Talk:Dragonlance

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[edit] Released months/years

Regarding months, I think that for books released the same year it help clarify that they weren't released simultaneously, but rather throughout the year in question. Not that it's all that big a deal but I think it's worth keeping in. Also, did Dragons of Summer Flames really come out in ninety-six? I'm only asking cuz it's such a huge jump. -- Ducker 00:30 Mar 5, 2003 (UTC)

I don't know that it's true, but it seems perfectly logical with what I remember. The first three were a discrete trilogy, and no one expected a fourth, which was sort of a inferior sequel (from what others have said, I haven't read Summer Flames). So, I think there was a gap between the first three and the last one. Tuf-Kat
Yes, Summer Flame did come out in '96. It's not really part of the Chronicles, despite being labeled as such. It takes place about 30 years after the events of the Chronicles Trilogy, and it won't make sense unless you read other books after Chronicles and before Summer Flame. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 154.20.208.181 (talk • contribs) .
  • Are you sure the first one I read was Summer Flame and it made sense to me.

I did some research and found out the release date for Dwarven Depths i made the edit as well as the link called lost Chronicles, i hope you all agree with it. Its a wizard of the coast link and has details on the story. Supersumoman

[edit] Clarification

For most of Dragonlance's history, 'main storyline' has meant those books that were set in the world's 'present' and moved events forward. For example, until Dragons of Summer Flame, almost all novels were set before the Chronicles trilogy, often in ancient history -- I'm not sure exactly what this paragraph is trying to say. I'd like to edit it, but I'm reluctant to even start at this point. FrozenPurpleCube 02:08, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

It means what it says, even though it is hard to understand. Most of the books after the Chronicles series were based before the events in Chronicles (Legends starts out after Chronicles, but most of that trilogy is based in the past). Hypernova2121 06:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] War of the Lance redirect

I believe the War of the Lance article should not redirect here, instead be a Dragonlance event explaining the war. I am considering writing that article in the near future, so don't be surprised if the redirection is broken. -- ReyBrujo 05:10, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Creators of Dragonlance series

"Weis and Hickman are widely, if incorrectly, regarded as the creators (or owners) of Dragonlance." In some paperback editions of the Chronicles, there was a foreward by Margaret Weis in which she talked about the player who created the character of Raistlin. The adventure that inspired Chronicles was a module written by Tracy Hickman and first played at a convention in Utah, and Margaret Weis was one of the players (I think she played Tasselhoff). A careful reading of the story allows you to identify what spells and actions, by AD&D 1st Edition rules, were performed when, in the course of the adventure; sometimes right down to what die rolls occurred. The foreward talked about how the guy that played Raistlin was always speaking in a raspy voice, that made everyone hang on his every word; and that the group was so impressed with this one player's role-playing, that Weis and Hickman were convinced that they could publish and sell the story. I think the convention also sponsored that adventure as a "Tournament Module", but my memory is not clear on that.

Arqeynjl 08:24, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

No, that's not what convinced Weis and Hickman to write the novels. That decision was made by TSR executives before the modules were written. The idea behind the project was to create a series of modules and a corresponding series of novels at the same time. Yes, the way the module was played influenced what happened in the books, but not the decision to write them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 154.20.208.181 (talk • contribs) .
I don't remember who, but if I recall correctly, back in those years D&D players were saying things like "We have the dungeons, where are the dragons?". After writing some modules for TSR, Tracy was contacted by them to create a new branch where the dragons would be the main topic. While travelling by car to his new house, Tracy and his wife were discussing about knights fighting dragons on dragonback using special weapons. So, the creator is Tracy.
I just looked at his site, and he confirms this here. -- ReyBrujo 19:56, 5 February 2006 (UTC)


Terry Phillips played Raistlin. Harold Johnson played Tasselhoff. I don't remember who played the others. MikeSims (talk) 04:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Moving list of books

I am planning on moving the list of books to List of Dragonlance novels. That way they could be categorized into the ‪Lists of books‬ and ‪Series of books categories for easier access. It would also allow to create articles about each of the trilogies, including pics and an introduction. If nobody complains, I will begin in a couple of weeks. -- ReyBrujo 19:59, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

I started recopilating information about the books in that list. Some dates are confusing, as the paperbacks I have state a previous date of first release than the ones appearing in Amazon. With some luck, the list should be completed and as accurate as possible by the deadline. -- ReyBrujo 05:06, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Artifacts Merge Suggestion

I disagree with the suggestion of merging the Artifacts article here. It has no more place here than the lists of Creatures, Characters, Locations, or Novels. It's a bit shorter now, but mainly because I just created it as a stub while I was cleaning up the novels synopsis', and I haven't gotten a chance to flesh it out yet. Once it's had proper information added to it, it'll be more significant. --Maelwys 05:37, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I would agree that the artifacts article shouldn't be merged. The artifacts article concerns a detailed part of Dragonlance, it's not a summary that should be merged with this article.

ddcc 20:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neatral Dragons

Okay a spellt neatral wrong and other words but anyway I read somewhere that they were going to have neutral Dragons. I think I spellt it right do you think we should mention it.

If you knew you spelled it wrong, why'd you point it out instead of correcting it? In any case, please remember to always sign your comments by typing ~ four times. Elijya 20:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Because I forgot how to spell it now about those dragons. Jamhaw 20:50, 12 May 2006 (UTC)jamhaw
Whhoa it worked I'll start signing things now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jamhaw (talk • contribs) .
the neutral dragons were they actually planning on having them? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jamhaw (talk • contribs) .

[edit] New Trilogy

They already have a book where they get the hammer of Kharas it came out years ago! Jamhaw 20:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)jamhaw

Are you sure? The book Dragons of Dwarven Depths is coming out soon, and it supposedly deals with the recovery of the Hammer of Kharas. ddcc 04:01, 14 May 2006 (UTC)
Actually, the information about the recovery of the Hammer of Kharas is found in a Dragonlance sourcebook. It has some years already. -- ReyBrujo 02:18, 15 May 2006 (UTC)
Nope I'm tawking about a full blown novel it had a couple of no name characters and Tanis etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.174.135.175 (talk • contribs) .
By the way by noname i am talking about Non Recuring characters it has a red bearded guy on the cover at least the new one and it has been rerealeased last year I think. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jamhaw (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Wikiproject Dragonlance

I believe there are enough active Dragonlance editors to create a Wikiproject Dragonlance. However, I would like first checking who may be interested in joining. A Wikiproject would set some common rules for article formatting, and would better organize the articles (by setting naming conventions, determining notability for characters, expand articles, etc.) Suggestions? -- ReyBrujo 02:44, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd join if such a thing were to be created, but I'm also okay with just using this article as a "mainpage" for organizing any Dragonlance-related stuff... either way. --Maelwys 19:53, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I'd also be interested, but since I have school I would be mostly editing during the weekends with some editing during the weekday. However, since summer vacation is soon (3days), I could work on it all summer. ddcc 05:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that the talk page refers only to the article, so it is not really proper to discuss in this page stuff to be done in others. The other problem is that we are too few currently to maintain a good Wikiproject. Maybe in the future. -- ReyBrujo 00:49, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
I'd be on board. DoomsDay349 00:33, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I would suggest you bring this sort of thing up on the Dragonlance Mailing List and or Wizards COMmunity board for Dragonlance. I'd be willing to help look at articles about Krynnspace (the Spelljammer crystal sphere built around Krynn, for anyone who doesn't know). Big Mac 18:53, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Count me in! Well,I alone may not be much,but at least I can help...what are the rules anyway?dark matter 12:54, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Character infobox

I have created a Template:DL character template to add information about Dragonlance characters in their articles. If you have ideas, please discuss them in the template talk page. -- ReyBrujo 18:31, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recommended Reading Order

I know this is a debatable topic, but as a fan of the series, I was wondering if anyone could create a recommended reading list, as far as historical purposes are concerned. I want to read the series, without worrying that some major event explained in book X should have been read after reading about said major event in book Y. Darkness Productions 16:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

The main problem with such list is that "recommended" is determined by the reader's taste. In example, we all know that, to understand the books, you should begin with Chronicles, then Legends, then maybe The Second Generation and finally Dragons of Summer Flame. However, other than that, it is debatable. I suggest trying to find an "official" reading order, or a suggested order by the authors. -- ReyBrujo 16:49, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
This site [1] has a reading order that could be considered official because it is on the site of the publishers. To get to the list, you have to click on the box that says "start here". The page also has info on the books. Perhaps a link to this page could be used for the suggested reading list? DoomsDay349 02:56, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Does this list contain 'all' of the books in the series, or just all of them in the 'main' reading line? Darkness Productions 16:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
All of the books. -- ReyBrujo 16:25, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
A new thought... the list at DL nexus is very good, very thourough...you can find it here[2]. I think it could be used along with the wizards.com list. I did, however, have one question about the DL nexus list that maybe someone could address... when the list says read the Age of Mortals supplements, does it mean read all of them? Because there's like 24 in there, and I don't think that the whole thing is neccessary...much as you can read to the classic core novels, Chronicles and Legends, and then go on without reading anything else in the classics. DoomsDay349 18:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Book List Section

A quick note to whoever updates that section... you don't have to link the same exact thing multiple times. In addition, the links go to non-existent pages, however the pages exist under different names. This could confuse some because they might make a page that already exists under this new name. It's alright, I'll fix it, but just keep it in mind. DoomsDay349 16:14, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of DL stubs that need attention

I don't understand why it was removed from here and I also don't understand the edit summary given to it. Someone clarify? DoomsDay349 20:39, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I would just put it back up and see if it gets removed again, if so, message him on his talk page. ddcc 01:15, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually, is there any reason to have it there? This article is about Dragonlance, the trademark and the games and books we can buy anywhere, not about the articles that need maintenance. That link would fit better a WikProject Dragonlance page. To give you an example, it is like adding, to the Election page, a link to the ArbCom elections. -- ReyBrujo 02:39, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dragonlance Nexus and its role saving Dragonlance

Dragonlance Nexus is listed as being unofficial in the links page, but according to the Wizard of the Coast community boards page it is still the offical Dragonlance website (maybe WotC don't update their own links much).

Either way, I believe that Wizards of the Coast originally decided to abandon Dragonlance. Apparantly it was only the dedication of people on the DL mailing list followed by the people running Dragonlance Nexus that brought it back from the dead. I believe that the authors of Dragonlance worked closely with the fan community.

I think that the low point in the history of the Campaign Setting should be touched on in the 'History' section of this article. And if Dragonlance Nexus and the Dragonlance Mailing list helped get this setting back into print, they should be mentioned as well. I would edit this myself, but I don't have enough background knowledge to make sure the thing gets done properly. (I know this is touched on in the Dragonlance Nexus article, but people might not bother to read that unless it is mentioned here.)

Big Mac 19:12, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, from what I understand, Dragons of Summer Flame was the end of the series, thus it is not as much as WotC abandoned it as it had already finished. -- ReyBrujo 22:12, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dragonlance Movie in progress

Probably should get an article, huh? --Masamage 07:57, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

More information. -- ReyBrujo 15:55, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

It states that Keifer Sutherland has the lead role as Raistlin Majere, but is Raist considered the LEAD role? (or would that be Tanis?) Just wondering if it could be worded as "Keifer Sutherland Headlines the cast as Raistlin" or some such? (or am i just quibbling?) -TheActorAPB —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.42.116.70 (talk • contribs) .

Well, we won't know until we read the reviews of the movie. It is not uncommon for one of the secondary characters to become protagonism based on fan response (Raistlin, Drizzt, etc). -- ReyBrujo 23:10, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Categorization problem

The 'Dragonlance' category is contained in the 'series of books' category. This latter also contains a category called 'series of fantasy books', which in turn contains 'Dragonlance novels'. Uh oh! --Masamage 18:33, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, wait, 'Dragonlance novels' are also in the 'Dragonlance' category. It still seems silly that 'Dragonlance' isn't inside the fantasy section, though. --Masamage 18:35, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk:List of Dragonlance novels: Remaking list

Since no one has replied, I'm copying it to here: Shouldn't the items in the list be changed in to the {{cite book}} format so that it looks better, and that if blocks of refrences need to be added to an article, they can just be copied from here? ddcc 00:50, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a decent idea to me --Soulforge19 22:33, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Post-Apocalyptic feel?

I'm not sure if I agree with the statement that Dragonlance is supposed to have a post-apocalyptic feel. Is this something the authors said? I'm just not seeing it, not even in the original books. To me, "post-apocalytpic" is something more akin to "The Day After" or "Threads" or the "Mad Max" movies. Even "Blade Runner". Many of the stories take place after an apocalyptic event, true, but Krynn quickly bounces back and repopulates. I think it's just the wrong term for describing the books. Am I alone in this? --Soulforge19 18:02, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I never liked it. -- ReyBrujo 18:15, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
So who put it there? ddcc 00:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I can see what they meant, at least in the first book. I read that as a reference to how everyone is still miserable about the Cataclysm. It's definitely a misleading phrase, but in good faith, I think. --Masamage 16:01, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Indeed, I think it was added by an anonymous, a lot of time ago, and I think I left it there because it made sense. However, by now I understand a source is needed for that, otherwise it is pure speculation. -- ReyBrujo 17:21, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Removed it. ddcc 14:47, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
I think it should have stayed. A common theme in heroic literature and definitely fits these books. Agrippina Minor 00:05, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Says who? --Pak21 08:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Dragonlance setting up

Even though we are not many editors, we have advanced quite a lot. When I started here, there were few articles (every Hero of the Lance, including some copyvios, every deity, and some articles like this one and the Night Sky of Krynn). Nowadays we have over 100 articles, advancing every day. For that, I want to thank everyone!

At this size, however, we can't just keep going in a synchronized way by discussing only here. User:ReyBrujo/Base/Dragonlance was useful as a quick index for knowing which articles do exist and some tasks to be done, but we can't discuss in depth changes that may affect a number of articles (in example, novel layout, character article format, requests for new articles and templates, etc). Thus, I have created the Wikipedia:WikiProject Dragonlance, where all these discussions will (hopefully) be centralized. A WikiProject, along with a Portal, are the two best ways of getting new members to help us with our tasks.

Note that the WikiProject hasn't "launched" yet (it is not linked from the parent WikiProjects), as it is just setting up. I have written some information, but the page is still lacking a lot of important information. You can visit other WikiProjects to get some ideas about which sections we should add. If this goes well, we should be able to keep a better communication between all us! -- ReyBrujo 04:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

How exciting! :D I don't know how much time I'll have to participate, but I'm tickled that a project has started for this. I'll definately hang around. (And, of course, let me know if you have any Project-running questions. ^^ Though really it isn't too hard.) --Masamage 18:13, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Great job, and thanks a lot for starting it! DoomsDay349 20:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent vandalism

No need to propose a lock; it was by one person. I've reported them to the admins. --Masamage 16:28, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

If it were two people, we might have cause for worry. No worries here, though, it was a moronic IP trying to be funny...incidentally, those edits make me want to puke. If this continues, and from another IP, then we might have to try to protect...but I hope it won't come to that. DoomsDay349 20:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lede

Isn't it a little odd that the creator(s) of the series is(are) not mentioned in opening paragraph? Themindset 00:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, rather. --Masamage 01:34, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Critical reception

can we add something about the critical reception the series has had? maybe some reviews? Magic Pickle 16:54, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Original Dragonlance Logo

Does anyone know how to get a picture of the original Dragonlance logo? The one on the older, 1st edition Dragonlance books. Before the covers got all fancy :). It would be good for the article. DoomsDay349 05:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

this? I can crop and etc. Ddcc 05:10, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Yeah; that would be good. Have at it! DoomsDay349 05:13, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Image:Dragonlance-Logo-Orig.gif. Ddcc 21:22, 7 January 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Lead Fixing

The lead doesn't quite explain Dragonlance well enough. I think perhaps a rewrite of it is in order, but to what I am not sure. I like:

Dragonlance is a large series of fantasy novels, with over 100 novels printed. It was originally created by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman. Hickman and his wife created the basic idea while driving in their car on the way to TSR for Hickman to take a job. At TSR, he met his future partner Margaret Weis, and they gathered a group of associates to play a Dungeons & Dragons tabletop roleplaying game. The adventures of that game became Dragons of Autumn Twilight, and that novel was the first in the Chronicles Trilogy, the core novels of Dragonlance. Dragonlance has such unique creatures as kender and draconians. The majority of the novels take place in the various regions of Ansalon, a small continent, though some have taken place on the lesser known continent of Taladas, north of Ansalon.

That lead look good? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DoomsDay349 (talk • contribs) 18:26, 7 January 2007 (UTC).

Looks alright. Maybe not so much summary on life of Hickman & Weis, just straight that originally created by then. then created during D&D tabletop roleplay. Has unique creatures, not "such" unique (NPOV!). Ddcc 21:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
I took out the "unique creatures" sentence and posted as is. The bit about Tracy Hickman in the car with his wife is interesting and essential, IMO. DoomsDay349 22:01, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Being relatively ignorant of the whole series and only having played Dugeons and Dragons once or twice many moons ago, I would suggest you rethink the lead. You jump right into the genesis of the idea and make assumptions that your reader knows more about the subject than they might. For example, I looked up TSR in Wikipedia and was able to guess which of the disambiguated articles applies. And the story of its invention belongs lower after we know a bit more what they discovered (maybe even in a section of its own below). What is the series about? From the lead, I don't know. (John User:Jwy talk) 00:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I am concerned that this article describes dragonlance in the first scentence as "a large series of fantasy novels". While I agree that the novels have become the largest and most important part of the setting there is much more to Dragonlance beyond this. From what I can see the first published Dragonlance item was actually a D&D game module (in March 84), which is before the first novel had been published. (Though a short story by Margret Weis was published in Dragon magazine the same month) New game material continues to be published to this day. - Waza 23:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

This is very true. I'll update it, but remember that whereas one might consider Forgotten Realms to be a gaming with a novel supplement, whereas Dragonlance is a novel series with a gaming supplement. DoomsDay349 20:11, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes I agree that is what it has become, in the case of Dragonlance the novels have become the primary thing, but the idea did actually begin as a game, and the game is still a part of it to this day. - Waza 11:06, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Very much so. I'm very involved in the fan community, and I know a great deal of people who have bought sourcebooks and even the Age of Mortals adventures just for novel enhancement. DoomsDay349 18:17, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal to merge Dragonlance timeline into this article

Today I noticed that someone had nominated the Dragonlance timeline article for deletion within 5 days. I disagree with that, but think that the article needs major attention to remain on Wikipedia. This article fails to properly explain the history of the Dragonlance Saga and I think that the content of the timeline article needs to be cleaned up an incorporated into this one in order for readers to be able to understand the fictional history of Krynn.

I'd like to see the article kept, but merged into this one and cut down in size. But for the moment, I'd like to see it saved from deletion to allow people time to fix the problems. If you want to see the Dragonlance timeline saved from deletion so that it can be fixed and merged into this one then please visit its proposed deletion page.Big Mac 04:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Ahem*. Votestacking much? (I've seen all your other messages too.) I'm not gonna post a no spam message, but consider your wording carefully. DoomsDay349 04:46, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure merging a gigantic timeline into a small article on Dragonlance is going to help the article. I would rather see it left alone and clean up. Ddcc 06:15, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Dragonlance-Logo.jpg

Image:Dragonlance-Logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 03:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Problem solved. DoomsDay349 05:30, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 5th Age?

Since we've got content on the 4th Age, do we need to expand to 5th Age? Ddcc 17:57, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that was my original intent. I just never got around to it. DoomsDay349 18:04, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
I can tell you that Fifth Age, the books and the SAGA game system, were released for Gen Con 1996. That's why I was asked to play Raistlin for the unveiling. MikeSims (talk) 04:50, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Doesn't make sense

I get the impression this is the result of two seperate edits which don't fit together properly.

"It was originally created by Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman while driving in their car on the way to TSR, Inc. for a job application. At TSR, he met his future partner Margaret Weis"

This doesn't seem to make sense - did she meet him at TSR, or was she in his car on the way there? Ben —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.156.4.52 (talk • contribs).

True, Laura and Tracy Hickman planned that in the car, Margaret was not there when the original idea came. -- ReyBrujo 01:37, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Books

until Time of the Twins, almost all novels were set before the Chronicles trilogy, often in ancient history

Considering that Chronicles were the very first books out, how does that work? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.184.241.144 (talk • contribs)

The Chronicles were the first books to be written, but they were set at a certain, specific point in Krynnish history. Many of the later books take place at points in history before the War of the Lance--that is, they're prequels. --Masamage ♫ 05:31, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Except, what books came out between Chronicles and Legends? According to what I remember (verified by what's listed on the List of Dragonlance novels page), none of the preludes or other trilogies came out until AFTER the Legends. So what books is this referring to? --Maelwys (talk) 15:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
...Huh, looks like you're right. In that case, I have no idea. --Masamage ♫ 00:39, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Okay then, I've removed that sentence as being completely nonsensical. --Maelwys (talk) 01:11, 17 December 2007 (UTC)