Talk:Eclipse (software)
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[edit] but what does it actually do ???
just came to this looking for some non techie description of what it does, perhaps someone could write a paragraph in non technical english on what this sucker actually does ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.104.55.241 (talk) 12:19, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
- It lets people write software programs in Java. It's somewhat more than that, but going into more detail is just going to be a repeat of the article. Ham Pastrami (talk) 13:18, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] What's an OTI?
It doesn't say this anywhere on the page or provide a link that explains it.
- It stands for 'Object Technology International'. Rcjsuen 22:26, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Third Generation?
It seems somewhat biased to call SWT a third-generation widget toolkit that improves upon Swing, which is still the more popular toolkit. The SWT article has a more neutral viewpoint, including a detailed list of pros and cons as compared to Swing. Anyone else's thoughts? --LostLeviathan 16:10, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
- I agree, I've softened the language here a little bit, as well as making a few other corrections and improvements to the article. Andrewferrier 18:29, 2004 Nov 30 (UTC)
- Softened it a bit more.
-
- This is still coming across as saying 'SWT obsoletes Swing'. The Widget toolkit article does not discuss generations of toolkits so I've removed the 'nth-generation' language. Gruntbuggly 21:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Name
Shouldn't this article be called Eclipse (software), rather than "Eclipse (computing)" ? Eclipse isn't a computing term, like, say, Port (computing) is. It's software. —Pengo 01:59, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
- Probably. 128.226.230.90 13:29, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] OSGi
Why is OSGi referenced here? I see no relation to Eclipse on its pages. Oberiko 16:26, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
OSGi is now being used in Eclipse to provide plug-in functionality. All Eclipse plugin components are OSGi bundles. This was one of the deliverables from Eclipse's Equinox project Ltc 19:59, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Corporate Uses
It could maybe be mentioned that SAP AG uses Ecplise as the base for its Netweaver Developer Studio
Jack
[edit] Intro
Is the first sentence here really sufficient? Eclipse has a Rich Client Platform, but is it proper to say that Eclipse' purpose is rich client applications? --Ej0c 13:38, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
- This intro seems to blur the terms eclipse and SWT into one, which gives the illusion that eclipse is an SWT development environment (and nothing more). Yea, eclipse can help develop software other than 'rich client applications', but SWTs purpose is solely for 'rich client applications' - 202.138.196.146 22:25, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
- Answer to Ej0c is no. Statement 1 and 2 of the intro is quite misleading. Roarjo 20:21, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] UML Tools
What is the rationale of listing here a set of UML tools that are completely unrelated to Eclipse?
[edit] EasyEclipse
Some mention should be made about EasyEclipse, it would seem a good place for people to start with eclipse. http://www.easyeclipse.org Mathiastck 23:17, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] List of projects with Eclipse specific plugins
We need a List of projects with Eclipse specific plugins. Perhaps it should have a better title. We should also list the number of sites that host their own version of eclipse, with their own plugins built in, like Jboss and Sybmian Carbide. Mathiastck 23:55, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] JRE requirement
No mention in the article that JAVA jre needs to be installaed to run Eclipse —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.138.1.15 (talk • contribs) at 10:12, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- Of course not, that's pretty logical. And apart from the JRE, you also need a compiler and several other tools to write Java programs. All of this can be found in the JDK. - Face 16:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Related page Eclipse Modeling Project
Eclipse Modeling Project - Is not quite upto scratch in terms of the tone that is used. Could use some help.--Konst.ableTalk 08:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Java Emitter Template(s)
This page is the object of a redirect from Java Emitter Templates but does not mention why. Could someone who understands please add something to justify this link, eg. 'formerly or otherwise known as Java Emitter Templates'. Thanks. 202.64.168.196 09:51, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Capital letter
I wonder if it's Eclipse or eclipse? - Face 18:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- It is Eclipse with the first e capitalized. See Proper Usage of "Eclipse" Trademark's point #3. --Remy Suen 23:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks for the clarification! - Face 16:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Article too list-y
There's too many flat lists in this article, mainly in counting off the various subprojects. I think these should be removed if there is nothing of encyclopedic interest to say about them. The list of subprojects can always be linked to as an external reference over at eclipse.org. I myself will flesh out an entry on CDT, the single most popular subproject, but the others... Ham Pastrami 04:27, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone have an objection to the removal of the lists? They seem to be inviting spam, so if nobody is going to flesh out the entries, I'll delete them on my next visit. Ham Pastrami 11:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
- Seriously, delete the whole lot. Better having a short article with room to grow than a huge, stagnant series of lists of questionable importance. Chris Cunningham 16:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
- I agree that the lists need to be changed. I suggest making a separate article with the list. (i.e. List of Eclipse-based products) I Love Pi 00:23, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
What on earth are you talking about??? "Too list-y" ????????????????? Have you gone mad?
1. First, what is the content of the article?
Eclipse is a framework that supports features and plugins. It has many plugins and features. The article is going to be about features and plugins.
2. What's the best way to present it?
As a list.
3. Lists are "unencyclopedic". So delete them all....?????? WHAT?
Lists are formatting. Come back when you have a problem with the actual content. —Pengo 22:59, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
- I do have a problem with the content: it's in violation of WP:Notability. If there's nothing worth saying about these "features" and "plugins" other than their names, they're obviously not notable. Since you're the only one who is in favor of keeping, and for poorly justified reasons, I'm going to make the edits. Ham Pastrami 01:40, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Why it's called "Eclipse"?
It's quite interesting to think about why they call it "Eclipse"? Is it because they want to cast shadow on the Sun (considering stuffs such as SWT which was a completely divergence from what Sun has originally planned)? -- or a Pink Floy answer: "Everything under the Sun is in tune, but the Sun is eclipsed by the moon". Sweeper77 23:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- I believe your first answer has been suggested many times when Eclipse first came about, but IBM have never confirmed it (AFAIK). Oddly the word "Sun" does not appear once in the article. —Pengo 22:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
- This issue is brought up quite often and the answer is that the name is supposed to be for eclipsing Visual Studio. Unfortunately, I don't have a link handy, but if you google around you may be able to hit such an article. --Remy Suen 03:01, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
And don't forget, an eclipse is only temporary...so maybe that relation would not be a very good one...--199.246.40.54 15:56, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Improvements to introduction
I think the opening paragraph of this article could use some work.
My complaints below. If no one else has comments I'll make some changes? I've never done this before so bear with me.
"Eclipse is an open-source, platform-independent software framework, written primarily in Java, for delivering what the project calls "rich-client applications", as opposed to "thin client" browser-based applications.[citation needed]"
- I've added the "citation needed" -- I don't see anything on the Eclipse homepage linked in the references section which indicates this. I'm also a software developer familiar with Eclipse and I don't think the IDE bears any such bias.
- it's not really platform independent due to the use of the platform-specific SWT library. It's probably more accurate to say it's available on several major platforms.
- break the first sentence after "written primarily in Java", and eliminate the second sentence.
"So far this framework has typically been used to develop Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), such as the Java IDE called Java Development Toolkit (JDT) and compiler (ECJ) that comes as part of Eclipse (and which are also used to develop Eclipse itself). However, it can be used for other types of client application as well."
- There are a few grammatical errors in this sentence.
- From the perspective of a software developer, which is probably the perspective of a large portion of Eclipse users, Eclipse as an IDE (meaning JDT or CDT) is much more prominent than Eclipse as a framework for developing other IDEs.
- How do we know these are used to develop Eclipse itself? It is likely — but at best it is irrelevant; at worst wrong; and somewhere in the middle, only partly true (something must've been used to develop Eclipse before it was usable for development itself).
- "It can be used for other types of client application as well..." -- this statement is not well-qualified. Is it useful for writing IDEs? or is SWT useful for writing other client apps such as Azureus?
"Eclipse is also a community of users, constantly extending the covered application areas."
- "Eclipse" could not possibly be a community of users. "The Eclipse community" or "An open-source community supports Eclipse..." would be better opening statements. Aside from this -- this probably belongs in the history of Eclipse and how it was open-sourced by IBM, not in the opening as we've already discussed that Eclipse is not in and of itself a community of users.
- "constantly extending" -- opinion, not fact.
- users who do not consider themselves part of the Eclipse community could very well contribute to the effort of expanding Eclipse.
"An example is the recently created Eclipse Modeling Project, covering most areas of Model Driven Engineering."
- MDE/MD design has nothing to do with Eclipse, and including this as an arbitrary example has no ostensible purpose. Providing examples of Eclipse projects in the below section should provide plenty of detail for the reader.
"Eclipse was originally developed by IBM as the successor to its VisualAge family of tools. It is now managed by the Eclipse Foundation, an independent not-for-profit consortium of software industry vendors. Many software tool vendors have embraced Eclipse as a future framework for their IDEs."
- passive voice in first and second sentences
- references needed for first and second sentences
- What does the Eclipse Foundation manage? The direction of Eclipse? The introduction of new modules? Hiring full-time developers to support Eclipse? Bug tracking? Who are the vendors? Let's just omit this and let someone else flesh out the "Eclipse Foundation" section.
- third sentence is largely meaningless/unqualified and again the tool vendors/frameworks section would exposit this detail adequately.
MM962 03:14, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Plug-ins
Plug-ins are an essential part of Eclipse and we don't really mention them on the page. The ability of the program to work with Subversion, Bugzilla, Team Track, UML editors, database connecting, MyEclipse (jsp support), Hibernate, and spring plug-ins makes this IDE much more attractive to developing than other Java IDEs. I find it very strange that this page doesn't like to a list of eclipse plug-ins. Plug-ins seem to only be mentioned to note that Eclipse can support other programming languages.
Should there be a plug-in section in the article? Should a new article be created for plug-ins and then linked to this page?
svanloon Steve Van Loon 19:46, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
- Plugin architecture is an essential part of Eclipse. The breadth and width of all plugins ever created are not. The See also section links to an article with a list of plugins. Ham Pastrami 06:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
A couple of minor points here. I seem to remember the early development of Eclipse slightly differently. In late 1990's, there was a mass revolt of IBM users regarding VisualAge, an attempt by OTI to shove a "SmallTalk" like software development paradigm down the throats of IBM customers. After hearing about a series of incidents at IBM user groups, one of the first "Extreme Blue" IBM interns developed the first skunkworks prototype of the Eclipse Universal Tool Framework, which IBM eventually forced OTI into developing into the first versions of the official OTI Eclipse project. From what I remember, the VisualAge developers at OTI resisted it as long as they could 24.13.3.162 (talk) 07:00, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Meaning of Eclipse release names from Greek Mythology
Dear Ham Pastrami,
we seem to be of different opinions as to the relevance of an explanation of the origin of Eclipse Release names (Callisto, Europa, Ganymede etc.).
Let me explain what got me into the subject at first. My colleague instructed me to install the Eclipse Europa edition for a certain project. Living in Europe, I thought that would be a version specially tailored for Europe - as opposed to America or other continents. Subsequently, I learned that "Europa" is the name given to Eclipse v 3.3. Then, I found out about the naming rule: a satellite of the planet Jupiter for each release. As I knew Europa was Phoenician princess abducted to Cyprus by Zeus in the guise of a bull, I came across the fact that astronomers(!) have chosen names of lovers and beloveds of Zeus for all of Jupiter's satellites - quite appropriate for such a huge planet that bears the name of the leading Greek/Roman deity.
Now, I do think that this naming rule would also be of interest to the developers and numerous users of different Eclipse versions. I do not think this background information is "completely irrelevant". I never used the word "sex" in my three line explanation. Neither ancient Greeks, nor the astronomers naming Jupiter's satellites had any problems with the sory behind this naming rule.
I cannot imagine that Eclipse developers and users are so prudish in the 21st century that they would like to ignore these facts just because they have to do with a Greek god who was in no way monogamous, nor purely heterosexual. Are Eclipse developers monogamous? Are they hetero? Or are they religious in an orthodox way? For each attribute the answer is: some are, others aren't.
I therefore feel that the information does belong into this article, as it increases knowledge and understanding. There is no censureship applicable, certainly not to facts from 2500 year old Greek mythology.
I am anxious to read your reply, and possibly, comments from other Wikipedia authors on this topic. Meanwhile, I re-include my three lines in the article while we discuss them - so others have a chance to read what we are discussing about.
gpermant Germany 141.7.72.95 (talk) 11:20, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
- This is an interesting letter to show your grandkids but ultimately has nothing to do with what is appropriate content for this article. Please explain what Greek/Roman mythology has to do with software development. The Eclipse releases were named after moons of a planet, not the gods themselves. That pretty much is the end of the discussion as far as Eclipse is concerned. If you want to discuss the history of Greek/Roman deities, why can't you do so at the appropriate articles, as I previously suggested? For example, you have Callisto (mythology) and Europa (mythology) to talk all you want about the mythology. Readers can, at their discretion, search for any of these terms or the related mythology and arrive at the appropriate articles to learn more. Why do you insist on including this content in an article about software? Why not do it in every other article that is tangentially related? Surely you can understand the absurdity of discussing this topic in fringe articles rather than in their main articles. I don't care about sexual themes; I am using it to demonstrate why it has no relevance to Java development software. That is why it is cruft, and that is why I am removing it until you come up with a logical, reasonable explanation for why you want to discuss the mythology here. In other words, explain how the mythology relates to the software, not why you personally find mythology interesting. From what I can see, the only relation between the mythology and the software are the names, and that relation is already noted. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information -- that is policy, and that is why your comments will be removed by me. If you wish to keep them somewhere for other editors to review, put them here on this talk page, not in the article. Ham Pastrami (talk) 18:18, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] C#
Can Eclipse be used to write C#? After having used both Eclipse and Visual Studio, Eclipse feels more comfortable. JIP | Talk 17:44, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
