Talk:Dubstep

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Dubstep article.
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Good article Dubstep has been listed as one of the Arts good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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Kaini (talk · contribs), P4k (talk · contribs)
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[edit] i would

Highly appreciate it, if my submission were allowed to remain up. Its in now way spam, and it was written out of the knowledge I've achieved due to being a dubstep fan living in south florida. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Smittysaint (talk • contribs) 22:44, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Please see wikipedia's policy on original research - all contributions must be verifiable and sourced, and your paragraphs were, like you just said, original research. If you can find sources to suggest the dubstep scene in south florida is in any way significant and verify what you've written, then add it back. Also, bear in mind Wikipedia is supposed to have global scope, so adding extensive information on regional scenes not significant to the development of the genre would ultimately overcrowd the article. - Zeibura (Talk) 00:13, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

well, they are booking awesome djs and as a writer who sees it with their own eyes, i feel that it definitely deserves a spot up there.

Smittysaint (Talk) —Preceding comment was added at 03:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

  • Well, I'm sure they're good DJs and all, but this sort of insider/unpublished information isn't verifiable and falls under the category of original research as Zeibura says above. As an encyclopedia, Wikipedia relies on secondary sources for information. Wickethewok 14:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] britney spears and subbass

there is, believe it or not, a track entitled 'freakshow' on britney's latest album which has a proper 'wobbler' subbassline. i was taken aback by it - you can find it on youtube pretty easily. i wonder if that's worth a mention or verifiable in some form other than shocked forum posts. the vocal disc of pinch's album is extremely commercial as well. this inevitable (just like d'n'b :() assimilation into the mainstream might be worth sticking in at the end in some form or other. not dissing that pinch album btw - i love it. --Kaini (talk) 00:48, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Wow this is ridiculous. It probably is worth mentioning, and I think it's verifiable, or at least it's verifiable that some critics have talked about the song in those terms. Here are some sources:

P4k (talk) 01:08, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

it's mental, isn't it? flavour du jour. i have a dread of burial's new disc becoming the coffeetable album of 2008. gonna have to think about how to phrase this (unless someone else wants a a crack). And the reviews of this album have me a bit intrigued, think i'm going to check it out. apparently Freescha produces a track on it as well...--02:18, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA passed!

And here are some minor suggestions;

  • A relevant image would be nice at the start of the article
    i'm considering asking the photographer if they would release this photo to CC as an opener. or maybe this. opinions? also, GA! can i get a rewind on that one? --Kaini 02:32, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
    there is also [http://farm1.static.flickr.com/87/282300606_994493cc8e.jpg?v=0 this. which i think is not only really nice, but cc-by-sa-2.0 ;) --Kaini 03:10, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
    Those are good, but I don't think there's actually any space for a photo at the start of the article. If you look at other music genre articles (including good and featured articles) they just have an infobox like this one does.P4k 03:27, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
    That's no reason not to start a new precedent :) Then again, i fyou think it'd look worse...I dunno, I'd like it that way. Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 06:30, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Should "Dubstep" be capitalised? (eg. "Interest in dubstep grew further...")
    I can set this one straight, nope. - Zeibura (Talk) 17:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
    Cool, thanks for telling me that. Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 07:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
  • "(click to enlarge)" - Not needed, that's fairly self explanatory
    Y Done
  • Nice audio! :) Just make sure not to have too many...2 nonfree should be fine
  • Image:Skream1.jpg and Image:Mala(dmystikz).jpg could/should be on Commons.
    working on it --Kaini 02:36, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
    Y Done!
  • There are a few redlinks which don't look too nice...create or remove.
  • "(who has also included Dubstep tracks in his sets)[47] and included on a mix" - Should be a comma between the closing bracket and the ref.
    Y Done
  • I don't think that many external links are needed, see WP:EL.
    I've added {{subst:nomorelinks}} to the top of the section, as there have been a lot of extra links being added and removed for not being particularly useful. All the links in the list at the moment are relevant tho, so I wouldn't know where to start if we really have to thin it all down. - Zeibura (Talk) 17:57, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
    In that case they may need better descriptions - "Mary Anne Hobbs" doesn't really tell you much... Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 07:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
    It might make sense to remove Tempa since Wikipedia has an article about them.P4k 03:35, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 08:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Dihydrogen Monoxide ♫ 08:17, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dubstep news service

If you are interested in keeping up with the latest news in the Dubstep area, Popround runs a regularly updated service pointing to latest Dubstep news/blog posts:

Popround Dubstep News

[edit] drama

sigh --Kaini (talk) 19:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] rant

Look on the bright side, that thread contains useful criticisms and makes up for that lack of peer review we got here.

This basically sums up why I'm on wikibreak at the moment. I'm going to do my honest job as a wikipedia administrator, and kindly remind everyone that WP:V and WP:RS must take priority in everything, basically what you said on the forum. I did do a few news searches for barefiles and couldn't find anything beyond one article which only mentioned it in passing, just listing the name and not saying anything about it or how it was any special. Searching for anything about breakstep doesn't seem particularly fruitful either.

There's a reason why, on another plane, I can't find many sources that talk about bassline house and niche apart from "it came from sheffield, people got stabbed, the club got closed down, oh yeah and heartbroken reached #2 and got played in cyprus", surrounded by loads of journalist baby talk. even I could add more to that article off my own head, and I'm not even from up north. The reason is that most "reliable sources" about new genres of music (e.g. what the national press and magazines write) just tend to say exactly the same thing.

In this article it's been a bit easier because of Martin Clark's pitchfork articles, which are invaluable pieces by a trusted music journalist who goes really deep into dubstep. Beyond that though, there isn't much else we can say unless we miraculously manage to convince the peeps at featured article review that any kind of consensus we can determine from the users of dubstepforum counts as a reliable source. Don't get me wrong, I wish we could, since I trust most of the users on that forum and because of these limitations, far more can be learned about dubstep reading those posts than any music magazine, newspaper or free encyclopedia. Any scholar would probably assert that both sources are equally (un)reliable. And once again, the fact that the content of the breakstep article was written by the same guy who we're citing as a reference yet copying some of it over would make this article unfeaturable due to original research just makes me want to skream.

Anyway, I've adapted one of Epithet's suggestions of listing some of the important websites in the lede, with reference to that article which lists barefiles and gutterbreakz in passing. Dubstepforum's already mentioned in a few of the references. The lede needs some more expansion anyways if we're ever going to get this featured. Also, the link to barefiles is still in the external links section. - Zeibura ( talk ) 02:33, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wookie

Could he be one listed in 'estabilishing of sound' section? -- 86.57.254.215 (talk) 11:15, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

His 'Dirty Beats (Wookie's Dark Dub Mix)' from 2001 seems pretty dubstep. -- 86.57.254.215 (talk) 11:17, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thugstep

From the AfD for the article: This music "genre" appears to lack any reliable sources. All of the citations are either to unreliable sources (blogs/non-peer reviewed content) or to websites that do not explicitly mention "thugstep". Editors are welcome to google for themselves, but the limited results are not encouraging.

Please stop adding unsourced material and imaginary genres to Wikipedia for the purposes of advertising, anon. --Kaini (talk) 13:47, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Again, I will ask you to stop adding unsourced material to the article.
Here are your sources-
  1. a blog
  2. a thread on dubstepforum
  3. a blog
  4. a blog
  5. a dubstep site with no mention of "thugstep"
  6. a myspace page
  7. a forum thread
  8. a discogs page
  9. a myspace page
  10. a blog
These are not notable sources --Kaini (talk) 20:19, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
You haven't explained why this one is not a notable source. Though you tried it hard. -- 86.57.254.215 (talk) 09:24, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Just a slight correction here. Sources don't have to be notable - they do, however, have to be reliable. The Mashit.com link is not a reliable source, as it doesn't appear to have any guaranteed fact-checking or oversight. Additionally it doesn't even mention "thugstep". Wickethewok (talk) 22:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
whoops, yeah that's what i meant :P i was a bit flustered when i posted that --Kaini (talk) 23:15, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
FWIW, the nintendub mix the anon editor linked is pretty good, a mix of nice bass, hiphop acapellas and 8bit sounds. still a genre of 1 or 2 artists, but at least an interesting one. --Kaini (talk) 23:45, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Children of men

First off, great article, guys. So much better than all the articles for other electronic genres. But the bit about Children of Men using dubstep. Either this page is wrong or Children of Men is, because it only has one Digital Mystikz track mentioned but here you've got kode9 and a few more too. I haven't seen the film so I don't know which is right. Michael Clarke, Esq. (talk) 04:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

the film itself features anti-war dub by mystikz (one of my favourite dubstep tracks ever, incidentally). the soundtrack features additional material, as soundtracks are wont to do these days. that being;
  • Witness (1 Hope)- Roots Manuva (not dubstep, but sorta proto-dubstep, and a cracking track)
  • Backward- Kode9 And The Spaceape
  • Money Honey- Pressure Feat. Warrior Queen
  • Indian Stomp- Cyrus (Random Trio)

--Kaini (talk) 23:51, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bad references, roots

References to Steve Gurley, El-B as early promoters of DS are not working. Further searching The Wire site results no el-b and a link to burial's interview in case of gurley. Discogs search on those four (el-b, bias, gurley, jay) results only el-b and jay having original dubstep production, but all those four have a massive of remixes in dark garage era (1999-2002?). Some of them should be moved to dark garage -- 82.209.225.33 (talk) 11:13, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

the references are to the printed copy of that month's wire, which contained an excellent primer on dubstep. it's not reproduced on the site, but it's a perfectly reliable and citable reference. --Kaini (talk) 11:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
anyway references like those do not suit the article. -- Werwerwer11 (talk) 11:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
i suggest you re-read wiki's policies on sources. --Kaini (talk) 11:48, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
i suggest my balls in yer mouth - no page no reference -- 82.209.225.33 (talk) 12:10, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
WP:CIVIL, please. and printed sources are actually preferred to internet ones as they are less subject to link rot and are generally more stable. --Kaini (talk) 12:17, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] that latest ref

there's actually a genealogical diagram/chart (by martin clark, i presume) in the liner notes. a minor obsession of mine is getting it onto wiki - would be great in MANY articles, (even as a navbar or something!) but i really can't see a way of reproducing it whilst adhering to GFDL :( --01:03, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

This diagram shows that dubstep's origins is a 2-step garage by producers like Steve Gurley and El-B. So actually it was dark garage.--True Steppa (talk) 11:34, 28 May 2008 (UTC)