Talk:Duke Ellington

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Contents

[edit] Why no talk?

Why no talk?

I dunno. Mebbe bcz no one has wondered before:
Am i mistaken in recalling Will Marion Cook as a mentor of Duke Ellington? No mention i can find in either article. --Jerzy (t) 12:50, 2005 Apr 16 (UTC)

This article needs some grammar work. Commas and pauses in spoken English do not correspond, and many of the sentences are run on. Perhaps some kind soul will add their efforts in cleaning this article down.

Ellington knew Cook and took his advice but mentor is too strong a word. 198.30.138.91 (talk) 02:58, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Ofindsen

[edit] Roots

I've removed most of this: James Ellington, Duke's grandfather, was sent from the low country of South Carolina to Lincoln County ,North Carolina in 1863. He was a slave and worked at the Stonewall Furnace. After the Civil War , James returned to SC and moved his family to Lincoln County. He and his wife, Emma were farmers.John Ellington, Dukes uncle was a school teacher. He married Hannah McDaniel . Daniel Rudisell married James Ellington's oldest daughter. During the economic hard times of the 1880's , it wad Daniel Rudisill who moved the family to Washington, DC.

While it's relevant, it's also confused. It's not clear what the relevance of John Ellington is, or why Daniel Rudisill/Rudisell would have moved his father-in-law to Washington. It would be good to have some information about Ellington's direct ancestry, but properly referenced and consistent information.

Wikipedia style for sub-headings is not to capitalise any word other than the first one, by the way. --  ajn (talk) 09:15, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

It is a sad day in America when our greatest composer is not fully recognized and given crap articles like this on Wikipedia. TheKid 04:35, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Not an expert really, but tried to expaand the article and suggested headings for future additions. Philip Cross 23:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

he was a great composer

IchBin 05:08, 4 March 2006 (UTC) just a few spelling corrections

I returned to "realise", as "realize" is such a horrible barbarism (a pointless mixture of Latin and Greek roots); the "-ise" spelling is used in the U.S. as well as the U.K., Australia, Canada, et al. (e.g., [1]), though some sources claim incorrectly that U.S. usage is only the "-ize" form. (Some people try to make the two spellings do different jobs, with "realise" used in the way it is in this article, while "realize" is used in sentences like "She realized her assets".) --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:57, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] copyedit tag

yeah i took off the copyedit tag because i couldnt find any illwording, but if there happens to be some, please inform me. cheers, --zachjones4 19:37, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] no swing?

the article doesn't even mention swing! what's up with that?!!!

[edit] Primary sources and racial politics

So I have a two part question here. I have quite a bit of information on Ellington from a Primary Source. My mother, Jane Coyne toured with Duke during the end of his life, and later Mercer. I have quite a few candid pictures, as well as stories about his life, but have no way to cite. I don't consider this Original Research really, but I don't know where to place it. Suggestions?

In particular, one story related to me by my mother was regarding Ellington's Racial politics. While he had a lifetime of experience with discrimination and racial politics in the states, and used his heritage as a major source of inspiration, and as a method of celebrating black culture, he did not want to be known as a "colored/black musician". The specific anecdote was about a young black reporter, working for a black publication (like jet or ebony, but I don't know specifically which publication, or if it is still around) who wanted to interview him as "the worlds best black composer". Ellington refused, saying he had worked his whole life to be judged by his talent and music, and not the color of his skin. He would be happy to give an interview to the reporter, but only for a mainstream publication, and only as a composer, not as a black composer.

Any way to include that? I think it gives some good insight into Ellington's personality, and viewpoint on race, but it is not verifiable.

Gaijin42 16:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm afraid that there's no way to include any of it here, because of our policies on original research and citation. It sounds as though you have enough material for an article for one of the jazz magazines (which might also make you some money), if not something more substantial. Of course, once it was published, it could then be added here... --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 09:09, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sample?

Could we get a sample of his music up somehow? Zerath13 All his music is under copyright 198.30.138.91 (talk) 02:57, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Ofindsen

[edit] Birthdays

Has anyone else noticed that the abstract has April 29, 1899, while the Early Life section has the day as April 15, 1879. That's wrong I believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eplack (talk • contribs)

Actually, the 1879 date is his father's birth. I'm not sure why someone thought a biography of his parents belonged in the Early Life section. I suppose that -20 is a tender age, but that's a little excessive. JordeeBec 16:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
P.S. Sign your posts on talk pages. JordeeBec

[edit] Added 'Cat' Anderson

I added 'Cat' Anderson as one of the other members of "biggest names in jazz". His ability to hit a triple C on the trumpet puts him in with the greats of jazz. lilbrocool

[edit] latecomer

Am surprised to see so little on such a great inspiration to 20th Century music and musicians. The article seems to have been tidied up since some of the comments I've read here were made, and IMHO reads nicely, but I had expected some more info about his compositions and band line-ups. 83.180.179.143 22:26, 2 December 2006 (UTC) ps. I think the anecdote of his turning down an interview for a black magazine - which I had in fact heard before - fits in perfectly on this talk page for those of us who are interested in knowing more abt the subject at hand. Other articles on pop stars have far more trivial details (for want of a better expression) and even have a trivia sub-section, so please add more!

Ellington expressed his views on race in many interviews ,but seldom in print. If I can find a recorded interview that we can credit, I'll add the information. Owen (talk)Ofindsen

[edit] Added Cootie Williams

And the masterpiece Duke composed with him in mind "Concerto for Cootie". Words were added later and the song became "Do nothing till you hear from me" and was recorded by Billie Holiday among others. SmokeyTheFatCat 11:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rewording of introduction is needed

I've decided to append an NPOV note (and I expect to be flamed for that) because I consider the tone of the article in the introduction to be overly praising. Especially the sentence: "Musically, he wore many hats, and he could never settle on just one." made me feel I was reading an Ellington album's booklet, not an encyclopedia article. Please reword this section. Tero 00:17, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] National Treasure

For those who didn't know, Ellington's music has all officially become a national treasure (as declared by the U. S. treasury in October of 2006. I think this should be added. Can you confirm this, with citation? Owen (talk) 03:23, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Ofindsen

[edit] "Reads like advert" ?

What does this message above the article mean please? I can see nothing wrong with this article. SmokeyTheFatCat 09:59, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] (presumably) vandalism

There is a good deal of (presumably) vandalism in this. I dont have time nor do I know how to clean it up, just letting people know. For example a bizarre comment on pants in the beginning, and citing Duke as having associated with many of the "worst" names in Jazz. Subtle vandalism. Just an FYI. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.233.57.18 (talk • contribs) 23:59, 17 January 2007.

If there isn't a clear source for that particular statement than it should be removed. Robotman1974 12:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What more

We need to have more information on Duke we need to know about his Volunteer and Work experiences we need to know more about him. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.11.120.198 (talk) 13:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

Duke Ellington was a professional -- he did not do "Volunteer" work. And his "Work experience" is his life.Owen (talk) 01:38, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Ofindsen

[edit] Ellingtonians

I've tried to improve the passage in "Early career", though it is not satisfactory. It needs to be included early in the article, but as it stands it makes the article drag, and slows the narrative. Should we discuss the individual characteristics of players in the main body, or in a separate section, as is a common WP practice? The majority of readers may have only a vague idea of what made Ellington special, so a new section is not really a solution either perhaps. Philip Cross 17:58, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Criticism

There is very little here on critical and scholarly reception of his work, and some of what little there is lacks citation. For what it's worth, Gary Giddins, "How Come Jazz Isn't Dead", p. 39–55 in Eric Weisbard, ed., This is Pop, Harvard University Press, 2004. ISBN 0-674-01321-2 (cloth), ISBN 0-674-01344-1 (paper) cites an interesting negative remark by Rudi Blesh, a minority view but one that should probably be represented; the relevant passage is on p. 42 of the cited work, and an endnote cites "Rudi Blesh, Shining Trumpets: A History of Jazz (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1958 [1946])". Giddins cites Blesh as writing that "Printed scores are not part of jazz" (quotation from Blesh) and holding the view that "Ellington's 'tea dansant music' had no jazz content whatsoever" (quotation from Giddins on Blesh's view; the phrase "tea dansant music" is Blesh's). - Jmabel | Talk 18:37, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

You make reasonable points Jmabel, although the Blesh quote also appears in the article on Moldy figs which you have begun. It is not a hard rule, but Wikipedians are advised to avoid repetition across articles on the policy pages. Philip Cross 18:59, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Rudi Blesh believed that the only jazz was totally improvised Dixieland jazz, which he did not know was written down. If you agree with him, 99% of all musicians that other more recent authorities note, are not jazz either. And Ellington never called it jazz, by the way -- he called it "American music." Owen (talk) 01:36, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Ofindsen

[edit] Website expired?

http://www.dukeellington.com/ seemingly has expired (or been hacked?) 80.109.76.27 11:13, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations & References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:47, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Soda Fountain Rag

I'm desperately trying to find the full version of this song. Any help? I'm not looking for the short version on Amazon. I'll pay whatever. 24.98.199.162 (talk) 07:21, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Brooks Kerr recorded Soda Fountain Rag in 1975, accompanied by Sonny Greer and produced by Stanley Dance, with notes by Dan Morgenstern. It may be the most authentic version you can find. I have the LP and have converted it to MP3. Owen (talk) 15:59, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Please please, I'll take it. Write me on my user page. BowChickaNeowNeow (talk) 01:31, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Why is this picture of Duke not in the article? http://www.8notes.com/wiki/images/260px-Duke_Ellington_hat.jpg I think it is his most famous and recognizable photo. --Jim Raynor (talk) 00:28, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

That is because content that violates copyright can not be used. --Owen (talk) 02:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Many changes by CaptainSam

I have reverted changes made by CaptainSam because they deleted some of the previously vetted and mature article material and because they arrived with no references. This new take on the band needs to be reinforced by published opinion. Please cite the source. Binksternet (talk) 02:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism twice in the last two days

Should article be locked or something?LinoPop (talk) 03:05, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

This article is some kind of crazy vandal magnet. Must be required reading for certain school systems. I got it protected for 24 hours last November but what it needs is permanent protection against new editors and anonymous IP addresses.
You can request another protection period here at WP:RFP. The more requests a page gets, the more likely it will eventually get longterm protection. Binksternet (talk) 04:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Protecting against "new editors" would not be courteous or wise. As it stands, the article, is wordy, rambling and not entirely accurate. Owen198.30.138.10 (talk) 00:03, 30 April 2008 (UTC)