːn ("edmonton" "on" sound) are more common and correct. Of course some may mix it up a bit with ɛd.mɛn.tɔːn and I have seen ɛd.mən.tən suggested. In any event, I think ɛd.mɪn.tɪn may be one of the least correct and I certainly don't use it. Any thoughts or perhaps corrections to my interpretation of the IPA key?

WCVanHorne 02:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Besides noticing we tend to swallow the "d", I'd say that ɛd.mɪn.tɪn is a fairly accurate pronunciation. Somewildthingsgo (talk) 06:59, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] List of Edmontonians

I suggest that in the interest of managing the article length for this main article about Edmonton that we remove this list in its entirety from the Edmonton article and simply provide a link to List of notable Edmontonians from somewhere within this main article about Edmonton. Thoughts? Garth of the Forest 05:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of Notable Edmontonians, Continued...

Sounds good, as this is very popular amongst other municipality pages in wikipedia, as long as we, despite common tradtion, ensure that there is not preview heading in the main Edmonton page, as the new page would be a list formatt. Thaat would a common yet pointless error. Otherwise, I think we are Okay to continue that feature. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikilord17 (talk • contribs) 04:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] informal / biased tone

statements like "There is also an explosion of warehouses and high tech industry jobs!" under Recent History and "West Edmonton Mall Shopping!" under the image of west edmonton mall strike me as being informal and biased in favour of the city. i don't know what to do about that because i am a mere guest but i feel these should be edited to something less enthusiastic? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.150.205.98 (talk) 06:14, 11 June 2008 (UTC)