Talk:East Francia

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Beginning of the Holy Roman Empire in Question !

In my view it has political reasons ( the EU and the Frensh view of history) why the coronation of Karl the great is not seen as the beginning of the holy roman empire. It is logical that this is so because:

1.Before there was only the Emperor von East Rom the emperors of West Rom was an invention of the Pope as Protector of the Pope and Rome. So the emperor was seen as worldly man of God on the throne. In the Moment the Pope put the Crone on the Head of Karl the Great this Imperer was in the West as Christian Roman protecting Imperor first time existing. So : 'Holy Roman Empire from 25.December 800'

2. A split sais nothing. Actualy the Franconian country was splitting 3 times but the German part inherreded Rom so the east is the true sucessor, what ever the Frensh are thinking- they splited from the empire not the other way around

3. The main Capital Aachen and the most holy place Comprai ( St Martin Protector of the empire) was still in the east.

4. This time the border they splittet along, ( third split) was the languageline because beween them where huge uninhanited woods, witch later would become Frensh by settling( The Latin Population splittet from the Frankonian part but caped the name)

5.What was the name of the empire Frankonian empire. Who where the Frankonians. The midle Germans . To day: Rheinland, Hessen ( Frankfurt!)and northern Bavaria called then Upperfrankonians, the Dutch called then Lower Frankonians.

6 Was Karl the Great frensh? His mother was from Colonge, so the first what he heard was old German and later Latin. He was born on the Langugeline near Lüttich his father was probably frensh - german mixed, so Karl the Great was 3/4 Germanic and spoke besides Latin.

This all together shows that the real founding date of the Holy Roman Empire was the Christmasday 800 when the Pope put the crown on the head of Karl the Great.

See articel "Holy Roman Empire"

This was seen like this all the way thrue history till the EU was founded and the Germans had to be nice to the Frensh, suddenly this logical view changed and a lot of books where written why the Holy Roman Empire was founded 911 or 962. and not 800. ( 911 was the date seen by the German Empire 1870 till 1918, it was fitting for them to cover the connection with the Frensh history) In 962 the borders where about like the German boders now political very fitting for the newly founded federal Republic. Calming down and covering the losses of the war with a historical map wich shows Germany in the Beginning simelar like now.

Why the Frensh kept the name ? Till the revolution the nobility traced it rights from being from Frankonian desendent. That was probably allthaugh the reason why they kept this name for the country.

In Germany soon the Frankonians where not so importend as a tribe anymore. The Saxons became the importend tribe, later the Shwabian (Allemanic) So there had to be a new name for all 5 Germanic tribes ( Alemanic, Franconian, Saxon, Bavarian, Thueringish - still the main dialects).This name was found during the middle age, the people said they speak the language of the people witch means in Latin: Deotish from this came Duitsch, Dutch, Deutsch.

Why they did not call themself Germans. Eighter the christian Priests where not happy about this or because they knew to well that there are Germans in England and in the Scandinavic areas too.

Johann