Talk:Dragons (Pern)

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[edit] Dragons, firelizards and the common side-blotched lizard

Has anyone else noticed the correlation between the five morphs of dragons and firelizards (gold and green females; bronze, brown and blue males) and those of the common side-blotched lizard (orange- and yellow-throated females; orange-, blue- and yellow-throated males) with their different sizes, colors, temperaments and mating strategies? Did McCaffrey consciously model her dragons and firelizards on multi-gendered Earth lizards, or is it coincidence?

Actually, she based them off of horses. Strange, I know. But she did. Disinclination 01:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Only one queen egg per clutch?

That's incorrect. There are several mentions, especially after the Oldtimers are brought forward, of queen dragons having clutches with more than one gold egg.

I don't recall any mention of queens being incapable of breathing fire, only that like the greens, chewing firestone makes them sterile. I'd have to dig out the books for the exact reference, but it involves a current generation person being astonished that the Oldtimers fly queens against thread and that chewing firestone makes them sterile. That leads to the explanation of the queen riders using flamethrowers as low flying "sweepers" to flame any Thread missed by the others above, and to land and flame any Thread that hits the ground.

In Dragonsdawn (about the 1st Pass), the queens chew firestone, but are unable to get any flame; they do remain fertile, however. Could be that, over the years, "Queens shouldn't chew firestone because it won't work" morphed into "Queens shouldn't chew firestone because it makes them sterile", and no one cared to test the theory and ruin their queen's fertility. (Or, in real life, McCaffrey may have realized that the original queen riders would have of course tried firestone, and the entire species would have been wiped out if it had actually worked.) --ScottAlanHill 19:59, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
Not quite. What happened in Dragonsdawn is that they tried chewing firestone but couldn't bring themselves to do it, because of a hang-up ingrained in their genetic makeup to prevent them from sterilizing themselves. Noneofyourbusiness 19:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
-nods- The queens basically 'threw up' the chewed firestone. Disinclination 00:49, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
However, the greens were genetically made sterile DUE to Kitti Ping, as discovered in.. Dragonsdawn? Or CoP? I can't remember, but its one of those two books. Disinclination 01:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Merger with Weyr

Disagree. In my view these are separate topics. The article on Pernese dragons should deal with the beasts' history, physiology, and habits, while the article on Weyrs should treat the physical, social, and political structure of this pillar of Pernese society. As of this writing, this is largely the case. Furthermore, the list of Weyrs and their founding in the Weyr article fits there, but would be collatteral in this article. --Apascover 18:56, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] gender shortcuts

I've noticed that the dragon genders seem to follow an easy to understand shortcut
Boys
Bronze
Brown
Blue
Girls
Gold
Green


it seems like something that should go in there but i want sure where to put it or how to phrase it anyone else want to give it a try? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Joelaarhus (talk • contribs) 05:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

Greens in the later passes actually bond more frequently to men, than females. It should be stated in the article that females can bond to greens and blues, and males bond to every one of the dragons except for gold. It also depends upon a rider's sexuality. Disinclination 04:19, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sexuality

Okay, totally scrap what I said up there about sexuality. After reading this thread 'How Gay are Gays outside of the Weyr?', which is from the official Anne McCaffery forum, along with several other articles, it is made known that a dragon does not know who his or her rider will be outside of the egg. So, how can a dragon impress a heterosexual woman, or a homosexual man, if they don't know them before the hatching? It probably all depends on the minds' of the Candidates, somewhat, I believe, to be their personality (something about phermones is mentioned, but then again, Ms. McCaffery I believe does not have a degree in biology). When females were standing less and less on the Sands for greens, the green dragons turned to effeminate boys. Why? Because they were effeminate. Now, Mr. Male Green Rider may not be gay, but he could be somewhat girlish. Same goes with females impressing blues or browns; Could they be somewhat butch or manly? Or perhaps have somewhat weyrsecond qualities (another leadership, but not enough for gold or bronze rank)?

And why do golds and bronzes have to strictly Impress heterosexual females and males? When Impression occurs, a dragon will know yes, but what about before that? Naturally, it must fall to the qualities that a dragon sees in a Candidate.

The reason I posted that link, was simply because if you look through the articles, and search the articles as well (Very long discussion about Wirenth and Prideth's origins, along with Moreta's and Leri's), they are extremely well thought out, with plenty of quotes. Just something to look through, if you have the time.

I believe that the sections that mention sexuality should be rewritten, at least to reflect this, simply because, in reality (or as much as Pern can be realistic), there can be no definitives with our limited resources on what Pern is. I mean, bronzeriders MUST have gay sex (or at least arrange themselves so their rider is with a female at the time, but that might not be the case), especially before Lessa's ride, simply because there was only one gold dragon at the time ... with an incompetant, obese rider. In fact, it was mentioned a few times, in DF or in MHoP, that Nemorth often gorged before her flights, probably leaving alot of pissed off bronzes.

Just something to think about, and probably to change. These articles really need to be edited and looked over.

EDIT: Here are some links also dealing with the subject: Impressing Browns, Blues, and Bronzes and Women I will continue to add later on, if I find any others. Disinclination 08:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter *why* the dragons make the choices they do. For canon Pern, these are the rules, like it or not, agree with Anne's reasoning or not. So, we have Canon Rules, where Anne is correct because it hs her world. Then we have fandom, where fans can change the rules around to what they think are right and "correct" what they think is wrong on Pern. Because no matter how many Pern books Anne writes (supposedly she will not write any more books on her own), we will never see a woman ride brown or blue (she agrees it may be possible but it will never happen in *her* -canon- Pern). So, these considerations can be discussed in the "fandom considerations" portion of the article, but not the discussion of how *canon* Pern works. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.138.64.161 (talk) 03:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC).
Sadly, however, her lack of knowledge and her ability to twist truths into lies is what makes her reasoning faulty. Including her coliqually known Tent peg theory and "world renowned" scientists. Disinclination 06:33, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Why is this article so obsessed with the sexuality of dragon riders in the first place? As it is written now, anyone new to Pern reading this article might get the impression that the whole series is erotic fiction. Why don't we make "sexuality of Pern dragonriders" it's own article and move the refrences from this article there?JBPostma (talk) 20:51, 10 April 2008 (UTC)