Talk:Dwarfs (Discworld)

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[edit] Minesign

I think we ought to mention "minesign" in here somewhere; I'm already adding the Summoning Dark to the list of Discworld gods. --Yar Kramer 22:16, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Glod

The sad story of Glod and his endless replication suggested that humans and dwarfs could interbreed. Which story was that in? I think it would be useful to includeSerendipodous 23:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Just in case this is still relevant, it was mentioned in the footnotes of Witches Abroad. Soul Music had a Glod. --Kizor 23:05, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tolkien?

Does Discworld ever pastiche Tolkien? There's a lot of Fritz Leiber, (Lankhmar -> Ankh-Morpork), a bit of Conan, a little Lovecraft.... But I'd struggle to name very much that's Tolkien in them. Adam Cuerden 17:01, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

There's a lot; the imagery and description of dwarfs in Discworld is straight out of Middle-Earth. Serendipodous 19:29, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, yes, but there's MUCH bigger influences. Fritz Leiber, Shakespeare, Lovecraft (Dungeon Dimensions, Auditors) Death's Godson (Think that's the name. The fairy tale Mort's based around, with significant expansion and changes, aye.) Can't call something a pastiche if it never takes plot or setting out of Tolkien once. Adam Cuerden 04:02, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

The biggest Tolkien homage, apart from female and male dwarfs being indistinguishable, is the language, which is phonetically similar, as the article says, to Khuzdul, Tolkien's dwarvish language. Many Dwarvish names in Discworld, such as Gimlet and Glod, are smilar to Tolkien's Dwarf names, such as Gimli and Gloin. Pratchett draws inspritation from many sources, but even he admits that, as he says, "Modern fantasy is just re-arranging the furniture in Tolkien's attic." Serendipodous 17:25, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but homages aren't the same as pastiches. A pastiche would require Tolkien to be dominant for long periods, with an attempt to emulate him. For instance, Going Postal is a Dickens pastiche: It deals with themes Dickens dealt with, it features characters that are noticably Dickensian, the setting and description of same is very evocative of Dickens, famous quotes from Dickens appear throughout and so on. The only major deviation from Dickens is that Dickens was horrible at writing women and Pratchett is not. ...Maybe I'm quibbling too much about one word, and should just change it? Adam Cuerden 18:13, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Changed to "which they were originally a homage to. or something like that. Ends a sentence with a preposition, but I don't really think it matters. Suppose you could change it to "to which they were originally a homage." if you're pedantic. Just aren't used the way Tolkien used them, which kind of puts them out of pastiche territory. Adam Cuerden 18:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Witches Abroad has a lengthy scene based on the Mines of Moria, followed by the first appearance of dwarf bread, and a Gollum-like creature. But I'm quite happy with "homage" rather than "pastiche". When I wrote that bit I was really just trying to avoid calling them a "parody". Daibhid C 15:51, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Devices?

Why is there such an extensive section about Devices in an article about Dwarfs? I realize that the dwarfs possess most of the known Devices, but IIRC they did not create them, and they don't seem to affect Dwarfish culture or daily life that much. I could understand giving the Devices a passing mention, but the specifics definitely don't belong here. Chrismith 18:21, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

I can't argue with the presence of this section... after all, Devices have long been part of Dwarf culture; yet, it seems that they were UNknown to the rest of Discworld until the events of Thud.

My only quibble is that I don't believe that the axle was a gift from the Low King -- Vetinari seized it by Eminent Domain, essentially. I don't see any textual evidence of a gift. So, I'm changing that line in the article... if I'm wrong, please correct me and revert. Moishe Rosenbaum 01:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC)