User talk:Duty2love

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Archive 2007

You may wish to comment here. Renee (talk) 19:11, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Proposed Deletion

You may wish to weigh in on the proposed deletion of this page. Renee (talk) 00:54, 26 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Hi Duty2love...

Thanks for your comments on my talk page......

I could return your "loving and compassionate (sarcasm)" analysis of my words, that you perform without knowing me, but just by my words, which you probably know are the product of the MIND not the SPIRIT, but I won't be that "arrogant" as to return your "insults" under the guise of "brotherhood" or "spirituality"...

We are all ONE... but some of us are "greedy, arrogant, nationalist, self-serving, murderous, thieves, etc...Others are generous, and not as "egotistical" much more of the time than the SRCM gang...For me to spread my PRAYER (or my method) thinking egotistically that MY PRAYER (or my method) will save all of mankind is arrogant and egotistical...WE in the WEST, who are not "religious", also have SPIRITUALITY as we are SPIRIT, but it is not the RELIGIONS of the FATHERS with its "male" Warring God either.....IT IS more NATURAL (as in NATURE...including the COSMOS). It is also science and logic-based, and not "faith" based. The sun shines and the rain falls and the wind blow on all the BROTHERS, including US in the WEST.

  • You say that: "I fail to see his LOVE for Babuji"?

Does Babuji's family agree with that statement. Can you love Babuji and attack his family as SRCM does? His sole purpose in LIFE is not to spread Babuji's TEACHINGS, which did not divide as Chari's teachings does, but to change it to a lowly version of SPIRITUALISM (messages from the dead), not spirituality... Chari is changing the MESSAGE to un-consciously GLORIFY Himself...He is like an addict...no matter how it leaves "anger and division" behind, he can't stop. But even in his "ego", I love him more than he loves me, my family and/or Babuji and his family. I LEAVE HIM ALONE in respect and do not go and STEAL or disrupt his material dreams and efforts as he does the other families in the world, including the dreams and goals of other religions, calling them and us, "CORRUPT" and "proponents of violence"...We can call his statements "hypocritical"...That is what SRCM is and does, since he took over from a GOOD GUY (Babuji)...(one who is "SPIRITUAL")

  • WORDS ARE CHEAP...I see the FRUIT of his LABOUR and it is DIVISIVE and MATERIALIST...not SPIRITUAL...He grows MATTER as any CAPITALIST. And the PLANET? The Carbon FOOTPRINT? NOT on his radar...The families of the VICTIMS? He does not care...He is like all other CAPITALISTS...BUILD BUILD BUILD...a REAL ESTATE SCAM that is worthy of the VATICAN...GROWTH out of control is a CANCER!!

By the way...I can see the lack of LOVE, forgiveness and compassion that you talk about in the lives of the abhyasis in my area also...dead husbands, and/or divided families since SRCM...NOT a UNITING FORCE this SRCM... but as good foot-soldiers for CHARI as with any other corrupt "RELIGION", they assasinate (poison) the characters of their FAMILY MEMBERS and seek other families and victims to divide. I would not be surprised if they don't read the "obits" and target the widows. Where before there was LOVE and FOGIVENESS...NOW there is "UN-caring and no compassion". Is that what SRCM teaches the abhyasis to do? Is that the "destruction" of LOVE that the preceptors are actively "TRANSMITTING" to the women of Sahaj Marg? Chari brought that up at one of the preceptors Seminars. Are they a "5th column", sacrificing our families to the goals of SRCM's Invasion of the WEST?

  • If you want UNIVERSAL BROTHERHOOD, help the POOR, not with PRIVATE schools and retreats for the wealthy...Bring some FOOD, HOSPITALS, MEDICINE, SHELTER, to AFRICA...Do something beside REAL ESTATE scams that will burden the future abhyasis (with the payment of the mortgage)... Do you know where ALL the CAPITALISTS of the WORLD unite...IN GREED!! They do not fix the problems of the world but just profiteer for their CLAN and their own "gang" of money and power hungry "brothers and sisters"... If you want to UNITE the WORLD in SPIRITUALITY, get away from the trappings of the corrupt religions with their focus on the grandeur of the MATERIAL...

You "religious nationalists" pretend to be a "BROTHER or a SISTER" but you are really wolves in sheep's clothing... If you want to be my BROTHER, go home and wait for me to invite you to my home...don't invade with your "serving the rich" charities as the POOR are dying in our streets.

Then when you come to my home...offer something, don't take something...do not divide one member of the family from the rest for your selfish goals, specially to favour the WEALTHY and ignore my poor BROTHERS. The money that would go to the poor will now go to build your Monuments to yourselves and for the BROTHERS AND SISTERS to gorge themselves on orgasms of food, egotism (navel gazing) and materialism as the POOR are ignored... I guess in INDIA...you are all BROTHERS and SISTERS and all LOVE one another so much that now you can teach us how to LIVE? NOT SO... You have to learn from US just as we can learn from you, We do not KILL one another for MATERIAL control of CHURCHES and ashrams... Stop teaching and start LEARNING...

  • What we want for the FUTURE of the WORLD is that ALL such religions as SRCM be exposed as yet another example of "doing everything to keep from going HOME"...When someone does not love, he avoids the occasions to love and surround himself with a "entourage" so he can only claim to LOVE from a distance...LOVE MEANS to be close...not to divide... I am not opposed to SRCM and to CHARI but to RELIGION in general, and now to Religion that calls itself SPIRITUALITY...I see another gang of corrupt individuals who can't DO, but TEACH what they CAN'T DO... RELIGIONS BUILD CHURCHES...CHARITIES help the POOR AND THE NEEDY...SPIRITUALITY deals with SPIRIT...not MATERIAL...

India has so much to offer the world...So sad that it is this "ROT" and "corruption" that you export. Wallow in your self-righteousness and "indignation" and your feigned "persecution" while you persecute, victimize and manipulate the masses for the GLORY of YOUR PATH and hence "YOURSELF"...

I will keep a watch and will speak for those you hurt, victimize and divide, even to violence and then to war!!

Become the GOOD...Stop pretending that now, you are GOOD... LEARN...stop TEACHING!!LISTEN...Stop PREACHING!!

Read my OPEN letter to CHARI in my blog and give the letter to Chari and ask him to address the issues I bring forward... And of course...Pretend that it is not TRUE if you want to!! but it is true...That is what you support!! DIVISION! NOT UNITY AND ONE-ness!!

In catholicism, they confess the sins to the priest, and then PRAY, and that confirms that the Catholics are GOOD!! NOT TRUE!! The Path to HELL is paved with GOOD INTENTIONS...EVERYone wants a "DIFFERENT world" but no one wants to change...Everyone wants the others to change and become like them...SOUND FAMILIAR?? Arrogant? Everyone wants to go to the BRIGHTER WORLD (heaven) but no one wants to die. (become truly a Spirit)

http://4d-don.blogspot.com/2008/03/last-open-letter-to-chari-for-sake-of.html

Don--don (talk) 17:43, 6 April 2008 (UTC)


Hi Duty2love

Thank you for your comments...

I respect your opinion and allow ALL to follow the path they want...That is freedom.

In my view, Spirit is "inside" and "outside" and the spiritual journey outside is mostly ritual and repetition...or in the MATERIAL...or RELIGION. The other journey or path of SPIRIT is INSIDE (no ritual or repetition there except the ones created by the SELF, but it is a COMMUNION or a CONVERSATION with the ONE/ALL...

The "OUTSIDE" is already JOURNEYED by MANY or even MOST...If I have to GO OUTSIDE to get to the path "INSIDE" I am not being more spiritual but I am being RELIGIOUS. To deal with the "OUTSIDE", or the created world, with all it's beautiful 'Ashrams", Churches, with pictures of the MASTER, even God "ITSELF" in some religions, will not assist me one iota in my INNER SPIRITUAL JOURNEY and will not show me the "INSIDE" of SPIRIT. The OUTSIDE religions want to control and imprint on the INSIDE realm so as to create MORE of ITSELF and hence to perpetuate its existence on the "INSIDE" realm. Since the "INNER" journey is ETERNAL and never ending, the corruption of REALITY it creates is the "neglect" of family and friends under the guise of reaching a GOAL...which is never reached in REALITY...REALITY means MOTION...not stasis, no GOAL, no END, no OMEGA! JUST an ILLUSION created by RELIGION and CULTS to profiteer off the TIME of the "gullible".

TIME can be translated into money given, stuff purchased, in other words, the MATERIAL. And of course TIME can be translated into traveling, so as to worship, bowing, giving praise and reverence to the self-created POWERFUL "members" of the MATERIAL PYRAMID of the MISSION. This is all "TIME" (power) that is usurped from THE FAMILY and FRIENDS and COMMUNITY, NATURE, and the PLANET, the environment, etc...

The corruption created by pyramidal RELIGIONS is REPETITION...Because something is TRUE and REAL one time, the profiteers thinks and sells the concept that it will "DUPLICATE" exactly for eternity...We all know that even though a leaf looks like another leaf, the REALITY is that every leaf is DIFFERENT...Nothing is Exactly the same. That is the ILLUSION of cyclical TIME, that repeats and seems to create a REPETITION, although all of the MOTIONS of Cyclical TIME places us (the planet) into a different area of SPACE and is hence DIFFERENT all the TIME...there is no REPETITION in REALITY but there are many CYCLES (time) that give the ILLUSION of REPETITION and Duplication... Understanding this is/was the wisdom of Lalaji and the folly of Chari and the lack of comprehension of Babuji... Lalaji did not create a system for MASS CONSUMERS or a MacDonald's of SPIRITUALITY where ONE SYSTEM fits ALL and can be sold by acolytes (preceptors) for the sake of the POWER of the MISSION managed by the Wealthy who are MATERIALISTS, spending all their TIME in the search of POWER.

In my spirituality, the JOURNEY is the THING...not the GOAL or the CONQUEST... I AM TO LOVE NOW!! To love you, I will spend time with you (this exchange), rather that "ignoring you" and going off to "navel gaze", pretending that my GOAL is more important than YOU, the LOVE of MY LIFE that is placed in my LIFE by the ONE... Not LOVE tomorrow when all those I could have loved have "passed" or gone on. Those who claim to have loved the family and friends but spent all their time chasing the MASTER (or GOD) around the world in their arranged "tours", living at their hotels (Santosh's LOTUS hotels), and in their "rented facilities", and purchased their "books, tapes, pictures" have not LOVED their family but neglected them for their "selfish", and co-dependent GOALS...that is narcisistic to say the least...That is to "Save yourself" by loving a stranger (the Master), and his acolytes (also strangers), and the hell with those the ONE has put around you to LOVE and SPEND TIME WITH...(your family and friends, community, pets, NATURE, etc...)...The manicured lawns of the Ashrams, the airports, and the "fairgrounds" are not "NATURAL"...THE ONE's creation of the ALL around you are NATURAL!

There is a saying in Christianity that is falsely or rightly attached to Jesus, the Christ(Saviour): ONE CAN'T SERVE TWO MASTERS...One will love one and neglect the other (the family)...One will serve one and detest the other for taking up too much of one's time...

I wish for you to "BE" Spritual NOW, and LOVE and SERVE (spend TIME with) those that the ONE (what Chari calls the Male God) has put around you, rather than searching for STRANGERS TO LOVE and SERVE and/or to SAVE YOU from your "terrible" fate of LOVING your family, friends, pets, community, NATURE, the PLANET, the COSMOS...the OUTSIDE WORLD!!

From some "unknown" poet..(paraphrased)

When I am saved, I will LOVE the family and the friends and spend some time with them, I will feed the hungry, and shelter the homeless, clothe the naked, the SEEKER cries... Well finally the SEEKER found what he/she was seeking for but the FAmily and Friends, society, NATURE did not wait and MOVED ON with thier lives and the SEEKER was left alone with his/her guilt, shame, and narcisism...

PS...This will be read by more than you so I will "smile" at them also...It seems to be something that some, the pseudo-spiritual, want to HIDE from view...lol  ;-))

Go in PEACE and LOVE, COMPASSION and CARING for those around you! SERVE the POOR, the NEEDY, the SICK...They need it...The wealthy don't need more MATERIAL or EGO to distract them in the OUTSIDE WORLD...The CREATED UNIVERSE.... GO INSIDE...You don't have to TRAVEL to get there...YOU ARE THERE ALREADY...

PS... We only use FIRE (red end (emotional) of the Electromagnetic Spectrum) because the Blue end (intellectual) is not accessible by the RELIGIONS who use "EMOTIONS" to ensnare the "unthinking"...I would prefer to use the BLUE end of LOGIC and intellect than the RED end of EMOTIONS... But the archangels will use all of the EM SPECTRUM to affect TRANSFORMATION... And we (Homo Sapiens) will TRANSFORM for the sake of LIFE!! or SURVIVAL!!!

4d-don--don (talk) 17:54, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] sock case

Dear Duty2Love, I saw your sock case against CFW. I have more evidence I can add and will do so later. Renee (talk) 13:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey - I didn't think about this till I saw your case - I just knew it was the same atrocious Shashwat tone the whole time and just assumed everyone knew it was Shashwat too. Marathi_Mulgaa (talk) 23:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Hi - Saw your message. I completely agree with you. I'll be more objective in the future and stick to the issues rather than the personalities. But as far as my tone is concerned, don't mind it - That's who I am, and that's how I speak... You'd see that if I ever met you. And as the bard said "To thine own self be true"... :)

Marathi_Mulgaa (talk) 08:57, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Duty2love...

Is this the "well planned" conspiracy that Renee and the other SRCM apologists are talking about when they attack ME? As Jiddu Krishnamurti said: Faith leads inevitable to violence... Once you have faith in a STRUCTURE, you will DEFEND IT! Structures are not SPIRIT but MATTER, so this BATTLE is not about SPIRIT-uality but about the structures of (new) RELIGION and CULT of a PERSON, and DEFENSE of a STRUCTURE...and the attacks on the PERSON and the IDENTITY speaks to who they are, these attackers!! Not an example to be emulated by the World at LARGE IMHO!!

In the SPIRIT, we are ONE! WE are now asked by true SPIRITUAL persons and practitioners to bring that SPIRIT-uality into our MATERIAL (physical) LIFE!!

ARE the SRCM adherents doing that?? Is this a testimony of their FAITH? Are SRCM adherents different from MUSLIMS, CHRISTIANS or any other RELIGIONS who attack what they call "the SINNER" and the INFIDEL so as to defend the MESSAGE, the "WORD of GOD" (or MASTER) and the STRUCTURE and the MASTER?

You are compromising your own SPIRITUALITY by these attacks on the PERSON rather than editing and addressing the MESSAGE! You will then have to "apologize" for your defense of other "abuses" by the GROUP, of our RIGHTS to QUESTION, SPEAK and THINK independently...To EXPOSE!

Let us hope that we (you) don't un-intentionally help create another THEOCRACY to defend our INTELLECTUAL FREEDOMS!!

4d-don--don (talk) 17:40, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wow!

I am very impressed with your thorough response to Cult free world's RFC. I might quibble with a few of your points but overall it is really excellent. I'm going to give the page a break for maybe a week or so and see what everyone else says. I was sorry to see Cult dismiss your hard work and hope he decides to take it seriously. You are a very kind and patient person! Renee (talk) 13:49, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


Wow Duty.... ummmm. You did your homework.
After looking at this article and your precise analysis of it, no one with an ounce of wikiexperience or integrity would suggest it is worthy of publishing. My hunch is most of his work will be deleted. Sethie (talk) 15:02, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Completely agree with Renee and Sethie - A lot of work went into your response. It is balanced and fair. The rude response was uncalled for. Marathi_Mulgaa (talk) 20:10, 13 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] History section

Your post is too long, and cannot be replied in one go, you appear to be knowledgeable person about the subject, and hence your input is important, even though you have initiated few personal attack against me, but since i understand the reason behind it, hence i do not take these things personally, same i request to you, we are on wikipedia to create article and enlighten masses about the subject of our expertise, this is what wikipedia has been conceptualized for, not to delete information but to give information. I welcome you to read the history section (as of now) and discuss that, not me, or any other person outside wikipedia, also note, this section is copied as it is from french wikipedia and is simply translated and I have only added references to what was stated in french wikipedia, only thing that i have added is the violent activity which were reported in Indian newspapers (secondary sources), and i am sure you also must have read those newspaper clippings available on net. We will move to other sections one by one.--talk-to-me! (talk) 07:38, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Replied here

[edit] Thanks

Dear Duty, thanks for your nice note on my page. Like Sethie, I'm not sure if it's worth responding as it's clear he just wants to write a POV essay and is willing to mis-label evidence to fit his aim (how did a tax notification get turned into tax evasion?). You have been a paragon of patience and I applaud you for that. I'll keep an eye on the page and if so moved I'll add something. Thanks!Renee (talk) 13:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] moving sections

Duty2Love: When you are moving sections around in Sahaj Marg talk page, please also make sure you take the relevant comments made by others along with the re-shuffling. It gets tough to keep track as there are too many discussions involved. I hope something useful will turn out of all these discussions. Embhee (talk) 00:42, 16 May 2008 (UTC)