Talk:Dushinsky (Hasidic dynasty)

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[edit] Hasidim?

Dushinky's was originally a non-chasidic grouping of Hungarian Perushim. When did they become chasidim? --Redaktor 15:38, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Good question. Nobody knows. Difficult to say exactly. The Maharitz was a rov with a kehilla. Under his son Reb Yisroel Moshe zy'a it turned into a chassidishe group. Now, under Reb Yosef Tzvi the 2nd, it's a plain chassidishe group like all others. With the notable exemption (which it shares with Toldos Aharon / Shomer Emunim), that there is no chassidishe mesorah going back to the Baal Shem Tov (or, anywhere beyond the first Rebbe). IIRC, you are in London - there is a Dushinsky beis medrash there. They just built a new one. Maybe someone there can answer detailed questions better than I can. --Rabbeinu 17:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I haven't heard of a Dushinsky shtibl in London. What is it called?--Redaktor 17:40, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

There is one. They built a new one - I know they were building it half a year ago. I assume it should be finished now. Ask around in Satmar or so, they should know. But the name, I don't know. --Rabbeinu 18:56, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

It's not unusual for non-hasidic groups to become hasidic when they appoint a new rav who is. That's how satmar became hasidic too. Basejumper 20:15, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Satmar is part of the Hasidic dynasties of Ujhel-Sighet which go back two hundred years! --Redaktor 14:40, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] They don't belong in Category anti Zionism

Although they do belong in the Eida HaChreidis which is rightfully in this category, they are known to be a very passive group in this overall organisation no wars or statements are attributed to them that makes them an active member in the anti Zionism definition.--יודל 14:28, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Hahahaha. No, just the the Maharitz and the Maharim were VERY big leaders in the Edah. Man, you make me laugh. Please check the introduction to Yalkut Amarim Vayoel Moshe where you will find a haskomoh written by the Maharim shortly before his petiroh, 5 years ago. --Eidah 14:34, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Please not all statements made by their leader over 50 years ago is the definition of the article today. and yes many bigger lefties were involved with the Eidah, look up your facts HaRav Dushinsky was a good friend with HaRav Kook. But this isn't the issue a category usually gives a broader definition of the subject at hand and a side belief of somebody cannot be done into a category which he is very vaguely and loosely attributed to it. r they Zionists? sure not! are they satmars? Hell not!--יודל 15:11, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
As I said, Please check the introduction to Yalkut Amarim Vayoel Moshe where you will find a haskomoh written by the Maharim shortly before his petiroh, 5 years ago. --Eidah 15:29, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Oh, and Kook was such a big heretic that just hearing the guy's name makes me want to throw up. --Eidah 15:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Daniel, how can you say something like this and expect to be treated as a valuable Wiki editor? You have got to get out more and see the other 90% of Orthodox Jews out there. Yossiea (talk) 02:37, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Eidah - you shock me. I also initially had "doubts" over Rabbi Kook zt"l, but after talking with staunch anti-Zionist Reb Osher Baddiel of Stamford Hill, he assured me that he was an odom gadol, but was "blinded". A poster of him (with the bit stating it was issued by the Zionist Federation snipped off intentionally!) graced his classroom. Please retract your disrespectful comment immediately! Chesdovi 11:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
I except that the haskamah contains some vitriol and vicious statements against Zionism after all all main stream judaism can find huge sentiments from its torah leaders in the past against this ideology but to say that this opposition is still alive and active is false. they are not involved in any active opposition to this ideology today. giving an haskamah on a sefer is just saying that the Torah view is against Zionism, that does not make the article Torah or halacha in anti Zionism category, unless u put all of main stream judaism in this category, which is very absurd--יודל 15:40, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I don't think there's much question about the fact that Dushinsky is anti-Zionist. --Meshulam 23:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
I think that it is enough for a group to be categorized Anti-Zionist if their ideology is considered Anti-Zionist, whether or not they are actively involved in disseminating their views is irrelevant. Dushinsky I believe is an Anti-Zionist group. Rabbi Yosef Tzvi Dushinsky was famous for asking the UN to make Jerusalem an international city to stop it falling into the hands of the Zionist Jews. Chesdovi 11:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
We are not debating this historic well documented point, but keep in mind that the artice is discussing not history alone but mainly a group of people today that live within the boundaries of the Eidah HaChareidis and are not at all considered to be one of its active anti Zionists like satmar or toldos ahron, they are a very passive member of this group. the category specifically points out to include only active antis, and dushinsky is not one of them today. if you are going to include all the groups which have sentiments against Zionism in their ideology, u can virtually include every chassidus except chabad or erloy and boston that's it. Most main stream Hareidi rabbis were and are still opposed to Zionism as a non Torah way of life and ideology, this doesn't make all those hareidi rabbis as anti Zionists, if u only heard this anecdote about rav dushinsky its because he lived in Jerusalem at that time while most of the others were sti in europe and their voices vere not relevant for the politics of the pace, just ask any chabad guy how their rabbis of the time spewed opposition to Zionism or any other group, but he wasn't more opposed to Zionism then other hareidi rabbis.--יודל 11:48, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
I agree with User:Yidisheryid's latest summary comment, it is enough that it is already categorised under Category:Edah HaChareidis which is itself in the Category:Orthodox Jewish Anti-Zionism. Having both categories would be slightly over-categorising the page. And having just looked at Category:Orthodox Jewish Anti-Zionism, it seems under-populated and therefore unnecessary. It should be deleted if no more pages can be added. Chesdovi 12:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Absolutely not. There are anti-Zionists who are not under the Eidah. As for being underpopulated, the reason it is underpopulated is that some user keeps on making excuses for remiving groups from this category. I will not revert yet, because I'm not interested in getting into some silly edit-war, but I do not understand the opposition to this. YiddisherYid has now advanced two or more sets of reasoning for accomplishing this goal. And as each one gets refuted, he reverts to another. That leads me to believe that there's some ulterior motive afoot.--Meshulam 14:00, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
The only Anti Zionists who are not part of the Eida is Netureh Karteh which is a splinter group who originally were part only to divide themselves being more extreme. i wi leave for u to explain motives here, what i am concerned about here is the truth of the fact that belongs here, they aren't more anti zionist then all hasidic groups, and yes they dont take money from the goverment only in jerusalem in bnei brak they do take money, and in al their housholds hebrew is spoken, u claim to the conterey that they are active anti Zionists, i beg to difer, please be respectfu of me and do not qwestion my motives, asume good faith and consider that unsourced facts that can be challenged dont belong here. this category does not belong here because its not true--יודל 22:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

We do NOT take ANY money from the Zionists and ALL Dushinsky households speak Yiddish. My rov, who is the dayan of Dushinsky and the highest person in Dushinsky right after the Rebbe, calls Ivrit 'Tzioinish' and does not wish to hear that language from anyone who speaks Yiddish. Please quite your slander. --Eidah 20:01, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I dont know whom u mean as your rav it may be rav ulman or perhaps rav upman but in bnei brak thay do take money and most houshods do indeed speak hebrew as their anguge. I agree with u that in Jerusalem and in biet shemesh they speak yiddish, but dushinsky is not like satmar in their anti Zionism ideal they are more like all main stream chareidy groups in regarding Zionism. If you disagree please bring a source and i will be silenced i beg u not to add POV in articles.--יודל 03:24, 2 September 2007 (UTC)