Talk:Durkon Thundershield

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Contents 1 Durkon's Sealed Message 2 Durkon's attraction to human women 3 Durkon's bansihment 4 Durkon's level 5 Durkon's Alignment

[edit] Durkon's Sealed Message

The article itself says that there's a low chance that Miko will relay the message verbally. However, there are two things that I'd like to bring up about that.

1. Miko actually TRUSTS Durkon, as opposed to the other members. So, she might relay it, if not for point 2.

2. Miko's job was to deliver a SEALED scroll to Lord Shojo, so she didn't know the contents of it. Therefore, it would be impossible for her to relay the message.

Did I forget something here, or should the article be changed?

Ruduen 22:02, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Durkon's attraction to human women

Someone claimed that his encounter with Julia demonstrated that he is not affected by non-dwarven beauty. This seems to be jumping to conclusions based on one example. As a counter exampel I offer #35 [1] there he seems as delighted by Haley's beauty and sex appeal as the rest of the males in the party. He also encourages her to keep searching (so they can keep looking at her). I have changed the text to stating that he is not easily affected by human beauty.

Sensemaker

[edit] Durkon's bansihment

Tailkinker removed my comment on Durkon's false mission being unfair. My comment that the dutiful dwart would surely have accepted life-long exile to save his homeland was "too speculative". I disagree. If Durkon is dutiful enough to accept indefinite (but at least several-year-long) banishment for the sake of a mission that seems completely pointless, even counter-productive, it is a safe bet that he would accept life-long banishment to save his homeland. Is there anyone who seriously doubts this? If there is, I ask you to remember that Durkon ended up accepting life-long banishment for the sake of this bogus mission after talking to the oracle. If he can accept life-long banishment for such a silly reason he can certainly accept it to save his homeland.

As to being unfair, I believe that if you have someone making a great sacrifice (Durkon is really miserable in his exile but is usually to stoic to show it) the least you can give them is the truth and the satisfaction that their sacrifice serves a higher purpose.

Sensemaker 12:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Concerning Tailkinker latest comment about Durkon being reluctant to leave home and thus it is speculative to say he would have left to save his homeland if he was told the truth. This is a straw man argument. I never claimed Durkon *wanted* to leave his Dwarven homelands. Of course he was reluctant. My point is that his sense of duty would have caused him to leave anyway out of his strong sense of duty if he knew his homelands survival depended on it. The definition of being dutiful is doing what you don't want to do (i.e. what you are reluctant to do) out of a sense of duty. This is precisely what Drukon did. He did not even comtemplate not obeying a non-sensical order even though it was painful to him. Of course he would take the same pain for the much, much better cause of saving his homeland.

Sensemaker

I'm not saying that you're completely wrong, but what you said, that Durkon would have simply accepted lifelong exile from his homeland is speculative. Yes, he's a dutiful individual, I'm not denying that, but the simple fact is that we do not know how he would have reacted had he been told the truth. He may well have obeyed, but even the most dutiful individual has a point where they cannot obey any further, and we do not know where that point is with Durkon. As a result, to state that Durkon would simply have agreed had he been told the truth is speculation. If you were to reword your statement to make it clear that this is somewhat speculative (for example, the word 'doubtlessly' cannot be justified), then I will gladly leave it in place. --Tailkinker 12:07, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Let's assume you love your contry. Would you leave your country and not return to save it? Unless you are a complete egoist; of course you would. As a matter of fact, even if you were a complete egoist -but not a complete idiot, you would stay away anyway because you would realize that it would not be a good idea to be in your homeland when disaster occurred to your homeland. Especially since people who were hit by the disaster would know it was your fault. So to return to your homeland and cause disaster to it would require a person who is both a complete egoist (selfish enough not to care what happens to your contrymen) and a complete idiot (too dumb to realize that he would put himself in grave danger). Now Durkon Thundershield has consistently acted dutyfully, responsibly and fairly wisely. Is there a chance that he would suddenly decide to act like a complete egoist and a complete idiot? Statistically, perhaps yes, but we are talking about astronomical odds. That Thurgood would not go back to his homeland and deliberately cause its destruction is beyond any reasonable doubt. That is what I mean when I say "doubtlessly". 84.55.100.83 18:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

However to try to achieve a compromise, I have changed the choice of words. I no longer say it is unfair and just say it is "unnecessary" since it is "reasonable to assume" that the very dutiful Drukon would not accept exile to save his homeland. Is there anyone who seriously disagrees with that? -Sensemaker

Fine by me, but, the more I think about it, this bit's in the wrong place. Character history's really not the place for this sort of thing to discuss what might have happened - given that this centres around the dutiful nature of his personality, it seems that it probably ought to be in that section rather than where it currently sits. --Tailkinker 09:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps, but it also makes sense to have it directly after the telling about his banishment. -Sensemaker

On the other hand, Character History is for things that have happened, not for things that might have happened if something different had been done. A discussion about what decisions his dutiful nature might have led him to make had things gone differently belongs in a section about that nature. --Tailkinker 09:16, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Durkon's level

He isn't known to be able to cast Weather Control. The one time he did so in the comic, he read it from a scroll, which according to D&D rules lets him cast it as long as it's on the list of spells his class will EVENTUTALLY be able to memorize, even if he isn't high enough level yet.

Of course, this doesn't conclusively mean that he isn't level 13 - it could be that he is in theory able to cast the spell on his own but hadn't prepared it that day. It isn't known whether he scribed the scroll himself or bought it.

Still, the evidence as presented is insufficient. -- Milo —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.171.2.42 (talk) 23:44, 5 February 2007 (UTC).

Just one screw-up: he can cast Raise Dead three times in a day, according to Belkar. Henceforth, it's likely he's at least level 13- probably 14, considering how tough he and the rest of the OotS are. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 147.133.30.234 (talk) 04:30, 8 February 2007 (UTC).

Hmm... a good point. To be able to cast it three times a day at level 11 he'd need to have 28 wisdom, which is implausible. At level 13 he'd only need 20 wisdom, which is quite feasible at that level. -- Milo —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.171.2.42 (talk) 22:34, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Durkon's Alignment

On the Origin of PCs states that Durkon is lawful, not only lawful, but extremely lawful. Since the comics themselves state that Durkon is lawful, it's inaccurate to state that Durkon is neutral or chaotic based on his God's alignment. Canonical references from the comics would certainly trump speculation based on D&D game rules, and I'm editing the article to reflect this. -Atamasama 18:55, 7 June 2007 (UTC)