Talk:Dubica (Bosnia and Herzegovina)

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[edit] What's wrong with you people?

If you don't speak english properly, don't bother contributing at all. The article is a disaster.

[edit] Re: Name change

Let's see, I think that it could remain Bosanska Dubica due to its official historic name. The municipality was changed to Kozarska Dubica after the devastating war. The same occurred with several other municipalities in Bosnia and Herzegovina, such as "Novi Grad", which was eventually changed back to Kostajnica. The people of Bosanska Dubica have formed petitions to ask for the official renaming. The link for this can be found at:

http://www.bosnjaci.net/bosdubica_peticija.php

Since you can read Bosnian there should not be any complications with the understanding of the text. The system was made to accept both Bosanska Dubica and Dubica since people use both. The name Kozarska Dubica is mostly (emphasis on most) used as a provacative statement. Now changing the name of the article would not lead to the end of this dispute. This is since the Serbian article named under Kozarska Dubica was not changed to Bosanska Dubica. The people of each nation view the city under a different name. I value your opinions but do not see the name change as a positive step for the article. --written by User:Kseferovic 9:30 CST United States, Chicago.

These arguments are ridiculous. Wikipedia is not about which name you like more, but which name is official and which is not. PANONIAN (talk) 22:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

(For Estavisti) Explain to me how English is your naitive language, since you live in Serbia. Knowing English and learning it before Serbian (native) are two different things.

I want to ask why is name of this city Bosanska Dubica, when is official name Kozarska Dubica

please visit   www.kozarskadubica.org

Just about 1000 people wrote petition abuot change of name to Bosanska Dubica What about other 30000 peole who want name Kozarska. In the name of those 30000 people who live in Kozarska Dubica, you have to change name on en.wikipedia !!!

[edit] Re: Question

Dear user 81.93.93.189 (That is your Computer IP Address),

  • The petition list is still active, and is growing day by day. Also there are 1757 people who sign the petition as of midnight April 16, 2006.)

I do not think that the name should be changed. There are about 28,000 Serbs in Dubica, not all of them want to keep the name Kozarska Dubica.

Tell me where all of the nice, smart, and intellectual Serbs went, they all left Dubica because of the war. You really cannot find that many Serbs, who grew up in Bosanska Dubica, living there now. Many of the Serbs, living in Dubica now, are war refugees who came from Croatia after the Operation Storm (and other places).

Most of the Serbs who grew up in Dubica are friends with all, meaning they are friends with Bosniaks, Croatians, and Serbs. They feel that their home town is Bosanska Dubica. It was Dubica for hundreds of years, before that it was known as Turkish Dubica.

There are Serbs on the petition list that want the name changed, also please do not speak in the name of the whole town. This is not a political website, no one wants to argue or dispute.

(This is the same issue that occured in the town and municipality of Foča. Serbs called it Srbinje, but later it was changed back to Foča. The same will occur with Bosanska Dubica.)

SEVERAL FACTUAL EVIDENCES:

  • Have you noticed the offical stamp that the Municipality uses STATES Bosanska Dubica. Internationally Bosanska Dubica is recognized, NOT Kozarska Dubica. Look at Google Earth or any other satalite imagery website, they all have Bosanska Dubica written.
  • Also look at (Verizon Wireless.com -> Cell phone company) www.Verizonwireless.com, when you look at the reception for Bosnia and Herzegovina and find the town of Dubica, it says Bosanska Dubica.
  • Internationally BOSANSKA DUBICA is recognized, that is what matters.

Thank You, --Kseferovic 03:59, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

At the present moment it is recognized only as Kozarska Dubica and Wikipedia should follow that. If name in the future change into something else, then name of the article should be changed too, but the current name of the article should reflect current official name. PANONIAN (talk) 22:24, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hopefully Resolved Issue

Since, there was a great issue on what name to use for the article, I simply changed the article refrences (in the text) to the town/municipality, from Kozarska/Bosanska Dubica to ---> Dubica. This way we can all agree. The Bosnians and Croatians call the town Bosnaska Dubica (Bosnian Dubica), while the Serbs "counter-attack" by calling the town Kozarska Dubica. Kozarska Dubica gets its name from a close by mountain of Kozara. Both Bosanska Dubica and Kozarska Dubica are official city/municipality names (Example: You can write Bosanska or Kozarska Dubica while sending mail and it will arrive there, whether it be from Bosnia, Germany, or USA, both names are recognized). All three ethnicities agree upon the use of the name Dubica.

Hopefully this will end the name issue.

Kseferovic 21:11, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name change

Please see:

According to the official RS government web site, Kozarska Dubica is official name of the town. We do not have reason to use old name from SFRY. PANONIAN (talk) 22:16, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica is true.

Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica is the official Municipality name. I went to BiH this year and on the official ID CARDS and other official papers such as birth certificates for kids born now. The government papers state Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica. For the Town names it is separated Bosanska Dubica or Kozarska Dubica depending on the circumstances. Thanks and I am serious, Kseferovic 01:22, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Several Government/International Owned links:

[edit] Official name is Kozarska Dubica

Most of those web sites you provided are not official ones, and even the last web site you provided mention name Kozarska Dubica (http://www.oscebih.org/democratization/municipalities.asp?d=3). The web site of the RS government (http://www.vladars.net/en/srpska/opstine.html) also mention it as Kozarska Dubica, so the name of the article should be changed to official town name - Kozarska Dubica. PANONIAN (talk) 16:00, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Check this out

Here I have an official Bosnian and Herzegovinian Resident ID card issued by the BiH government. It states Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica. Both are valid in this case.

BiH Idea Stating that the municipality name is Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica that is as official as it gets
BiH Idea Stating that the municipality name is Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica that is as official as it gets
This is of the same importance, the voting papaers state Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica
This is of the same importance, the voting papaers state Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica

[edit] This is official

This should resolve all issues along with the links above "Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica is true.". Thank you, Kseferovic 01:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Documents in Bosnia-Herzegovina could be published in any of the 3 official languages. You asked that your documents are published in Bosnian language, thus name Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica is simply a name used for the town in Bosnian language. If you asked that your documents are published in Serbian, then name there would be only Kozarska Dubica written exclusively in Cyrillic script. Since all 3 official languages of Bosnia-Herzegovina are equal, and since Serbian language is main language spoken in this town, then name of the Wikipedia article should use name used in Serbian, and that is Kozarska Dubica. PANONIAN (talk) 12:00, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

This is official: This link shows the current name of all the cities and places in the Bosnian entity Republika Srpska presented by the government of the Republika Srpska. This list takes into account also the sentence of the Bosnian constitutional court regarding the name changes of cities and places in the Republika Srpska. This sentence considered all names including Srpski/Srpska/Srpsko as well as Srbinje as not valid. Hence, other changes as for Novi Grad and Kozarska Dubica were accepted by the court. So, Kozarska Dubica ist the current official name of the city and the lemma of this article should show this, too. --Mazbln 19:54, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the town name, but the municipality name is Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica. The article is on the municipality as a whole. Thanks, Vseferović 00:38, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name (again)

Now, I looked more about this problem and although documents that User:Kseferovic showed do mention "Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica" name variant, this does not mean that town (or municipality) officially have double name, but that officially two different names are equaly used for it. Since Wikipedia does not support double naming of articles, I propose that name of this article is changed into one single name whether this name is "Kozarska Dubica" or "Bosanska Dubica". It should be chechked which of these two names is more often used and name of the article should be changed into it. PANONIAN (talk) 01:34, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name change voting

In accordance with my previous post I propose that name of this article is changed either to Kozarska Dubica either to Bosanska Dubica because double naming is against practice in Wikipedia. So, I propose fair voting that majority of users can decide which of the two names should be used. Please vote below and writte short explanation why you vote like that. PANONIAN (talk) 10:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article name should be Kozarska Dubica

  1. PANONIAN (talk) 10:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC) - Although, government of Bosnia and Herzegovina officially use both names of the municipality, government of Republika Srpska use name Kozarska Dubica, which can be seen on official web site of the government of Republika Srpska: http://www.vladars.net/en/srpska/opstine.html Therefore, Kozarska Dubica seems to be most common name of the municipality. PANONIAN (talk) 10:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article name should be Bosanska Dubica

  1. One can argue this both ways. Either you support the government variant of both names or the RS variant of Koz. I suggest we keep it this way or that we change the name to Dubica (Bosnia and Herzegovina). This is what has been placed on the border crossing of Dubica. The name on the border crossing used to be "Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica", however, it was changed to simply Dubica. No one can dispute the name Dubica. The only fair decision should be "Dubica" or the keeping of the current one since it is official as well. Vseferović 03:21, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Well, Dubica (Bosnia and Herzegovina) is a good solution for the name. PANONIAN (talk) 17:37, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, the issue of double naming exists for several towns (all in Republika Srpska AFAICT): Novi, Dubica, Šamac, Foča come to my mind, plus some "split" municipalities (Goražde, Vukosavlje). While the WP:NC(CN) may dictate some choices (Foča clearly outweights Srbinje--is the latter outlawed now?), most of the towns are too small to have a "common English name".
One way out is to apply the "South Tyrol solution" (I can dig out the discussion link if someone wants), where the Italian/German names were picked up by applying town's ethnic majority name (where WP:NC(CN)/WP:UE weren't applicable);the old titles were at Bozen-Bolzano and like (but see WP:LAME#Involving other languages). Of course, in this case, 1991 census results should be used (although it opens another Pandora's box of picking up the criteria, e.g. municipality or town's majority?)
Another way out is to find a "compromise" name like this one (although I don't quite like it for aesthetic reasons). I'm not actually proposing any of it, just thinking aloud...

And, btw, the Infobox RS/Infobox Bih municipality edit dispute is fairly childish... Reminds me of Serbian government... Duja► 09:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, the people that live there use these names, the people of RS use these names, and these names are official where it counts - in the RS.--Hadžija 15:24, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name

The town is called Kozarska Dubica, but is used to be called Bosanska Dubica. What the Federation or central government does doesn't matter one jot, because they don't have any authority over Republika Srpska in this area and as you can see, RS has made the name Kozarska Dubica official.[1]--Hadžija 16:06, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

There is no central government, there is 2 entites governemnt and the parliament is consisted of people from both RS, Federation and Distrikt Brcko.

And the Federation calls the city Bosanska Dubica while the official name of the city is Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica.

My suggestion is that you go to the city and vote in the next election and you will se the name of the city. Alkalada 08:35, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Ok, how many times I have to repeat that if you have "/" sign in documents that you do not have one but TWO names. If documents have "Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica", those are two names, not one, and we speak about two names used equally, not about one (frankenstain-made) name composed of two names. PANONIAN 06:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

But PANONIAN, all that matters is what the law says, and anything else is common usage. Of course we should make a note about that dual usage in documents, but while documents are official, I'm sure you'll agree laws are a lot more official.--Hadžija 18:30, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Listen

PANONIAN and I discussed this in a civil and fair manner. We went through all the options and decided on what should stay in the article and how the article name should be written as. There is no reason for once again causing disputes. We made it fair for all three ethnicities of BiH and followed BiH's government. Both are used. Vseferović 17:56, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Seferoviću, I don't care what you agreed with someone else, what you consider to be "fair" and for whom. All I want is a factually accurate article. Why don't you write a short section explaining the name issue? For example:

The official name is X, but it used to Y and was changed because of Z. Generally, Group A accept and use the newer official name, while Group B consider it illegitimate and reject it. The joint institutions tend to use both names in parallel.

Something like that. What do you think?--Hadžija 18:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that both are recognized by the government of Bosnia-Herzegovina. "Bosanska Dubica/Kozarska Dubica". Pov comes in when one recognizes only "Kozarska Dubica". This would be unfair to the Bosniaks and Croat minorities. What is wrong with following the BiH government? Vseferović 20:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, it doesn't matter what the joint institutions use or not. BiH is a decentralised state, and the official names of towns are regulated by the Закон о територијалној организацији и локалној самоуправи Републике Српске.[2] It doesn't matter what I or you think about it, that's the way it is. Whether the name is discriminatory is a matter of opinion. Even if it is discriminatory (and I don't think it is), that is the official name. Wikipedia merely reflects the reality, and if the name offends you so much, you should try to change the official name with a citizens' initiative or petition. I recognise the name issue is complex, so I invite you again to write a section explaining the intricacies of the problem - but please write about things as they are, not the way you'd like them to be.--Hadžija 20:37, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] location

There is an Wikipedia sign "Bosanska Dubica" near the croatian town Nova Gradiška, which is wrong because Bosnska Dubica is 50 km more south-west, and in other country - Bosnia and Herzegovina 78.0.147.23 12:00, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Now I understand what you are talking about. You mean the map coordinates are off, which you are completely right. I will try to find the correct coordinates as soon as possible. Thank you, Vseferović 04:15, 5 September 2007 (UTC)