User talk:Dystopos/Archive 1

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This is an archive of comments left during 2004 and 2005. For the current discussion page, see User talk:Dystopos. For archived discussion from 2006, see User talk:Dystopos/Archive 2

Contents

[edit] Birmingham

I see you removed my last edit. I think that it's quite factually accurate to have both of those facts there. One, the pronunciation is different from the Birmingham in England, as they pronounce it Birming'um. Also, the colloquialism should be noted somewhere, if not in the beginning. For example, the search for B'ham on Yahoo gets 105,000 hits, the most notable of which relate to the city in Alabama. Mike H 05:18, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Sign your posts

  • r3m0t lectured me about signing posts. 20:37, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Deletion policy/Area codes

This discussion seems to have run its course, so I have closed it and drawn conclusions. Could you please briefly look at the conclusions and note on the talk page if you agree? Thanks, Radiant_* 09:38, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Re: List of Alabama railroads

There are two issues here: 1) "&" vs. "and" 2) AAR reporting marks vs. other abbreviations. For the first issue, we have an agreed upon standard in Wikipedia:WikiProject Trains that article titles should use the word "and" rather than "&" (see the discussion archive); formatting the links to use "and" allows the links to all point to the same place and keeps a consistent look throughout all railroad-related articles. As to using reporting marks, that's the de-facto standard for all List of STATE railroads articles; it's a matter of consistency. On the individual articles themselves, all of the abbreviations that have been used can be listed, but on pages that refer to them in lists, we should use all one convention. Since we've started with reporting marks, it's an easy enough convention to follow.

The Frisco Railroad vs. Railway was changed because our article on the railroad is titled Railway instead of Railroad. Changing it on the list fixes the link to the proper page.

HTH. slambo 15:10, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Slovenians/Slovenes

Hi! Can you come and comment the policy draft I wrote? I do not wish to introduce unclear things or some non-sense as WP's policy. Besides this, grammar also needs to be corrected. Thanks very much. --Eleassar

Can you have a look at another comment of the policy at Talk:Slovenians (proposed by BT2, with my signature). Would you support it? Thanks. --Eleassar my talk 18:25, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Inclusion not Deletion

(AIW) can you take a look at Wikipedia "apartheid"? There is a movement to delete a two-word inclusion that is fact and true. It's gotten to the point that everyone is focused on the disputing editors and not the edit itself.

" Deletionists are disputing the following statement: "South Africa was settled initially by the Dutch, Germans and French from the 17th century onwards. English, other European settlers, and Diaspora Jews followed in the 19th century." This statement is true, and it therefore should not be deleted.69.217.125.53 15:10, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Apartheid

Thanks!69.217.123.174 19:07, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I was also spammed with this, it is not an inclusionist/deletionist issue, it's an edit war. — PhilHibbs | talk 08:31, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Missouri Compromise in Nickajack

The Missouri compromise seems to me to be central to the political calculations that led to secession. The rewording makes it seem like the apportionment of votes was a strictly local practice, when it was in fact a direct translation of apportionment via the federal census. Dystopos 05:52, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Well, first of all, the Missouri Compromise (in 1820) had nothing to do with the apportionment of Congress, which was decided by the Constitutional Convention in 1787. (Were you perhaps thinking of the Connecticut Compromise?) The apportionment of legislatures in the slave states was a recurring subject of dispute -- Virginia and North Carolina had the same problem, in fact it was one of the things that led to the creation of West Virginia. Although this was closely related to the apportionment issue faced by the Constitutional Convention, it wasn't controlled by the federal constitution but by individual state constitutions, so it wouldn't really be correct to say that the composition of the Alabama convention was determined by any decision at the national level. Russ Blau (talk) 21:01, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Did you know?

Updated DYK query Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Nickajack, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently-created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

— Knowledge Seeker দ 08:01, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Updated DYK query Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Archie Campbell, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently-created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

— Violetriga দ 15:00, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] RPOV

Your view on deleting the Irish-American Mayors seems to have come from a racial stand point. Do you have a problem with the Irish? 64.109.253.204 04:08, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

  • I don't understand your question. First, I expressed no view on deleting Irish-American Mayors. Second, I expressed no opinion on race. I have no problem with the Irish. I am more than a little Irish myself. The rational conclusion to make based on my comment was that if African-American Congressman merit a well-written article, then Irish Mayors probably do, as well. The comparison is inexact, as I said, because African-Americans were categorically removed from voting in the history of the U.S. in ways that the Irish have not been. I put forth for discussion whether the difference was enough to invalidate the comparison which would otherwise favor keeping the article proposed for deletion. Dystopos 04:16, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Irish-Americans have a rich history in urban politics in America and this is why so many mayors of major cities have been Irish-Americans. A list of all Irish-American Mayors can be very useful and interesting. 64.109.253.204 04:31, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

  • I encourage you to make your arguments on the VfD page where this is being actively discussed. I have expressed no opinion on the matter and I don't care to be drawn into an argument here. Dystopos 04:35, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Megachurches

And me a good Presbyterian, too! Deb 20:42, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] VfD

What or who gave you the right to remove my sentences on VfD? Is this a sort of compaign against truth-speakers? If you continue doing this, I will request action against you. Mandel 21:48, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

I am not making a personal attack. Personal attacks have no basis or evidence. I'm stating that you people are forming a pro-school bloc for the sole purpose of making it difficult to have any meaningful discussion about in VfD. This shouldn't happen in VfD. This very action of yours just gave me the best evidence to demonstrate your POV-pushing and bullying. Mandel 22:00, July 30, 2005 (UTC)
Maybe I've misinterpreted your stance. Unfortunately I've never agreeable to deleting statements in the first place. Such an action will easily be misinterpreted by either parties as favoritism. Secondly, sarcastic, snide remarks abound everywhere in Wikipedia, and if you would want to delete one, you might as well delete everything. Thirdly, note that it was Mr Tony who has called me a liar in no uncertain term, first. Isn't it strange that you allowed Tony to make such rude and prudish remarks without censoring them? So my reaction against his blatant namecalling, misrepresentation - to assert that it is he rather than me who has been rude and misrepresenting - is hardly a personal attack, rather to remind him what it is that he has really said. Mandel 22:32, July 30, 2005 (UTC)
Had I not been taking such a strong stance against his blatant misrepresentation, do you think he will remove them? I could sneak away disgusted like many other Wikipedians, never to return, or never to vote against schools. However, I will not, rude as I may seem, wither against such bullying. If I state something that may jar against the ear, that's because certain things require positive confrontation. I hope Wikipedia will protect my right to speak up against such Wikipedians; I don't naively project good will in all people, and I know an insult when I see one. A newbie may come and think: "Man, this guy is an admin! What the hell is Wikipedia?" He or she may never return again. At any rate, if I misrepresent you, I apologize, although I still don't agree with policies (whatever it is) to remove such statements. Mandel 23:01, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

Dystopos, I have no horse in this race, but I think that deleting text that is not actually beyond the pale (and frankly, Mandel's weren't -- it's not like he started calling people wifebeating childrapers or something) when it touches on a subject that you have expressed opinions on is tasteless. In other words, I think that if you are "involved" in a dispute on one side or another, it looks like an abuse to suddenly decide to apply WP:RPA. I'm not bringing you up on charges or recommending that you should be or anything like that. I'm just saying that I think this is the sort of situation where it is good to look like Caesar's wife, and you don't. Just my $0.02. Nandesuka 23:05, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes, in future, please be prudent when exercising this rule. It is extremely irritating when someone removes what you write without proper reason. Mandel 02:28, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] On School VfD

Officially, yes, substubs and stubs ought to be improved. However, in the cases of high and elementary schools, because they are inherently local-based, outsiders don't and won't know enough to improve them. Substubs are particularly grating because people (irresponsible school kids, probably) have been producing them at an alarming rate. The second problem has to do with notability. School inclusionists argue that all schools are notable. However, a lot of the others don't agree. If they don't agree with this basic fact, they wouldn't bother even to search out the data to expand them. In fact, a lot of those expansions still strike us as being unnotable - better written, but still unnotable. Every school has a band, a principal or headmaster, an address, so what's making this particular elementary school or high school more notable than the others? Lastly, including each and every school on the planet would amount to possible millions of articles more - a rate where no one would be able to keep up with them.

I'm not an inclusionist or a deletionist, but I think at the present, where school articles are produced at such a subpar level, you would only be encouraging garbage if you include each and every school article in Wikipedia. Wikipedians don't have a responsibility to turn each article to gold; even if they have, they won't have the time. As with schools, if I named an abandoned school substub in say, China or Ethiopia, would they still survive VfD?

A much better idea, pleasing to everyone, would be a Wikischool Wiki independent of Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and should remain as such, and traditionally, nobody searches for elementary schools in an encyclopedia. If kept independent, this would prevent the truly awful subpar work from soiling the reputation of Wikipedia.

As for assuming good faith, I can't admit to have even an iota of belief in it after this episode. Mandel 02:28, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion#Admira Ismić and Boško Brkić

You voted in the VfD for Admira Ismić and Boško Brkić. I believe that this article was deleted without a clear consensus, and have nominated the article for undeletion. If you would like to contribute to the VfU discussion, please follow the link above. Thanks for your time! Pburka 00:31, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Please do not remove content from Wikipedia; it is considered vandalism. If you want to experiment, please use the sandbox. Thank you. - template added by User:Xed. (Not sure why) Dystopos 23:16, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Stop inserting "Mostly Harmless" - Xed 00:03, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Natalee Holloway

The last edit you reverted, although suspicious because it came from an unregistered IP and was not explained in the edit summary, did not appear to me to be vandalism. That section of the article was quite wordy with a lot of extraneous info. I told the user I'd support him/her if they wanted to revert to their edited version as long as they could offer some rationale in the talk page. Dystopos 23:04, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

That sounds reasonable; it worries me whenever large chunks of an article are deleted without so much as a one-liner explanation in the edit summary. If you are in favor of these changes, I will not revert any subsequent removals by this anon IP. Hall Monitor 23:12, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
The user's re-write seemed lucid, factual and NPOV. I'm planning (if I have time) to look at what other information was cast aside and restore the bulk of the edit. Maybe someone else will get around to it before I have a chance. Just as a note of caution, accusations of vandalism are fairly serious and narrowly-defined. The policy of Wikipedia:Assume good faith is an important part of the community. Thanks again for your watchful eye. Dystopos 23:21, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
You're right -- I'm going to address this by creating my own template when large amounts of information are removed from an article without any explanation. The template {{test2a}} contains verbiage which inherently does not assume good WP:FAITH. Hall Monitor 23:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cleaning up POV/rumors

Dystopos; we were working on this at the same time, but you submitted your edit first. Yours pretty much covers everything I'd done and more. The wording can be tricky in these "supporters" and "detractors" sections, but you handled it well. For the record, I don't know enough about the case to have a bias one way or the other. The "Law & Order" episode that aired last night piqued my interest, however.

[edit] FilePile

Why pretend you're not a member, and that you didn't know anything about it? What's the point - Xed 23:38, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I haven't denied being a member, though I have denied having knowledge about the site. It's a non-notable private file-sharing site that I visit infrequently. I don't know its history. I don't know its creators. I don't know anything encyclopedic about it at all. That's the point. Dystopos 23:44, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
You're a member, but don't know about it? Right. - Xed 23:54, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
I also signed up for an account with the Globe & Mail today in order to read an article. That doesn't mean I know anything about the Globe & Mail. Who knows what else I signed up for in 2001. Classmates.com, maybe? If you're accusing me of acting in bad faith, then show me somewhere that I have. I don't really know the history of FilePile. I do know that no one seems to be able to establish if it merits an article. Dystopos 00:07, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
Why did you change .org to .com. Trying to hide something? That's the funniest thing I've seen all day. - Xed 00:20, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
Man, you need to find someplace to get some humor in your life. Have you tried ebaumsworld.com? - --Ceart99 02:10, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Why change .org to .com. Any reason? - Xed 08:01, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

The change was suggested to me by e-mail after you brought it to light. I thought it was reasonable since filepile.org apparently prefers to remain private. Dystopos 00:22, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Regarding Xed's vice-like grip on the fact that Jason mentioned the site by name, I'd like to point out that 1. He had just quoted me a few paragraphs up. 2. Jason is a friend of mine, we built Dropcash together. 3. Xed is not familiar enough with blogs to know that mentioning someone's project is kind of like showing them respect since I apparently inspired his post in the first place. Had Xed read the article Jason wrote, he'd understand it was a nod toward a project I had started during those dark years because he had quoted me.AndreTorrez 00:01, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

What is the status of the FilePile project? I gather that some accounts are still active but the file-trading aspect has been more or less eclipsed by the "community" aspect? I'd ask you to send me my password again but I've seen how that community behaves here and I think I prefer Wikipedians to Filepilers, (with a few exceptions.) - at least we're accomplishing something. No offense. Dystopos 00:18, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
Why are you asking here, since you are a member of FilePile? There's an interesting "discuss" thread you could ask this in. - Xed 00:50, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
I was responding to AndreTorrez's comment on this page. Since he is the creator of FilePile I would assume he would have a more authoritative answer than could be expected from the discussion page. Dystopos 01:36, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] User:Vega007 and Mark Chmura

I noticed that you have had recent discussions with User:Vega007 regarding his/her edits to the Natalee Holloway article. Would you mind adding the Mark Chmura article to your watchlist as well? The article has been vandalised once already by the same user, and I am concerned that it may happen again. Hall Monitor 19:28, 18 August 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Natalee Holloway

Thank you for censoring the political background that I added. I was not surprised: What you folks call 'neutral' point of view is really a biased pro-American point of view, isn't it? Any information that is not welcome within that constraint will be censored by saying the American media do not report it that way. But even the American media did report the invasion of Panama, Dystopos and there was nothing untrue in what I wrote. And yes the advisory capacity of the FBI was criticised on many occasions on US TV as well.

Please do not pretend to respect the Dutch: you don't.

af:Gebruiker:Jcwf

Please explain the relevance of the political background as you have described it to this article. Has the Medellin cartel played a part in this case? Is the possibility of US interference in a Surinamese dictatorship of the 1970s relevant? These facts have not been "censored" and I have not claimed they were untrue. They have been edited out of one article in which their only purpose is to criticize the Aruban government for being a tool of US agencies. This is a minor consideration in this article; it may be more appropriate for articles about the History of Aruba or United States foreign policy in the Caribbean.
A criticism is necessarily a point of view. You are welcome to add a cited reference for the importance of that POV (and no, it does not need to be from an American source). I removed your addition because it is not in line with WP policy and guidelines. I am not acting in bad faith or making false pretense. You are reminded to refrain from personal attacks. Dystopos 23:17, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
Sorry to bump into this old discussion but the Dutch, just like me, are getting the feeling that American media are reporting violent on this issue just because it is tolerant Holland. I've seen several reports on the internet from Fox News where's some columnist are saying that the main suspect Joran van der Sloot would not be a free man in the American System. And that Holland has a bad legal system. What JCWF wants to make clear is that the article is biased and to pro-american and that the article literally blaims the dutch for the girls disappearance. I've heard that every year more than 800,000 people in the US disappear (size of the city of Amsterdam), so why aren't media reporting about them? Regards, 213.73.149.61 11:20, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
I'm sorry for any possible rudeness or language mistakes. What I wanted to say is that the Dutch media are giving completely other facts than the article on Wikipedia is presenting. This makes some Dutch like JCWF angry because they think that it makes the article biased. What JCWF fails to make clear is that you guys are just victims of biased and paranoia media. Regards, 213.73.149.61 17:04, 2 October 2005 (UTC) or nl:Gebruiker:Geograaf

[edit] Thanks!

Thanks for the Bryce Hospital article. My great-great-grandfather was actually committed there around the turn of the century, and I've always been interested in its long history. jengod 00:16, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome, Jengod. There is, of course, much more to be written in that article. I hope you will continue to contribute. Dystopos 01:38, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Bryce State Mental Hospital, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

[edit] blog spam

Just because it is a blog doesn't mean it is spam! You should look at links before you remove them!

  • See relevant policy at Wikipedia:Spam#How not to be a spammer. Wikipedia is not a place to promote a web site. Neither is it a link farm. We are looking for facts, not pointers. If the blog has facts to contribute, then add them to the relevant articles and use the link as a reference for verifiability. If you think the link is valuable, then you are welcome to discuss its relevance on the discuss pages of the articles. In the mean time, I will continue to revert what appear to be gratuitous links. Dystopos 22:19, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for editing my introduction for Tulane's page. It was late at nite and I used a bad choice of words...

[edit] New Orleans

I'm about to run out of reverts on New Orleans. Ashley Y insists on placing a note about evacuation orders in the Infobox (where it doesn't belong) and in general, despite being in an obvious minority, continues to insinuate things should be moved to past tense. Anyhow, you reverted her yesterday and if you could just watch her again today that would be appreciated. If allowed to run its course the lead paragraph will state "N.O. was a city..." Marskell 09:08, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, I'm going to sleep. I've never had to and never thought I would have to (naive me) send anything to a request for arbitration but that's what I think I will do tomorrow if Ashley reinserts this. There is an incredibly frustating inability to acknowledge not only the consensus on this point but the nature of consensus itself on her part. Marskell 22:54, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
I suppose you're right. Just frustrated. Marskell 09:42, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps we need a wiki page "citizen/population defined". You removed "property owners, eligible voters, school registrees etc." from my N.O. note which was good in terms of wordiness but does, sans definition, beg the question: what is a citizen and why do you assume it without explanation? Marskell 00:06, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

M-W, citizen: "1. an inhabitant of a city or town; especially one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman" [1] [2]. It does usually refer to states but it hasn't ceased to refer to cities—if you can vote in a place you're citizen. Of course, you're right N.O. isn't the place to go over these things which is why I suggested a wiki page. I can't even find "Using/Misusing statistics" which seems an obvious subject. Marskell 09:10, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Indeed sir, it originally only referred to cities. In my neck of the woods the census remains a good faith form you simply mail back in...

Anyhow, tell me if you think this would be useful: User:Marskell/Using statistics Marskell 18:06, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Alabama state flag and .SVG

The Alabama flag should clearly be crimson and white, rather than bright red and white. I also think the image is clearer with a border around it. I would go ahead and revert the change, but I'm unfamiliar with the .SVG standard, which I gather from some discussion above on this page is becoming a standard for this type of image on WP. Any recommendations? Dystopos 22:20, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I actually modified the color to be exactly the shade used at crimson! Before I modified it, it looked like this. If you think the color should be changed, I have no objection, and it's quite easy: open Media:Flag of Alabama.svg in a text editor, search for "DC143C", and replace it with whatever hex triplet you choose. Also, I agree about the border, so I changed flag of Alabama to use a frame. dbenbenn | talk 22:30, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Birmingham News article

I was wondering if you have an information about the history because I was hoping to start an article about it soon since it now Birmingham's only major daily newspaper now. Leonard23 17:58, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Edit summary

Hello. Please remember to always provide an edit summary. Thanks and happy edits. Alphax τεχ 16:51, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jorn Barger

Please be aware that all of the detractors commenting on the Jorn Barger talk page are the same person. Additional information regarding this is available at Wikipedia:Vandalism_in_progress#Jorn_Barger_vandal. Hall Monitor 18:04, 28 September 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Thank you from 209 etc.etc.etc.

I posted comments in talk Natalee Holloway and just wanted to also thank you for your comments. It was a useful process and I hope the merged article is ok?

PS I signed up for an acct here.

Joaquin Murietta 00:44, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] careful

careful with those reverts!

Cheers,

Sam Spade 11:29, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] RfC on Copperchair

There is already an RfC pending on this problem editor. Please feel free to add evidence or endorse one or more of the summaries of the dispute. Thanks.--chris.lawson 00:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nicknames of Birmingham

"Da Ham" is a nickname the younger generation in Birmingham uses. Also like the nickname "The ATL" for Atlanta, "Da Ham" was a nickname created by the younger people who are part of the hip hop generation and those from the inner-city areas in the late 1990's and early 2000's. I know of numerous rap songs that have called Birmingham "Da Ham" from many local rap artists. -User:65.147.208.185 9:33 17 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] DYK

Updated DYK query Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Richard Arrington Jr., which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

[edit] Wiki Birthday!

Image:Wikiballoon1.jpg Wiki birthday to you! Wiki birthday, dear Dystopos! Wiki birthday to you!

Congratulations on your first Wikibirthday at Wikipedia (November 20, 2005.). On behalf of the community, we'd like to thank you for your countless edits in the past year! Keep it coming!.

This Wiki Birthday Balloon was awarded to you by: SoothingR

[edit] New Orleans, Louisiana census numbers

The latest population numbers for New Orleans, Louisiana are from the U.S. Census Bureau, which only counts people who permanantly reside, vote, and pay taxes there, not transients. Until the upcoming 2005 esitimates from the U.S. Census Bureau, which is schedule for release on June 30, 2006, tells us different than it's not recommended to change any information. --Moreau36; 1910, 22 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Message from John Gotti

Having people cleaning up after the fact just doesn't do it.

If someone punch you in the face, does it hurt any less if 600,000 doctors work on you afterward?

Nope, your face still got punch!

[edit] Jesus

Just so you know, I do not think you are disagreeing with me, because I did not (or certainly intended not to) take a side. I was merely pointing out two alternatives for how to manage the multiple points of view necessarily involved in the page. And I was merely pointing out that it would help to have consensus on which alternative we were commited to, because each one has different implications for how to edit content to the page. But I was not promoting one alternative over the other. I was on the contrary inviting general discussion. Slrubenstein | Talk 20:02, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nice

Did you see the top of my talk page? --DanielCD 15:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I'll leave it there a week or so, then I'll tuck it away in my quotes or something. --DanielCD 15:19, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Robert McHenry

Thanks. "invoking" still seems clumsy, and the section could do with better rephrasing — but the focus seems to now be correct. — Jeandré, 2005-12-15t17:21z

[edit] Shaker Heights

Thanks for letting me know that you reverted my edit to "Shaker Heights". However, I would point out that I provided a reference to the information I had added (from three separate scenes of Episode 154 of "Leave it to Beaver" which I viewed yesterday). Also, just so you know, Mayfield is a real community; if Expedia is telling the truth, it's a subdivision of Shaker Heights, and has been named Mayfield since the early 20th century (so it wasn't named in honor of the show). This is not the most important thing on earth, but I do encourage you to view the evidence if you're at all doubtful. I wouldn't be surprised if the writers claimed the community was fictional - unfortunately, TV sitcom writers aren't generally as accurate in these things as they could be. --Charlene.vickers 21:42, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Image

Could you please provide some evidence that Image:Natalee_Holloway_yearbook_photo.jpg is in the public domain? I've added the "no license notified" template to this image. —Guanaco 16:39, 23 December 2005 (UTC)