Talk:Economy of Europe

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Contents 1 Began 2 UNDP where? 3 S&M 4 Population 5 GDP growth map wrong 6 Old data 7 Why is this in $'s?? 8 Third largest? 9 Poorest countries on different continents

[edit] Began

Began this page, based loosely on the Economy of Africa article, as this was the only continental economy article to have been written. Still needs a huge amount of work, but basic structure is there. I incorporated the 2 maps and the chart which already existed here, and left some headings to be completed, as such a large article has to be a work in progress Grunners 02:14, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] UNDP where?

"Numbers from the UNDP from 2002", where? Link please. Anyway, I'm updating the numbers to 2003 from IMF PPP, currency, with per capita from the 814 million number. - Jerryseinfeld 21:27, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The maps and chart with the UNDP figures were already here, you'll have to ask SimonP Grunners 14:01, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Do we really need to charts which essentially show the same thing, in this case GDP per capita. I think it's preferable to just use one, and the superior one is the more up to date and larger version, underneath the older one. -- Joolz 17:00, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] S&M

Serbia and Montenegro may use different currencies and have various other differences, but by their own agreement and under auspices of the international community are still one single country. Unless/until this state changes, they should be listed as such. Otherwise, it's a rather slippery slope with regard to which areas to separate from which. --Joy [shallot] 23:22, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

BUT they use different currencies, therefore, on a chart which shows currencies, how can they possibly be listed together? They are listed as one union elsewhere in the article, but I feel a distinction needs to be made here. Grunners 14:07, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

And the distinction was being made in my version, except that it was also grouping them together. I think it was a fair compromise between economics and politics. --Joy [shallot] 19:30, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

fair enough, changed Grunners 11:28, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Population

The box on the right side speaks of a population of 800 million, while the text has 660 million in the first paragraph. I think the number in the text is correct.

I'd agree with that Grunners 15:44, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] GDP growth map wrong

The map showing changes in GDP is definitely wrong in the cases of Croatia, Bosnia-Hercegovina and Serbia-Montenegro. In all three countries GDP per person was lower in 2002 than it was in 1990, as well as in Romania and Bulgaria. [1] Scroll to page three, graph in the bottom right-hand corner.

The numbers come from the UNDP and can be found here. - SimonP 22:51, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC)

The UNDP is wrong I know for a fact that Serbia's GDP is 55-60% of its 1990 level. I would provide sources but I suspect you do not know Serbo-Croat. --estavisti 20:19, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Old data

In less that two weeks we will be in 2007, and most of the data still dates back to 2000-2004, with some of it even stretching as far back as 1997 (ten years ago!). So I think it's about ime it's changed, because soon people just won't be taking it seriously any more. Daniel Montin 11:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why is this in $'s??

It should really be in Euros, otherwise the economy would be growing dramatically... Migdejong 16:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

that choice was probably made for direct comparison to the other economy of continent articles. In any event it would be best to avoid nominal figures so as to reduce the importance of the currency selected for denoting the economic data.Zebulin 16:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Third largest?

The article say that as continent is the third largest economy, but i go to the World Bank list and Europe is the first (and with more income that the date expressed on the table) --Bentaguayre (talk) 21:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

World bank doesnt list continents to the best of my knowledge could you link to source? Asia has the largest economy by combined GDP either nominal or PPP and North America has the 2nd largest by combined GDP in both nominal or ppp comparisons as well.Zebulin (talk) 21:39, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Zebulin, non the World Bank or the IMF give the dates for continents, but i add the different countries with the info of those institutions (only nominal, wich is the usual date, see for example the article for each country wich show only nominal and not PPP)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29

The list of countries are based on the respective list of the continents articles called "Economy of..."

There is a great problem with the "asiatic" territories of Europe, are included several countries that can be perfectly asiatic. Both wikipedia articles Economy of Europe and Economy of Asia have Russia included, althought i think most of production is in the european regions.

• Armenia: 6387/6406
• Azerbaijan: 19817/20122
• Georgia: 7764/7550
• Turkey: 401763/402710

Total: 435731/435750-Plus Russia: 1420656/1422690

Europe: IMF/World Bank

• European Union: 14609836/14412535
• Albania: 9145/9136
• Andorra:
• Armenia: 6387/6406
• Azerbaijan: 19817/20122
• Belarus: 36944/36945
• Bosnia Herzegovina: 11396/11296
• Croatia: 42915/42653
• Georgia: 7764/7550
• Iceland: 16307/15854
• Liechtenstein:
• Macedonia: 6282/6217
• Moldova: 3356/3266
• Monaco:
• Montenegro: /2347
• Norway: 335856/310960
• Russia: 984925/986940
• San Marino:
• Serbia: 31989/31808
• Switzerland: 387987/379758
• Turkey: 401763/402710
• Ukraine: 106469/106111
• Vatican City:

Total: 17019138/16792614- Minus "asiatic" countries: 15598482/15369924

-North America

• Antigua and Barbuda: 1004/962
• Bahamas: 6237/
• Barbados: 3431/3091
• Belize: 1222/1217
• Canada: 1275273/1251463
• Costa Rica: 21466/22145
• Dominica: 256/300
• Dominican Republic: 31600/30581
• El Salvador: 18654/18306
• Grenada: 524/519
• Guatemala 30299/35290
• Haiti: 4473/4961
• Honduras: 9072/9235
• Jamaica: 10365/10533
• México: 840012/839182
• Nicaragua: 5301/5369
• Panamá: 17103/17097
• Saint Kittis and Nevis: 495/487
• Saint Lucia: 925/906
• Saint Vicent and Grenadines: 501/466
• Trinidad and Tobago: 18171/19911
• USA: 13194700/13201819

Total: 15491084/15473840

-Asia:

• Afghanistan: 8256/8399
• Bahrain: 15354/12914
• Bangladesh: 69854/61961
• Bhutan: 931/927
• Brunei: 11561/6400
• Cambodia: 7272/7193
• China: 2644642/2668071
• Taiwan: 363563/
• Hong Kong: 189799/189798
• Macau: /14285
• India: 873659/906268
• Indonesia: 364239/364459
• Iran: 222387/222889
• Iraq:
• Israel: 142250/123434
• Japan: 4366459/4340133
• Jordan: 14101/14176
• Kazakhstan: 81003/77237
• North Korea:
• South Korea: 888267/888024
• Kuwait: 95924/80781
• Kyrgyzstan: 2822/2695
• Laos: 3437/3404
• Lebanon: 22722/22722
• Malaysia: 148945/148940
• Maldives: 907/915
• Mongolia: 3156/2689
• Myanmar: 13123/
• Nepal: 8865/8052
• Oman: 35990/24284
• Pakistan: 127002/128830
• Palestine:
• Philippines: 117562/145841
• Qatar: 52722/42463
• Russia: 984925/986940
• Saudi Arabia: 349138/309778
• Singapore: 132155/132158
• Sry Lanka: 26959/26967
• Syria: 34919/34902
• Tajikistan: 2811/2811
• Thailand: 206338/206247
• East Timor: 351/356
• Turkmenistan: 21846/10496
• United Arab Emirates: 168296/129702
• Uzbekistan: 17027/17178
• Vietnam: 60995/60884
• Yemen: 20040/19057

Total: 12836244/12455660- Plus "european" countries: 13271975/12858370

So as result we have:

IMF-WB (Europe with “asiatic” countries)

• 1º Europe: 17019138/16792614
• 2º North America: 15491084/15473840
• 3º Asia: 12836244/12455660

IMG-WB (Europe without “asiatic” countries)

• 1º or 2º Europe: 15598482/15369924
• 1º or 2º North America: 15491084/15473840
• 3º Asia: 13271975/12858370

In any case, Europe with Russia is the first; if we add North and South America, America is the first. Asia is always third.

regards

--Bentaguayre (talk) 13:40, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to compile those numbers from the from the list of nominal GDP values. I'm afraid we have some work cut out for us. I went down the list of countries by nominal GDP (IMF data) and clicked each one for it's individual article down to russia (the first 11). It would appear that all countries list in their info box both GDP (PPP) and GDP nominal and the template seems to specify this by default. Nominal is more the more volatile of the two being more sensitive to short term currency fluctuations but both values are useful for comparison of economies in different respects. There is no question that I was mistaken about Asias nominal net GDP. However Europes values for both nominal and PPP GDP are complicated by the considerations you outlined. I recommend that for the purposes of this article we select one sourced definition of europe as a continent and declare that very early in the article so that the same set of countries is included in all data used. This is of course an unsatisfactory solution as we will need to contradict the source somewhat in either including non european portions of trans continental countries like russia and turkey or excluding european portions of those two countries as I highly doubt we will find either a source that describes europe as bounded by the borders of those countries or that our sources for economic data will break down the data for those countries into their european and asiatic components. We will also have difficulty avoiding double counting in any comparisons to the economy of Asia article.

As an interim step I suggest we specify the countries included in the figures used for each economy of continent article so that readers will at least know what is being compared. For nominal GDP north america and europe are close enough that any comparison will hinge upon how the set of european countries is defined. It will probably be advisable to avoid any comparative statements in either article so as to avoid adding statements that hinge upon the current weaknesses in the articles. We should also standardise and update the infobox for each economy of continent article as some currently do not even display nominal GDP.Zebulin (talk) 22:21, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Poorest countries on different continents

Is it necessary to go into that distinction? It is quite misleading to say that the poorest countries in Europe are better off than in other parts of the world, considering countries in Europe such as Kosovo and Moldova. Both South America's and North America's (Caribbean) poorest countries are roughly comparable. The reader might get the impression that Europe is a continent free of poverty. Ypps (talk) 15:51, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I think comparisons of mean and median income across whole continents might be useful but I agree that comparing the poorest countries in each continent is useless. A continent could rise rapidly in such a comparison just by annexing a small desperately poor country to a larger richer country without any change in actual poverty levels whatsoever. Conversely Europe could be dropped to the bottom of the list if it's poorest neighbourhood were spun off as an independent country.Zebulin (talk) 04:28, 10 May 2008 (UTC)