Talk:Duke of Normandy

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This was originally the talk page of List of Dukes of Normandy, but since that page is a redirect now, it has been moved to the talk page of Duke of Normandy

Contents

[edit] Merged with the British crown?

Isn't the title merged with the British crown? [1] This information could be incorporated into the article: [2]. I believe all this would be better placed at Duke of Normandy --Jiang 01:11 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

(1) No, any claims to be "Duke of Normandy" were given up by the Treaty of Paris in 1295 1259. (2) If a title merges with the Crown, it ceases to exist until it is regranted. And, no, before you ask, Queen Elizabeth is not the Duke of Normandy, no matter how she is toasted in the Channel Islands. -- Someone else
Why then does the official royal website continually state that she is Duke of Normandy? Here is the specific question answered in the royal magazine: [3] --Jiang 02:28 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Because they're wrong<G>. It's not the only mistake on the official royal website, either! -- Someone else 02:43 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

The Treaty was in 1259, not 1295, but otherwise, Someone else is correct, I believe. Perhaps that should be listed in the article, and John and Henry III listed as titular dukes up to 1259? john 04:02 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I think that's probably a good idea. Anything to prevent bad corrections<G>. (I'm (non-tacitly) changing the date above, acknowledging the error yet "subtly" preventing its repetition...) -- Someone else 04:23 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Moving

I'm moving this to Duke of Normandy. --Jiang

... where, indeed, I have now moved it back to, and made List of Dukes of Normandy and Dukes of Normandy redirects. Given that this is the only talk page of the three, I will move this, too.
James F. (talk) 18:49, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Duke of Normandy and Duchy of Normandy

I've tried to sort out the material on the two pages to keep the list of Dukes (and info about the claims to the title) separate from Duchy of Normandy, which I think is a better place for the history and culture of the Duchy. Hope this is useful. Man vyi 13:03, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Correction

The Treaty of Paris of 1259 had nothing to do with the title "Duke of Normandy." The treaty recognised that mainland Normandy and certain other territories were no longer the property of the Henry III in his capacity as Duke of Normandy but now belonged to the King of France, while insular Normandy (today, the bailiwicks of Jersey and Guernsey) remained under the Duke of Normandy - who, from 1066 to 1707 (except for 1649-1660) was also King or Queen Regnant of England, then subsequently of Great Britain (1707-1801) and United Kingdom (since 1801). The Treaty also provided that Henry III could keep the Acquitaine and some other French territory, but only as vassal to the King of France.

The title "Duke of Normandy" has never been abandoned by any monarch. Like "Duke of Lancaster," it is personal to the sovereign and may not be borne by anyone else. The two titles together are so strongly tied to the historic right of the bearer to the English/British crown, that the sex is never changed for a queen regnant. Elizabeth II, like Victoria, Anne, Mary II, Elizabeth I, Mary I, and (for those who include her) Jane before her, is a female Duke of Normandy and Duke of Lancaster. This is because the British Constitution, while recognising Queens Regnant, has only recognised "duchess" as indicating the wife of a duke. So, if she were the Duchess of Normandy or Lancaster, that would mean Philip was the Duke -- which would suggest he had a bizarrely abstract right to be king, by virtue of being the Duke of Normandy and the Duke of Lancaster - because those titles are personal to the sovereign. So, to avoid any question among the really die-hard traditionalists (e.g., people like the ones who signed the Scottish "National Covenant" in their own blood), the Queen is "Duke" of Normandy and Lancaster, instead of "Duchess."

Beyond its historic ceremonial value, of course, "Duke of Normandy" is still an active title -- because, although mainland Normandy was lost to France in 1259, the British monarch is still the personal sovereign of INSULAR (island) Normandy, namely Jersey and Guernsey. Duke of Lancaster is also still an active title, because it's still an active dukedom (or duchy). As Duke of Lancaster, the Queen owns land in Lacashire and London (the latter including the land on which the Savoy Hotel sits), and uses the income from the Dukedom of Lancaster to buy her clothes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.200.116.6 (talk • contribs) 14:01, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Britain has had several Duchesses in their own right, starting from Margaret, Duchess of Norfolk. Nowhere there has been any hesitation them to be Duchess, so Duke as masculine form applied specifically to those females has not been in done in those cases. Marrtel 09:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rolled back some changes

Please see [4] ... if article regulars agree that the removed material was POV please feel free to revert my reversion. ++Lar: t/c 01:50, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Executed 100 Christians after his death

CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN HOW ROLLO "EXECUTED 100 CHRISTIANS UPON HIS DEATH"? HOW DOES SOMEONE EXECUTE ANYTHING AFTER HE DIES? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.205.40.3 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] newbie question

Why is the current holder of this title, Queen Elizabeth II, styled as the Duke of Normandy instead of the Duchess of Normandy? Ronnotel (talk) 15:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

never mind - I read the paragraph above. Ronnotel (talk) 15:31, 22 April 2008 (UTC)