Talk:Drei Chinesen mit dem Kontrabass

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An entry from Drei Chinesen mit dem Kontrabass appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on July 16, 2006.

++Lar: t/c 04:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 English equivalent 2 Norwegian equivalent 3 French 4 Hebrew 5 "Chinamen" seems inappropriate

[edit] English equivalent

This sounds a lot like the English song "I like to eat, eat, eat, apples and bananas" I used to sing in preschool and kindergarten. The gimmick is to replace most or all of the vowels with a different one each repetition, for example "I like to oot, oot, oot, ooples and banoonoos" or even "Oo loook to oot, oot, oot, ooples oond boonoonoos". I'll start looking for sources so I can write an article about it. —Keenan Pepper 05:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Norwegian equivalent

This sounds very much like a Norwegian childrens song I learned when learning Norwegian as an exchange student. I think it went something like this:

Tre små kinesere fra Høbroplass Satt og spilte på en kontrabass. Så kom en konstabel, spurte hva det var. Tre små kinesere fra Høybroplass.

Three small Chinamen from Høbroplass Sat and played on a double bass Along came a constable, asked what it was Three small Chinamen from Høbroplass.

However, that was 10 years ago and I soon moved on from nonsense songs, so my memory might be a little faulty!

Being the author of the corresponding German article, I am grateful for all the bits and pieces of extra information added on the English talk page. Thx, also, to Janneman for taking the trouble of translating the article. I'm sure I'll use some of the ideas here and re-transfer them into the original text. This Norwegian version I find particularly interesting since the lyrics are virtually identical. Do you happen to remember if the same applies to the melody? --Rainer Lewalter 13:54, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] French

The French song with an identical device goes:

Buvons un coup ma serpette est perdue Mais le manchche, mais le manche Buvons un coup ma serpette est perdue Mais le manche est revenue

Let's have a swill my pruning knife has vanished But the handle, but the handle Let's have a swill my pruning knife has vanished But the handle has come back

The liaison after "buvons" is pronounced with a /t/ rather than the expected /z/. Circeus 13:19, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hebrew

There's a Hebrew translation, with certain changes:

שניים סינים עם כינור גדול ישבו בצד הכביש ופטפטו בקול גדול בא שוטר, גירש אותם וזה הכל שניים סינים עם כינור גדול

Two Chinamen with a big violin Sat on the side of the road and chatted loudly Came a policeman, chased them away and that is all Two Chinamen with a big violin

IBB 00:09, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

In Hebrew-English:

Shnaim sinim im kinor gadol

Yashvu betzad hakvish vepitpetu bekol gadol,

Ba shoter, geresh otam, veze hakol,

Shnaim sinim im kinor gadol.

21:14, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Chinamen" seems inappropriate

Why is the translation "Chinamen" used? Just "Chinese" would be perfectly proper. "Chinamen" seems dated and offensive, which the German original is by no means. I'd suggest replacing the word in the whole article. Repetition 03:26, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

note that the song originated in the early 20th century, in the time of European colonialism, therefore IS dated, and does in a way carry undertones which by today's standard might be considered offensive, if not outright racist; the Chinamen/ Chinese men represent something outlandish/other. Chinamen brings across this connotation quite neatly, I think. --Janneman 11:41, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Exactly because the song is not racist I tried to remove the suggestive undertone that this translation with "Chinamen" introduced. Do you have any source for racism in this song, besides your claim that anything from the colonial/imperial era that mentions an ethinicity has to be racist? Sounds like original research to me. -- Repetition 06:29, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

connotation ≠ meaning. The racism that latter-day postcolonials read into the song as explicitly present is noted and sourced, but it is also made clear that things look quite different from a historical perspective. the early 1900s were, like it or not, the era of an intrinsically racist European imperialism. This is the historical context in which the song originated, and it's far from OR to say so and doesn't warrant a source which explicitly makes reference to the song itself. It's a matter of fact -if you don't like to call it outright racism, try (as I suggested above) - otherness or eben Orientalism. You will probably admit that "Chinaman" as opposed to "Chinese man" was most common designation of a native of China in English usage until the discourse on political correctness changed matters not too long ago. Therefore, in this here article, Chinaman is a perfectly valid and historically concordant translation. --Janneman 21:09, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

So are you of the opinion that the song is offensive or not? Because most of this article says it's not, just the translation pops out. I think one should not translate it using racist diction because the original diction is not racist, the song is not even stereotyping or offending Chinese, basically because it's a "nonsensical children's song". By using the racist/historicizing translation you imply that German children are still learning and singing a racist song to this day. This IMO wrong impression is what I would like to correct. Repetition 22:43, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Just how often do I have to repeat my arguments until someone cares to read them? --Janneman 21:16, 7 July 2007 (UTC)