Talk:Dutch-Portuguese War

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[edit] Thanks

Thanks CmdrObot, any corrections are appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MiguelNS (talk • contribs)

[edit] Intro

The article needs an introduction... --HJV 02:28, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Propaganda

This is a propaganda tract, not a historical article. Beyond indonesia, dutch attempts to take over portuguese posessions were a failure.--Bistor92 02:39, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Dear Bistor92, I believe the sentence you mention is the following: "In all, and also because the Dutch were kept busy with their expansion in Indonesia, the conquests made at the expense of the Portuguese were modest: some Indonesian possessions and a few cities and fortresses in the Arabian sea." This is not propaganda! This only intends to explain that as strong as the Dutch were, they did not quickly or easily overcome the Portuguese India State forces! In fact, with the exception of Malaca, the main Portuguese cities such as Ormuz, Goa, Bombay and Macau remained in Portuguese possession... Further ahead I explain how successful the Dutch campaign was nonetheless: "The most important blow to the Portuguese east empire and the culmination of the war would be the conquest of Malacca in 1641 (...)" MiguelNS
I agree with you. But the article seems pro-dutch to me.--Bistor92 05:42, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, if it seems pro-Dutch then I can only say thank you for acknowledging my objectivity. I should add that it is intended to be impartial. But of course any further contributions will be appreciated. MiguelNS

[edit] Opening paragraph

"an armed conflict involving Dutch forces, in the form of the Dutch East India Company and the Dutch West India Company, against the Portuguese Empire. Beginning in 1588, the conflict primarily involved the Dutch companies invading Portuguese colonies in the Americas, Africa, India and the Far East." The Dutch companies were founded in 1602 and 1621, so for those first fourteen years, who was fighting on behalf of the United Provinces? This introduction needs to be reworded. JesseRafe 17:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I understand what you mean Jesse. But when I say that the Dutch companies waged war on the Portuguese possessions since 1588, what I mean is that since the Spanish Armada, the Dutch fleet (which was largely private even if not initially in the form of the VOC and WIC) had been fighting the Portuguese. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MiguelNS (talk • contribs)

[edit] factual error?

"The Dutch were hopeful of some degree of success, since in 1588 the English, with Dutch aid, had been able to defeat the Spanish Armada and with it the backbone of the Iberian fleet — the oceangoing galleons and naus used in support of trade in West Indies silver and Indian spices.1"

To my knowledge the Spanish Armada mainly consisted of its mediterran units and only very few oceangoing vcessels. No parts of the High Seas Fleet were recalled for the invasion so that at the battle only 12 Spanish galeons were present in battle. So as the mainstay of the Spanish fleets were always busy on the tradelanes and never invested in this military endevour the backbone of their tradefleets actual were not seriously affected. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mangalore (talk • contribs)

Well Mangalore, in fact the Spanish navy at the time had plenty of ocean going galleons (especially after the anexation of Portugal).It is true that a great portion of the fleet was made up of mediterranean galleys, but remember Castile, Navarra and Portugal had many ocean-going vessels.There were certainly more than 12 galleons present in 1588! In the occupation of Azores alone, around 10 were used !!!...The problems of the "felicissima" derived rather from an excess of tonage, poor planing (wrong munitions for wide variety of cannons) and bad leadership.MiguelNS

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Cochinel.gif

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:46, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Broken backbone?

Who says the defeat of the Spanish Armada broke the naval backbone of the Iberian powers? Not even the article cited makes such a claim. How many of the Armada's ships were Portuguese - and more importantly how many were lost? Was Portugal so deficient in resources that it couldn't make those losses up in the period 1589-1602, the period before this war really began. By the way, what year did the Dutch manage to monopolise trade with Japan? It would be also interesting to have a few hints as how and why they were able to exclude the Portuguese.

Dear Anonymous

I say the defeat of the Spanish Armada broke the backbone of the Iberian nations, because it did! I won't go to too much length here, because the article does not concern one battle but an entire war spawning for decades. Just look at it this way, never again was the Iberian Monarchy able to muster a similar fighting force, and many of the crucial ocean going galleons were lost.

About a forth or fifth of the armada's ships were Portuguese, but most importantly almost half of the galleons were Portuguese.

That's a good question, I don't know whether Portugal tried to make up for its losses..

The best date I've got for you is 1639. Spain and Portugal were expelled, only the Dutch remained.

The how and why are well known, but not relevant for this article...

MiguelNS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.214.147.192 (talk) 01:50, 23 March 2008 (UTC)