Talk:Edinburgh tram network

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[edit] CONTROVERSIES

Need some text and links to articles linking to reports that the proposed tram system was accepted without public votes or any democratic approval but were accepted by the government. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.97.231.230 (talk) 16:59, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested move

This project is now under construction and seems to have a proper name but the results are confusing. I am suggesting this be moved to one of these names:

• Trams for Edinburgh
• Trams in Edinburgh
• New Edinburgh Tramways
• Edinburgh Tram
• TramTime

This is based on various searches for the proper name of the project. I am not sure which it is though. Simply south (talk) 18:20, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I think TfE is just marketing speak, TiE is the commissioning company, where most hits for that will come from, NET - never seen this one but historically accurate (is there an old edinburgh tram article?), ET is the obvious choice, TramTime - never heard of it. MickMacNee (talk) 19:01, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Scratch that, actually TiE stands for Transport in Edingburgh, but they do refer to the system as Edinburgh Trams, which as they are the builder, should probably be the official name (although arguably without the s). MickMacNee (talk) 19:05, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Given that the system is not yet open, and from the above discussion clearly does not yet have a stable 'public identity', the name on WP is inevitably going to be fairly arbitrary. I'd be inclined to leave the current name alone, create redirs for the above alternate names, and cover the lack of a stable name in the text of the article. Once a stable public identity has emerged, we can then think about renaming the article. -- Chris j wood (talk) 12:15, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Also I would expect Trams in Edinburgh to be a more general overall article, covering both the historic systems of Edinburgh and Leith and the new system. -- Chris j wood (talk) 12:22, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Trams For Edinburgh is the new web site address with TramTime being the old.
New Edinburgh Tramways was an unofficial project set up by a private company which never received any backing by national or local government.
tie is not for Trams in Edinburgh or Transport in Edinburgh but Transport Initiatives Edinburgh. They are the overseeing organization for the project. They have also worked on various projects other than the Edinburgh Tram.
The official name/branding for the system is "Edinburgh Trams". This is what is being used on all on street signs, all mailings being issued by the overseeing organization and the latest construction updates.
I propose the the page be renamed Edinburgh Trams--77.103.197.54 (talk) 21:03, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. This nomination appears to be based on the common but mistaken belief that official names are an overriding consideration in Wikipedia article naming, and is another demonstration of why the existing policy of not being bound by them is a good one. Andrewa (talk) 02:49, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
  • In reply to this, there are times when the most common name must be used (e.g. The Broads or Beeching Axe) and times when the official, or at least the branded, name should be used (e.g. National Trust for Places of Historic Interest or Natural Beauty or Nottingham Express Transit). Contrary to this, common name does not override everything and I am not saying official does. Take things with a pinch of salt. This falls into the latter. Simply south (talk) 18:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
    • That's an interesting view, but the policy actually reads (in part) Generally, article naming should prefer what the greatest number of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature. Yes, we do use official names for article titles, but that's because either they are also the common name, or there's some good reason not to use the common name. Andrewa (talk) 23:52, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
      • This article is about the current tram project, not previous tram systems in Edinburgh. Once the name of the system is known, it will become the common name. Right now it is hard to determine which it will be called. Simply south (talk) 02:15, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
        • "Right now it is hard to determine which it will be called" - so why the need to debate it at all? What is so ambiguous about the current title? Renaming it now and then again when a proper name emerges just creates editing work to fix all the resulting redirects again. MickMacNee (talk) 11:50, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
          • Exactly. That's one reason for the current policy. English usage generally changes a lot more slowly than the whims of officialdom. No change of vote. Andrewa (talk) 15:34, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
• Oppose. It's unclear whether these official names refer to the network, or the project to build the network, let alone what it will be called when finished. For the moment, the simple descriptive name this article already has is by far the clearest. David Arthur (talk) 14:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)