Talk:Draught beer
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[edit] Requested move
- Rationale: "Draught" used since earliest edits, predominantly used in current version of article. –Hajor 17:14, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
This article has been renamed as the result of a move request. violet/riga (t) 23:16, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Comments
Could you please provide a little more info on the history of the article, as well as information on the uses of both phrases. Trying to read between the lines of the article history, this looks like a very old Wikipedia article that was converted from usemod to WikiMedia on 3 Feb 2002 (at that time, the article was very much a substub). It looks like it was moved from Draft beer to Draught beer on 7 Mar 2004. When did it get re-moved back to Draft Beer? BlankVerse ∅ 09:31, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
"80 times less soluble" is impossible. You should find another way to say what you mean. It is possible for co2 to be 80 times more soluble than nitrogen or for nitrogen to be a some percentage less soluble than co2
Also what is the benefit of nitrogen being less soluble than co2?
What about beers that are hand pumped?
[edit] Draught beer /= Keg beer
The expression 'draught beer' is by no means exclusive to keg-dispense beer.
According to Michael Jackson :
- Draught beer is, by definition, drawn from a cask or keg. [1]
According to the OED entry for "draught" :
- c. Of liquor: On draught; drawn or ready to draw from the cask: as draught ale, beer, etc.
- 1835 DICKENS Sk. Boz (1837) 2nd Ser. 39 A pot of the real draught stout. 1893 Daily News 27 Feb. 4/7 Whisky will keep, and draft ale will not. 1971 Daily Tel. 13 May 13/6 Draught beer..is brewed from hops, malt and yeast and is served either by tap or by hand (suction) pump directly from the barrel.
According to the rec.food.drink.beer FAQ :
- Subject: 1-11. What is "draught" (draft) beer?
- Technically speaking, draught beer is beer served from the cask in which it has been conditioned. It has been applied, loosely, to any beer served from a large container. More recently, it has been used as a promotional term for canned or bottled beer to try to convince us that the beer inside tastes like it came from a cask. See also "Real Ale". [2]
Again, the colloquial meaning of draught beer may well imply to many "keg beer", but I think it would be more accurate if we moved the keg-specific parts of the draught beer article to keg beer (or something else less ambiguous). Certainly the colloquial meanings of the words should be covered in the article, but for the title paragraph we should stick to the definition of the words as I quoted Mr. Jackson above.
--Dforest 22:28, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
I've added a history of draught beer to indicate usage of the term over the years. I hope this makes it clearer why the term draught is generally not taken to include cask - though, as with most terms, there is some archaic or deviant usage of draught which does include cask. I hope the archaic usage is explained in the article by the history of the term. SilkTork 12:15, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
The history is a welcome addition. Please read the article from which I took the Jackson quote. [3] In it he clearly uses 'draught' to refer to all beer served on tap, and later discusses cask ale as a type of draught beer. He goes on to say: "Another advantage of draught is that, if it is cask-conditioned, it is not pasteurised. Nor is all keg draught treated in this way." Interesting how the latest OED citation of the word is 1971, the same year CAMRA was started. I still believe it can be used as Mr. Jackson used it in that article (published online in 1998). Considering his influence as a beer expert, it suggests to me that the more inclusive meaning is still current. I don't consider his usage archaic. I've seen beer menus that confirm this, listing 'draught beers', and the cask-conditioned ales are part of that list and labeled so. Certainly keg beers are more common than cask ales today, but that doesn't make the word exclusive to the former. 'Draught beer' still means 'beer drawn from a cask or keg'. If you want to talk about keg beer, you call it 'keg beer', or 'keg dispensed'.
According to the Leeds CAMRA glossary [4]:
- Draught Beer A generic term for any beer that is stored in a large container and then transferred to smaller containers when served. It therefore covers both real ale (qv) and keg beer (qv).
What do other people think about this? --Dforest 01:02, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
I happened to read the article with a full version of the OED and an Anglo-Saxon dictionary to hand. The OED certainly does not link draught with german tragen. It most likelys come from OE dragan (to drag 'draw'). I could not see anyway to sensibly retain the link with german "carry" without misleading the reader - so I removed it.
88.109.61.156 30 June 2006
Well, SilkTork has reinstated it (including the misspelling of 'dragan'), but without justifying his/her action. This is clearly folk etymology. In reality, 'tragen' comes from 'dragan' – not the other way round. Of the 36 main noun and adjective senses listed in the New SOED, only two (e.g. "The depth of water needed to float a ship. E17.") have any connection with carrying rather than drawing. 'Draught' (from the same root as 'draw', 'drag' and ultimately even 'extract') is clearly about pulling. In the case of beer, this means suction – i.e. lowering the pressure at the outlet rather than raising it at the source. SilkTork seems to have joined the separate dots of 'pulling' the pint and drinking it down (as in these New SOED definitions), and lumped in the serving and carrying for good measure.
- A n.
- 3 A single act of drinking or of inhaling tobacco smoke etc.; (long obs. exc. Sc.) breathing; an amount drunk or inhaled at one go. ME.
- 11 The action of drawing liquor from a cask etc.; the condition of being (ready to be) so drawn. LME
- 11 on draught (of beer etc.) ready to be drawn from a cask, not bottled or canned etc.
- B attrib. or as adj.
- 2 Of beer etc.: on draught (see sense 11 above). M19.
As it stands, the 'History of draught' section is mostly palpable nonsense – 'en pression', for instance, is literally the opposite of 'draught'. For now, I'll just stick some citation requests in. I'll try to sort it out later, if no one else beats me to it.
If 'draught' really did relate to the serving and carrying of drinks, it would be pretty useless as a means of denoting a particular class of beer. Grant 23:15, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
The Japanese use the term "daft beer" (生ビール nama biiru) to mean beer that has not been pasturized. One of the most popular Japanese beers (even in the US) is Asahi Super Dry. As can be seen on the Asahi Super Dry label (both bottles and cans) it is described in English as "Asahi Draft Beer". See http://asoboo.com/images/full/33391.jpg near the top of the can. I believe this lack of pasturization means that the yeast is still alive. --Westwind273 (talk) 21:14, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Picture
Be nice if someone could upload a picture of a beer tap. SilkTork 12:47, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Criticism
Why exactly do some older conservative beer drinkers have a problem with Draught beer. I looked at the link and it really didn't have anything about it. How exactly, does draught beer change the taste? If someone could add a criticism section to the article it would be great.
[edit] jhfhkfhkg
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[edit] Germanic?
"draught" ist more likely to derive from Germanic than German roots, is it not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.227.245.137 (talk) 15:01, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
