User talk:Dtaylor1984

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Welcome!

Hello, Dtaylor1984, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! , SqueakBox 20:32, September 9, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] US GP

I am afraid to tell you that Ret are only for the cars that actually start the race. DNS stands for when a car does not take a a race start. Makes sense. By having Ret listed that mean the driver has actually started in that race. The formation lap does not count as a lap at all. For an example in the official F1 rule book states an good example on race starts. For when does a driver 'start' a Grand Prix? To my mind he does so only if he is on the grid when the flag drops or light goes green at the final start. Should a driver have failed to compete the formation lap, for instance (as was the case with Prost at Imola in 1991), he cannot truly be said to have started the race. In the case of restarted events such as the British GP in 1986, poor Jacques Laffite certainly did start the race, but this was declared null and void and he was not presented to take the restart, which is the only one that counts. For true official race results is best to get them off www.forix.com as they receive their race results from the officials. Yes I know formula1.com is official but not 100% official in statistics. If you decide to leave it as Ret then you must give all the drivers a race start count! Andreasu 09:41, 12 September 2005

In your words, when a driver does not take 50 races starts would that make him having started 50 races yes or no? You tell me. Its quite an easy answer. Also how come the FIA does NOT count for the drivers who didn't start the race in the USA as a race start... There is your answer its a DNS. Now here is a good example, all the F1 driver's profile on wikipedia have listed as race starts instead of participations which means to how many grands prix they have been to. Lets look at Nick Heidfeld for an example, he has started 92 races to the 2005 Canadian Grand Prix now is the question will he have started his 93rd race at the US Grand Prix, yes or no? No of course. Believe me I have researched 6 years into Formula 1 DNS and also have data given by the FIA how it works and they have the same answer that I am getting I don't know why they list as 'Ret' instead of DNS for the US GP. Another real good example is when Michael Schumacher qualified on pole for 1996 French Grand Prix, on the formation lap his Ferrari's engine let go on him so he didn't start the race because he didn't participate in the race when the lights when green, well and wikipedia actually doesn't count this race as a race start because then you end up having a race start extra on M Schumacher's profile, if you do the maths for yourself then he will have a extra race starts if you add the 1996 French GP as a race start. Andreasu 10:26, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I have send an email to formula1.com regarding the DNS and Ret for the US GP. I hope to hear from them soon with an answer.

I actually have contacted a person who I sort oif know that his involved with the FIA, he gave me this message on DNS "Thanks for the info. Apparently there are two distinct official criteria. Before 1994 a retirement on the parade lap was counted as a DNS - such as 91-San Marino-Prost - but after 1994 those retirements are included in the official classifications as DNF - such as 96-France-M.Schumacher or the recent USA GP." Now he said he will get back to me to check on that if they didn't make an error or it is correct. Andreasu 21 September 2005 20:23pm

Here is the answer to the 2005-USA GP. The formula1.com is incorrect as listing as ret instead of DNS. This were the responses from the following people. Renowned F1 statistians, like David Hayhoe or Autosport's Peter Higham agree that all Michelin drivers were DNS in 2005-USA, but consider a RET if a driver didn't made a re-start, for example. That was the common view in the past - no contemporary source listed Lauda as a DNS in 1976-Germany - and they simply ignore the current "null and void" FIA rule. I totally agree to change it as DNS not Ret as they didn't take part on the first lap. Andreasu 16:53, 01 October 2005