User talk:EastmeetsWest

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Welcome!

Hello, EastmeetsWest, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! 

Hello. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary. Thanks, and happy editing.

Xiner (talk, email) 01:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Hello - question re: Episcopal Diocese of Dallas

Hello,

Could you double-check something for me? I thought Dallas was not seeking alternative oversight. Could you explain more about the Anglican movement article and perhaps share a current source or two with me regarding that?

Thanks, Sarum blue 23:21, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello, to answer your question on my talk page, I am referring to the reference you made to the Diocese of Dallas on Anglican movement article. I believe you are incorrect, but I am not certain. So I was asking for your reference. Again - I could be quite wrong, but I think I have heard that Dallas is not and never did seek alternative oversight. When it was first included with the other areas, the inclusion was incorrect. Since you had made the statement on that article, I was hoping you would research this and clarify.

[edit] Anglican realignment

Thanks for your comment! I think the main issue is the whole notion of "realignment." Anglicanism has been realigning since it was founded, whether it be the Methodists or Plymouth Brethren or those who still call themselves Anglican, like the Reformed Episcopal Church or the Anglican Catholic Church. The desire I have, in any event, is to bring some historical context to the article. Fishhead64 04:28, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Re: Realignment - You are correct that the suggestion of alternative primatial oversight is novel in the context of Anglican realignment, but it does have a historical lineage - that was my only concern. :As to the other matter, please see Talk:Roman Catholic Church. I am as happy with your proposed solution as mine. There is no ulterior motive here on my part - I simply want to see categorization occur that does not accord special status to any strain of corporate expression of Christianity. Fishhead64 06:13, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] CC vs RCC

Hi East,

I am very happy to have met you through this site. You see I am trying to gather some Catholic unity and organization in order to appeal the article name from the erroneous "Roman" Catholic Church. You and any other Eastern Catholics will be critical. You I see you and all easterm brethren as central to our effort. Eastern Catholism and its 22 other rites are what makes the Church Catholic-universal. Your effort in making this clear to those ingorant to Eastern Catholicism will make a huge difference. Many that derive from the Western schism do not understand that they left the Catholic Church not only the Latin Rite.

I will study the subject on how to get this changed utilizing the proper naming change policies. I appreciate your help, and sharing of info.

In addition to the usual points of discussion I am also providing a difference reasons not mentioned before. Namely that the status quo does not provide a neutral point of view. That the only way to achieve this is by consensus of articles, you see, both Catholic and Catholicism articles represent the Protestant/Anglican POV. Thus, if we can change the name to simply CC then the overall consensus of articles with the non-Catholic POV vs Catholic POV would at least be 2:1 and lead to a proper NPOV via consensus of articles. Also, I am trying to present a historical point. There are Church Fathers which originally coined the term "Cathoic Church". I will point out that the church that they described is the same a todays Petrine Church, adding powerful historical evidence for what church deserves the right to be called the "Catholic Church" , emphasizing that this is not a religious or POV arguement but simply historica fact.

Lastly, as an Eastern rite Catholic you are of ultmost importance in the push to correct this problem. Eastern Rite Catholics are notoriously the most ignored in this discussion, obviously by non-Catholics, but as well by Latin Catholics, mostly out of ignorance. Thus, if you can add your input showing them how inpropriate it is to use the term, you certaily would be adding another powerful weapon for success.

The following is a generic post I am sending so you can be familiar with the most important and common points of discussion:

"The points you make, replete with the claims of injustice and oppression (despite the fact that there are several Roman Catholic editors who support the current name or don't care about the issue one way or the other) have all been made before, as Archive 7 above will reveal in all its prolix glory. I invite you to read it if, for nothing else, the strange sense of deja vu it will likely inspire in you, as it does in me. Cheers."

This it the type of patronizing rhetoric I've received from what I consider at this point, outwardly Anti-Catholic editors in this site. I know there is a good faith policy, sure, but the repeated disrespect and blatantly forward condescending attitude is just too obvious to conclude anything less.

I am aware you have supported the change of the article for the proper name "Catholic Church" in the past. I am determined to have our voice heard again and have this issue reviewed and hopefully repealed. However, there is no way I can do this myself, I need you help and anyone else that may assist us. (by the way where the due process ?)

My most significant points for change are found in the one of my latest post as follows:

1)Using a geographic description in addition to the title of a Church has to be one of the poorest excuses. What is not understood is that regardless of additional descriptive properties "Catholic" Church IS the common title of the Petrine Church in the equivalent manner as "Anglican" Church is the common title of the Church of England...regardless of any descriptive meanings of the words "Catholic or Anglican". If anything it proves how inappropriate it is to impose an extrinsic adjective upon an institution that is not titled in such a manner. If that is allowed then where does it end. Why not add to the Greek the Athenian Orthodox Church, or say London Anglican Church since the symbolic head of the Anglican communion resides there.
2)Since "Catholic Church" is NOT a description, but the title of the lone Church titled as such, by far, historically, in the present and by the world at large it deserves to be title as such. It is not ambiguous, Anglicans do not say they are going to the Catholic Church, do they? Thus, no point in pulling out the ambiguity alibi Also, the article describes one Church, it is not a comparative study of several churches, no confusion to be entertained.
3)The personal ignorance of a Catholic which refers to himself as Roman Catholic is not an excuse to go by such a term. Many of these same Catholics are the same ignorant Catholics that think Catholics of other rites are not real Catholics. Thus, ignorance is no reason, if any a reason for proper education.
4)The listing of a Parish as Roman Catholic is reference to the Rite not the Church at large(albeit slang, where "Roman" is interchanged for "Latin") just as Byzantine Catholic churches are frequently listed as Greek Catholic Church. Since this article is discussing the Church at large and not the Rite, the usage within the church by the "listing" excuse does not apply to this article.
5)The Church in the few instances where it does add the descriptive adjective "Roman" it is used in reference to its Petrine primacy and only when describing or comparing the Church with other schimatic churches. This fact, is perfectly exemplified in Pope Pius XII's encylical Humani Generis where he mearly mentions "Roman Catholic Church" as he speaks of churches not in full communion. Because, in that entire encyclical Puis referrs to the Church as simply "The Church" vs RCC 46 times to 1.
6)Since, this article is NOT from within the Church there is no way to confirm that it is not mentioned pejoratively, thus the additional push to disregard this disrespectful term. Face it, the only way to prove an article's description is not meant pejoratively is only if it comes from within the Church. (Wikipedia should not pretend that anti-Catholicism does not exist)
7)There is no neutral point of view where both sides are equally respected. Since, the Protestant/Anglican POV is represented in everycase (i.e., Catholic, Catholicism- both presented by their descriptive meaning); and the lone institution which presents itself to the world as simply the "Catholic Church", as a title, it should be respresented as such. The lone way to achieve some type NPOV is by consensus non-Catholic POV 2 articles to Catholic POV 1..


Wikipedia is not a Protestant or Anglican outlet. I mean really how many Protestants, Anglicans, or Orthodox refer to themselves as "Catholic", yet that article is presented from the non-Catholic POV(as well as Catholicism). Yet, the Catholic is supposed to shut up and take it - fine, I'll take that for the terms "Catholic and Catholicism". However, we are not allowed the common title of our Church in the name of outlandish excuses, instead the Catholic is supposed to swallow a term imposed by others outside the church, Anti-Catholicism, as is the preferred connotation of those against the Petrine Church.[9] [10] Where are the concessions coming from the non-Catholics? The injustice is truly preposterous! "

Additionally, and possibly the strongest point is historical. (What do you think about this?..) How did the initial author of the term "Catholic Church" describe that church as and does it still exist? Yes,, and there is documented proof that leaves no doubt that it is the present day Petrine Church and its 23 churches in full communion. (I am presently researching the material, it is facinating!) If anyone or any group has the right to be named by such a term it should be the actual institution which the original author and his companions were referring to.


Thank you very much for your support Micael 05:42, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Greetings

...From a fellow Eastern Catholic. Majoreditor 17:41, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anointing of the Sick (Catholic Church)

Did you know that your article Anointing of the Sick (Catholic Church) seems to have much of the same content as the existing Anointing of the Sick article? Are you splitting it out? Thanks. --EarthPerson 04:28, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


Yes, I am working on it right now. Thanks.

[edit] Brandy Station

I see you have taken it upon yourself to revert an edit I made in the Gettysburg Campaign article. It appears that it is unknown to you that the Battle of Brandy Station was the largest cavalry battle in US History as well as the largest to ever take place on the North American continent. Admittedly, this is a fact known primarily to those who have actually studied the battle.

It is clearly appropriate to request a citation for a claimed fact. However, it is unnecessary to simply delete relevant information because it is unknown to you. BTW, this is a fact that is easily verifiable through a simple google search. If you are interested in making significant contributions to WP, you would do well to spend less effort playing gate keeper and a just a bit of time checking facts unfamiliar to you. This is also a good way to educate yourself on the unfamiliar. EastmeetsWest 04:09, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

I have addressed this issue on the talk page for Battle of Brandy Station. I did not delete the claim because it was unknown to me. I was offering you the opportunity to provide an appropriate citation that it was the largest in US history, which you have not been able to do so far. There are two ways that I deal with information added to articles that require citations: (1) add a [citation needed] flag; (2) delete and ask for citation when the info is restored. Whether I select the first or the second is a judgment call on my part that is dependent on whether I believe the citation is likely to emerge or not. I think it is annoying to have articles that have these citation flags littered around for a couple of weeks while I wait for somebody to come up with a citation. By the way, Google searching does not always come up with the correct information.
Also, the significant contributions I have made so far consists of writing these articles, not simply gatekeeping them. Hal Jespersen 17:09, 26 August 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Ste Mere Eglise Paratroopers from Heaven.jpg

Image Copyright problem

Thank you for uploading Image:Ste Mere Eglise Paratroopers from Heaven.jpg. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Wikipedia takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. STBotI (talk) 23:02, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Just as an FYI, when creating articles as you did here, you should include references and third-party citations for notabiliy. Without this, the article will probably wind up as a candidate for speedy deletion regardless of how well-written or factful the article is. If you have any questions or need help with anything, feel free to contact me here. Cheers!--Sallicio\color{Red} \oplus 06:11, 13 March 2008 (UTC)