Talk:Dragon Ball (manga)/Archive 1

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Archive 1
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Contents

Update on censorship

Viz no longer publishes uncensored Dragon Ball manga. For example in Dragon Ball volume 9 Bulma's breasts are now covered up with a bra. If you have noticed any changes in the "new" editions of Dragon Ball volumes 1 - 3, which had quite a lot of nudity, please update the page.

  • With regards that section, I reworded it as some of the terminology (technically uncensored?? It either is or it isn't) and grammar used was pretty shoddy. ShizuokaSensei 01:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

In volume 1 Bulma's breast and butt are coverd with bubbles when Yumcha looks in the shower.Mr.Rachel 19:33, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I would also like to note that the only nudity censored is female nudity. Goku is left uncensored, his child private areas included. Rather a double-standard. I would rather Goku's male anatomy be censored if they're going to censor Bulma's female anatomy.

I concure on that. does anybody have a link for the uncensored footage of bulma? i have the first manga and it shows her nude but i cant find 2 and 3. also whats the hold up on the anime being released uncensored?wrestlinglover420 19:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh man, I realized that the two volumes I have of Dragon Ball are censored. :( Are the first editions from 2000 edited? And what are some of the edits for volume two of the DB manga? (Looking for edits in the Shonen Jump Graphic Novel edition) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.46.54.232 (talk • contribs).

Other Notes

I don't know anything about the Dragon Ball Manga, however I was under the impression that they only dealt with Goku as a child and not the later experiences in Dragon Ball Z. Could someone shed some light on this, or edit the document accordingly? Perhaps we should have Dragon Ball Manga and Dragon Ball? (Anime) Agent Confused Smith. —the preceding comment is by Agent Smith - 16:17, 3 July 2003: Please sign your posts!

The manga series contains all the adventures that were show in the anime series Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, except those parts which were "filler" or original stories created by the anime writers. The anime series Dragon Ball GT, on the other hand, was entirely the work of the anime writers, with little or no involvement from Akira Toriyama. In America the earlier volumes of manga is sold as "Dragon Ball", and the later volumes as "Dragon Ball Z" in order to achieve marketing synergy with the anime, but in Japan, the manga is not separated this way. In any case, Dragon Ball GT is the only part of the anime to be a completely orginal creation, with no episodes at all drawn from Toriyama's manga. Dragon Ball Z has some fillers, but they are designed to mesh with the manga storyline. Hope that helps. Soluzar 23:25, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
They should have the Dragonball Manga and Dragon Ball Anime definitions. Also, having only Bardock, Goku, and Vegeta as characters is misleading. Besides, Bardock only has a very, very, very small part in Dragonball. The only time you see him is in a flashback. And yes, the manga version is only 1(one) word. At least that is what I remember. -Drake "Riot" Aldan —the preceding comment is by 68.96.171.49 - 03:29, 5 February 2004: Please sign your posts!

Opinion

Hi, think this linked article should be nuked: Dragon Ball Powerlevels. For obvious reasons. —the preceding comment is by 69.212.106.44 - 20:29, 28 March 2004: Please sign your posts!

Did a bit of a rewrite to clarify some points-- it may need cleaned. If you really don't like it, you can revert. The section on the meaning of "Z" may belong in one of the anime articles. I personally think that more of the anime articles should be fleshed into the manga article, except in cases where the manga and the anime conflict. This is a doctrine of first source-- you wouldn't expect to look in the "Spiderman (Movie)" article for spiderman (from the comic) source material; you'd probably be looking for information specific to the movie adaptation.
Still, the animes are the format that US readers were introduced to first so some leeway is probably preferred. —the preceding comment is by Jrp - 01:37, 20 June 2004: Please sign your posts!

Could use some help with naming an article

This is the best place I found for this: In spring 2003, an esteemed Finnish psychologist by the name of Raisa Cacciatore accused the Dragon Ball manga series, the first albums of which are circa PG-13, of containing pedophilia. Those who had actually read them dismissed the allegation as absurd, but it managed to whip up a media panic and the comic was hounded out of the country. And now I wish to write an article about it, but being a non-native speaker naming isn't my forté and I know I have a tendency to be incomprehensible at times, so could I get some suggestions at to what I should call it? -- Kizor 08:53, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Under a header == Controversy == in the Dragon ball article? Anárion 11:48, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Most likely this isn't significant enough to warrant a mention in the main article. Dragon Ball's extremely big, and this farce only affected one country which didn't have a significant readership. The comic even returned next January, with a low profile. -- Kizor 17:46, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Why not write an article about Raisa Cacciatore himself, which would naturally focus on his accusations against the series? Jwrosenzweig 19:10, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Because she's done a lot of other work that's held in high regard. That'd be quite unfair. -- Kizor 23:31, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Note that there was a similar scare in the US, though not quite as bad and with a happy ending. I have heard-- though I do not know for sure-- that the first graphic novel release of Dragon Ball was recalled for containing nudity. It was subsequently republished censored HOWEVER there was a fan outcry and they released the series AGAIN with the censorship removed and a "13+" label instead. I can vouch that there was the rerelease, but I don't know if there was a recall initially or not.
Here specifically is the content that might have incited the panic, all from the first book: (Subsequent books have considerably less and most have none.)
  • An instance of a male character (Goku) nude while fishing (with his tail!) and swimming.
  • A female character (Bulma) offering to show the male character her panties if he gives her his dragonball.
  • Bulma peeing herself because she's trapped on the side of a cliff after being dropped by a flying dinosaur.
  • Goku being given a bath by Bulma (and being nude) because he's never had one before.
  • Bulma taking a bath herself. (nothing visible)
  • Bulma sleeping with her panties visible. Goku notices, lays down on her. Confused, he takes her panties off and screams because she lost her balls. (done for comic effect, no nudity shown)
  • Bulma showing another older man (Master Roshi) her panties in exchange for a dragonball. Except she didn't notice that she wasn't wearing any. (played for comic effect, no nudity)
  • Another male character (Yamcha) seeing Bulma naked in the shower by accident. He panics and flees. (frontal nudity)
There's definately a list of things parents could be concerned about. The characters are all pretty young. Bulma is 16. Goku says he's 14, but that's only because he can't count. He's actually closer to 10-12 at this point. However this is as much a cultural difference as any: none of the scenes are "sexual" and all the characters are very innocent. At this point, Dragon Ball is a *humor* comic and this kind of thing is very funny in Japan.
I don't know if this helps you in any way, but it does provide some background on why someone might have had such a panic.. but I'l also not sure where to put it. JRP 00:08, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Naming

Note that Google indicates that "Dragonball" (one word) is the more common spelling on the internet. However, "Dragon Ball" (with a space) is the official title both for the English manga and anime. I'd really hate to have to change the spacing everywhere... I vote that we keep it with the space. JRP 01:41, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The correct one is "Dragonball", without the space. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.50.166.249 (talk • contribs) .

Naming Conventions

Here is a quick table (which we may add to as we go along) with the names chosen for each DB name choice: what the anime and manga differences are, and what name wins the Google test. This is not a suggestion that we rename existing articles to match without discussion, but it does get us on the table an idea how things are laid out to help us make better decisions.

Anime Name Manga Name Google Wikipedia Notes
Dragon Ball Dragon Ball Dragonball Dragon Ball Even though the internet perfers the "one word" form, in this case I feel that we should follow the commercial consensus as the official spelling. JRP 23:38, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Goku Son Goku Goku Son Goku (Dragon Ball) Should use full name instead of substring.
Bulma Bulma Bulma Bulma Full name in series is implied to be "Bulma Briefs", but never stated explicitly.
Puar Pu'ar Puar Puar
Freiza Freeza Frieza Freeza Currently use minority (manga) spelling.
Bardock Burdock Bardock Bardock
?? Chi-Chi ChiChi Chi-Chi Currently use minority spelling. Need to verify anime spelling.

Names without controversy: Oolong, Yamcha —the preceding comment is by Jrp - 20:38, 9 August 2004: Please sign your posts!

Merge Android (Dragon Ball) ??

I found Android (Dragon Ball) randomly. It doesn't seem to be linked from here and seems short and a bit abandoned. Would it not be more happy merged into the main article? I know nothing about Dragon Ball, so I'm not really able to judge myself. Could we in any case have "this is an article about a television series" introductions on each please? Mozzerati 20:42, 2005 Apr 2 (UTC)

Dragon Ball page that needs clean up

Oceanus Shenron needs a big clean up, thanks--nixie 05:34, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

More Double-Meaning Names

What about Piccolo, Piano, Tambourine, Drum, and Flute? Shouldn't they be included on the roll-call of bad puns? Brutannica 00:13, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Dragon Ball AF

For the record, I think this old issue needs to be laid to rest, especially seeing as how it was already brought up on the "article" side of this entry. I was told once that it was a hoax and that "AF" stood for "April Fools"... I have no idea whether or not this actually true, but it does seem plausible. Any additional infomation on this matter would be helpful. Also, I was downloaded a file with that name from eMule, but it turned out to be nothing more than an episode of Gundam--this is probably useless data, but you never know. Sweetfreek 06:13, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It's just an April Fool. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.50.166.249 (talk • contribs) .

External link section too large

Someone should trim the list of external links. Long lists of external links are invitations for link spammers to add theirs as well. Also, there's is little point in having link in foreign languages (Italian, Japanese) if we have so many in English already. Rl 06:29, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Since nobody seemed to have done that before, I will now. -- ReyBrujo 07:25, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Done. Remember, Wikipedia is not a link repository. -- ReyBrujo 07:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Suggested Improvements

I really think the Dragonball article shouldn't have Dragonball Z stuff except for a link. The Dragonball manga and anime are very different especially the movies. Also I really wish the article would do a better job of summarizing the manga. Due to Funimation starting with the Namek saga or the Sayajin saga I think a lot of people are out of whack when it comes to Dragonball as opposed to Japanese fans that experinced Dragonball chornologically as it was meant to be. Maybye a volume by volume summary? I just feel that everytime I read something about Dragonball on the internet it sounds very weird. —the preceding comment is by 67.150.208.208 - 03:05, 2 July 2005: Please sign your posts!

Manga vs Anime

Should stuff only seen in the anime be in the Dragonball manga article when it could be put in the Dragonball Z article? Also I disagree with some parts of the Redemption section. Buu wasn't converted to good, he was destroyed and brought back evil. Also I don't think redemption plays a big role in Dragonball besides maybye Piccolo. It was more of two enemies facing a mutal stronger enemy than redemption. —the preceding comment is by Usni - 06:33, 25 July 2005: Please sign your posts!

Android 8

Thought you guys might like to know that someone created Android 8. its beyond my area of expertise so i thought u guys might be interested in cleaning it up. -- Bubbachuck 07:03, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Some answers

Just a passer-by on this page but wanted to clarify a couple of points (since I've started reading the manga since it first came out and has collected every single manga and animation).

The manga does not just deal with Goku as a child (as suggested by one of the postings above), but deals with Dragon Ball Z as well all the way to the end of the Majin Buu saga.

Dragonball GT is the last of the series, and any rumours from the internet about AF or other series are false and do not exist - only as fanfiction or doujinshi.

Android 8 appeared early in the manga series, created by the Red Ribbon army. He's in the figure of Frankenstein, and was used by the ninja in the hope that it (he?) would help to defeat Goku. However, Android 8 hated violence and instead stood on Goku's side. When Goku was shot by Captain White, it (he?) got angry and give Captain White a fierce punch.

by DrTintin —the preceding comment is by 62.6.139.11 - 01:53, 15 September 2005: Please sign your posts!

Chi/Qi/Ki

It might deserve it's own page in wikipedia... But... There ought be any and all data on the chi's of characters (next to a list of their name and the race they belong to) —the preceding comment is by 200.60.26.222 - 23:16, 9 October 2005: Please sign your posts!

I agree with you on this, it might be useful to have an article that gives a good amount of information, based on what is talked about in the show, on Ki the article, as you point out, would be well with in topic by listing the characters basic estimated power levels in spreadsheet form -Evirus 69.14.33.214 06:43, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Some comments

You didn't even read my comment, I have family overseas. It's not from 2002, I know all of toriyama's work by the dates, and I know about that add from 2002, that was for his new children's book toccio the angel, and I know about neko majin z, so what are you talking about?


The stuff I am talking about was not released to the general public, and gt was bought after its 64 episode run on Fuji tv, Toei sold gt after that, and another company continued gt non-publically until 2000, so gt is really from 1995-2000, not 1996-1997, remember, Toei's gt aired a week after z ended.

The GT that was bought after episode 64 never aired, nor did the z ultimate series. released straight to tape to a certain audience. NO MORE WILL BE PRODUCED DUE TO LOW DEMAND IN THE HOME COUNTRY.

Then after that in the YEAR 2000, a 4th series was made called dbz ultimate. Look at the freakin dates.

project-x is the name of the company, that is all I know. It has something to do with NHK, and that interview with toriyama already took place, but nobody has uploaded it? why? I will tell you why, info. Sure, we have the rights to the first 3 series, who said we were going to get it all? Who said they have to tell us everything they are doing? Get real. This way, it will be more respected.


cousin found that on a website.

  ssj5 (1997-2000 年) のDragonball GT のエピソード594 、及びDragonball z ultimate(2000-present) ssj9 佐藤の空との第4 シリーズ。 それはToriyama のdiscernment のnon-public 解放である、あるが確実な、決して乾燥されて、持っていない。

If you can read it, tell me what the kanji says.


One more thing, stop copying and pasting other people's entries, julian and mike did that, and people shove that in my face, but the stuff I am talking about i have already seen but don't own, so I am like S.T.F.U, excuse my french.

2-5-06

I laughed. --The Magistratus 10:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

What the..... WHY those this person keep coming to this site with such mess as this. Since I am tired of commenting on thes bullcrap I will give you a quote from the guys at www.daizex.com. People that research and studies Dragon Ball with offical resourses.

"There are two possible causes that this rumor stemmed from. The first one is early advertisements for the DB kanzenban manga re-release. These ads were extremely vague, noting that there would be something new and DB-related from Akira Toriyama. If you take a look at the image here(got to the site and see what image they are talking about.), you can see how easily it could have been mistaken for a new series. In particular, there's a line in the bottom left, which reads, "At the end of 2002, the masterpiece will be revived / reborn!!" (NOTE: For a full-sized version of the advertisement, you can click the image on the right)(again go to the site and see.). The ambiguity of the word "fukkatsu" (which can mean either "rebirth" or "revival") sparked tons of speculation, between September and November of 2002, that Toriyama would be writing new DB stories. What actually came to be released, however, were condensed versions of the original manga, with new cover art drawn by him; nothing more (ads from November 2002 and later were much more specific, and clear that there would be no new chapters). There is also the Neko Majin manga that Toriyama has been putting out every so often, five chapters of which (Neko Majin Z - NMZ 5) are DragonBall parodies. Don't get us wrong; the most recent chapter has revealed that Kuriza is Freeza's "son" (he even appears as a playable bonus character in the Japanese version of Budokai 2), and Vegeta makes a (halfhearted) guest appearance as well. However, the presence a cat who does the "Nekohameha," as well as the lack of a real plot (aside from getting in some self-referential jokes), should give it away as nothing more than a gag, and not (as some fans would have it) a continuation of the DB story. As much as we may want it to exist in the Dragon World... sorry!"

Please read this add figure out what Akira Toriyama manga you looking at mister new DB manga.If any new DB manga or anime were to exist, as it has been rumored for so many years, why has nothing surfaced? These days, one would definitely expect to see ALL of the following: • screen shots / movie clips from episodes • articles / reviews from Japan • advertising (such as in Weekly Shônen Jump) • merchandise (books, soundtracks, etc.) • downloadable fansubs ("digisubs") ...and yet, none of these things exist for the supposed "new series." Honestly, why would Toei or Mr. Toriyama want to hide something like this from the fans, and if there was something reported in Japan about a new series it would be BIG news of it. Nevertheless, If a series of new DB came out I’d be excited as the next fan about any new DB coming out of Japan or arould the world. But the fact of the matter is that there isn't, and probably won't be, anything new. It's really just common sense; DB is over, and will most likely stay that way. So stop writing about this "new manga or series" that does not exist other that fan base mangas.

Heat P 12:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Dragon Ball images

I have created a category for Dragon Ball images. Whenever you upload a new Dragon Ball image, please add [[Category:Dragon Ball images]] in the image page. You can check all the tagged images by checking the category itself. -- ReyBrujo 16:12, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Chronology of Events

Some of the related DB/DBZ articles have years in them (e.g. Pan), indicating a timeline of events established by a daizenshū somewhere. As it stands right now these dates have no context in the sense that nowhere on Wikipedia does anyone explain the chronology of the Dragon Ball "universe." as they do for Star Wars (just look at Dates in Star Wars).

I have no idea if these dates are truly considered canon or not, but somehow we need to figure that out and decide whether or not to refer to them. As someone who's been reading/watching DB for years, I find these dates completely confusing so I can only imagine how random they must seem to a casual observer.

My initial opinion is that we should not use any dates in DB articles because they are unnecessary. It's a fantasy setting where dinosaurs still live yet humans have advanced technology, nevermind the talking animals! The daizenshū chronology would seem to place all that in the eighth century? --Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 08:33, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, they're not canon. I don't think any dates are referred to anywhere in the series, except for calendar months and days. That said, there are others who can say that for sure.
The bigger problem is reliability of information. Even if some of them are cited by the daizenshu, which I think they are, the sources that we have in the US for those are very few and far between. It's going to be impossible for editors to know whether a date is "real" (appeared in the daizenshu text) or whether it's fancruft thrice removed taken from a "I LUV GOKUH!!" page somewhere.
If we decide to keep them, I agree that someone should do a chronology page and link all dates in DB articles to that page. JRP 14:05, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
If they're not canon then why should we bother? I don't think knowing how old these characters are supposed to be enhances their appeal.--Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 05:52, 25 February 2006 (UTC)


If anything, if these articles do use dates they should be standardized much like how ours is (BC/AD for example) after that its just a matter of picking the event to start with, would it be Kami comming to earth? Bibidi's attack on the kai's?... and adding years from that point to come up with the dates -Evirus 69.14.33.214 06:50, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Peer review alert!

Attention Dragon Ball experts; Son Goten, an article that is closely related to this article is being Peer Reviewed. Please help out with the peer review by giving your opinions, statements, and most importantly; voice at the review. The peer review's page can be found here. Don't forget to spread the word! SGFF 01:56, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Once Defeated

I'd be worth mentioning how most characters with fighting abilities represent an equal (yamcha, krillin, yajirobe) or superior (piccolo, tenshinhan, tao pai pai, roshi, kamisama, karin, vegeta, freeza, cell) but once they are defeated, they get progresively behind goku.

Take Tehshinhan and Chaozu as the best examples. Chaozu was way stronger than Krillin, he even had mental powers, Krilling only defeated using tricks, but after that, Chaozu became considered the weakest of the fighters. Same with Ten Shin Han. He even defeated goku, but as piccolo arrived he started getting behind until he is ridicoluosly weak in boo's saga.--201.114.96.112 01:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you, dont know if this is worth mentioning in the article, but from my point of view, those characters get "behind" Goku because they reach their full potential. Goku's (saiyan) potential might be higher than Ten's (human i guess). Most characters that fall behind are humans, as you mentioned "yamcha, krillin, yajirobe". All characters that grow stronger are aliens, who might have a further "power level" potential than them, say Piccolo, Vegeta, Goku, and their offsprings. 190.48.214.73 04:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC) Mpicco

It should also be pointed out that the mentioned characters are far behind Goku could simply be because of Goku's love of fighting, and desire to be the strongest he could be. Throughout the Dragon Ball series, Goku has always been exploring and meeting stronger opponents than last met to discover and improve his fighting skills, while his friends and comtemporaries tend to be satisfied in the environment their in, particularly Kuririn. Because Goku loves exploration and fighting, the relative comparison in strength to his friends continue to increase. In one episode in the Cell Games Saga, Kuririn lamented this. In fact, the only one who has come anywhere close to being on Goku's terms is Vegeta, and the manga series Uub. I even personally think had DBGT not been taken in the direction it was (or simply not created at all) Uub would have been Goku's other rival. Allow me to clarify a few things: Fist of all, Muten Roshi, Karin, Kami-sama, are Goku's trainers so they train Goku to the best that they know, meaning they can't improve. Again on Muten Roshi, he was at equal terms with Goku, and NARROWLY won the 21st Tenka'ichi Budokai as Jackie Chun. Also Tenshinhan only beat Goku by pure luck in the 22nd Tenka'ichi Budokai. He was knocked out by Goku in air, but Goku landed first by smashing into a truck, with Tenshinhan landing slightly later. Tenshinhan's relative strength in the Buu Saga is weaker (Note the words: relative and weaker) Also, Chaozu and Krillin were on near even terms in their first meeting, though Chaozu was slighty stronger and had the advantage of levitation and telekinesis. Yamcha was never Goku's equal upon meeting him, which is why he was focused on grabbing his tail when he was an antagonist. The only incarnation of Piccolo that was ever stronger Goku was Piccolo Daimao. The second Piccolo which is more recognisable was more or less on even terms with Goku. Also the villains mentioned (Tao Pai Pai, Freeza, Cell) are megalomaniacs, thus are so satisfied with their own might they think as the greatest, thus bringing upon themselves their own defeat, which is more or less the theme of Dragon Ball. There's no limit to how well you can be, something that Goku continues to explore. Again, as Mpicco pointed out, Goku's Saiyan heritage plays a part in his increasing relative strength to his former rivals and adversaries. Just thought you should know. Uglyguy2006

Information bar

Most comic book-related articles have infobars, how come this article is missing it? Can someone isnstall one?--201.114.96.112 19:03, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Done. --Wirbelwind 21:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Great!! how did you do that?--201.114.96.112 18:40, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Just look at the code. --Wirbelwind 06:50, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

IMPORTANT!!!

hey, maybe you should include a list of all the volumes and chapter like in the one piece article. It would help a lot! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.68.252.174 (talk • contribs).

Whats the Deal?

Someone has butchered the amount of information on this page and other Dragonball related pages. Whats the point? Why not have more information? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 148.8.170.24 (talk • contribs).

Get's on my wiki

That is the problem with the wiki, that you can spend time on an article you know will be informative and useful to fans and researchers and the wikidiots will casually delete it. They would rather have a nice looking wiki full of bland stuff rather than something interesting. I know a number of very well informed people on various subjects who will not contribute to the wiki for that very reason. 07:50 6 April 2007.

An encyclopedia isn't a compilation of the pedantic details of every banal outgrowth of pop culture. Anime, and Dragonball in particular, just isn't important enough to merit more than a single paragraph in an encyclopedia. The problem on Wikipedia is that there are just so many 13 year olds who have no understanding of their cartoons' relative importance (that is, very little), but through their numbers they have substantial sway. Wikipedia isn't "A 13 Year Old Japanophile's Guide To All Things Anime", so please stop trying to corrupt it. If you need an Anime Encyclopedia so bad, consider using the one on Wikia. 142.161.64.87 03:42, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Your understanding of the Wiki is very miniscule. Dragon Ball is a cultural phenomenon, known throughout the world. By the way, your logic is extremely flawed. Your argument can only applies to elements in Dragon Ball (if it applies at all). Dragon Ball is a real-world subjet - it's not a fictional subject, it's a real subject with fictional elements. You may not like it, but the fact of the matter is that Dragon Ball is on the same level as King Lear - perhaps not in popularity or notability, but it exists just as much. - A Link to the Past (talk) 06:07, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Notable?

Unless anyone puts forth a convincing argument to keep it, I will delete this article in three days. 142.161.64.87 03:35, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Heh. Retlor 23:33, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hey, maybe you should include a list of all the volumes and chapter like in the one piece article. It would help a lot! 70.124.5.133 18:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

That isn't notable. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:08, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Majin buu Arc

I found this a fairly readable article, on the whole, and I know very little Dragonball-lore. There's a bit about characters leveling up during the final story arc, which uses vocabulary that has little meaning to a non-fan - I get the drift (the characters get stronger), but fail to see the significance. That bit could use some improvement, methinks! Recurring Themes is good bit, and such parts of the article are vital. 212.50.147.101 21:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


VIZ Big Editions

VIZ announced at Comic Con that they are releasing the big collective volumes and they will be released quarterly. I hope this series is released uncut. ryne11 21:15, 7 August 2007

Dragon ball fusion

I wonder where the article about Dragon ball fusion has gone. I have tried to find it but all links redirect to this site. --Hannu 13:51, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

It was redirected to the techniques page and that page was deleted--$UIT 04:02, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Dragonball Special Techniques

I too wonder if an article has gone... When I try to go to Dragonball Special Techniques *sigh* I just get redirected here. Frankly... it sucks, I would like to know why. I worked really really hard to make that page. The idea was to put all the crufty little mentions of special techniques from all of the db/z/gt in one place. Sure it would have been pure cruft, but it would have elevated all the charecter pages without argument. This saddens me. MysticGohan 18:29, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

You recreated a deleted page. If you really want it back, start a discussion at the project-_$UIT 04:00, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Wow. I didn't know the page was essentially old news. I guess I'll just move on. If I had known somebody already tried it I don't think I would have bothered... Thanks SUIT I uh guess. MysticGohan 18:29, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Sourcing and re-writing discussion

Alright, before this gets as out of hand as things in the DBZ article got I think it's time to get the ball rolling on some useful repairs to the page. The plot and evolution sections do not actually need sourcing as they are summaries of a story and thus source is implied. And the chapter sourcing throughout the evolution section is sufficent. A few notes in the plot section wouldn't hurt but it's not a priority so we'll proceed on.
Finding sources for the section about the relation to Journey ot the West shouldn't be too difficult either. I have a few places I can check a little later. (A quick check of the actual article for it shows it needs sourcing too, so we might be able to do both at once here.)
For the section on the editing in the NA releases of the manga, would not mentions of chapters and pages be sufficent sources? I don't have access to any of the manga myself to do this, however.
The relation to the anime section falls under common knowledge, no sourcing needed there either. I think the Influence on other series section should be removed completely or turned into a trivia section.
As for any re-writing I've not got the time currently to read through the article to see the quality of the writing so I'll leave that open to someoneelse's suggestion. What's everyone else think on this?Xyex (talk) 13:07, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

(Copied from what I wrote to Sesshomaru)- I did removed the analysis of the series' themes, as it was entirely original research. The rest just needs cleanup though. The Plot/Evolution sections, by nature of being plot info written in summary style, don't technically need sources. However, someone actually did insert sources of manga chapters, which are a viable first-party source. They didn't use the correct format, but that's an editorial thing we just need to tidy up.
The Journey to the West section- I'm certain we can find a source cuz it is common knowledge (actually common knowledge amongst those knowledgeable on the subject falls in with what doesnt need a source, but I'd still like to find one). There is mention in the Newbie Guide on Daizex of the origins (and the Nyoi-bo speciifically), which could go as a 3rd party source, specifically self-published. I know such are to be used sparingly, but there shouldn't be a problem in this case. I believe the Kintoun (Nimbus) is directly taken from the Chinese novel as well. So I'll dig around.
Editing of the North American version does have some sources in the form of comparable manga chapters for both versions. Again, the issue is just that the citation format is incorrect and needs some editing. This is a clean-up case, not a deletion of OR case.
Relation to the Anime shouldn't need a source neyond the shows themselves, except maybe a citation that Toriyama didn't do GT. Whether we decide to cite something or not, the section isn't in error and doesn't qualify as OR.
Influence section borders on OR, but I'm going to try to source it and expand it. I'm not sure if Super Sonic's mention should stay, we'll see if a source is on it. I did find an interview with Yuji Naka (http://sonicjam.wikidot.com/aii2005:dec30) where he says Toriayma never commented on Super Sonic. We could mention something like the Super Sonic article about it being widely beleived, but Yuji Naka has stated AT never commented on such. However, Yoshio Sawai (Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo) has done parody of Dragon Ball at least three times- one piece of DBZ art done in his style, one parody manga done for Shonen Jump's 2005 gag special (theres a download of this up on daizex actually), and at least once in parody in Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo. Masashi Kishimoto (Naruto) has named Toriyama and Dragon Ball as one of his major influences. Seishi Kishimoto (666 Satan/O-Parts Hunter) has stated he shares the same influences as his brother. Eiichiro Oda (One-Piece) has also said Toriyama's DB and Dr. Slump are his biggest influences, which in part lead to Cross Epoch as well as the collaborative video game Battle Stadium D.O.N. The South Park movie had a DBZ parody (Cartman powering up the V-Chip via swearing to fire blasts). I'm not a huge fan of the IMDB, but I do believe it is an allowable source and I know that last one at least is cited there under "Movie Connections" (at least until a better ref could be found). Mr. Fullswing parodies DB at least once, as does Excel Saga. I'm also checking to see if Shining Gundam's (Mobile Fighter G-Gundam) Super mode is DBZ based or not (more likely GaoGaiGar-inspired, but I'm checking). Robot Chicken had a Dragon Ball parody in the second season (I have to look up which episode, but its the one where they "save Christmas"). And of course, Toriyama's own Neko Majin parodies DBZ. Also, the DB Kanzenban volumes came with pamphlets containing DB-inspired images drawn by current famous manga artists in their own styles. So this section can easily be expanded and sourced. Onikage725 (talk) 20:56, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
The section Interpretations to Journey to the West should be deleted, it's just speculation at this point. Even if it is true, there are no sources confirming, the manga probably but it seems irrelevant to the article in question. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:47, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I liked Sesshomaru's short version. However, if everyone is adamant about keeping the old stuff, I suggest a compromise: keep the sections, but shorten them to the very most reliable and important information, e.g. cutting Interpretations to Journey to the West down to only the undeniable similarities, and remove redundant phrasing, e.g. "The equivalent to [...] of the original texts is [...] in Dragon Ball" could be changed to simply "[name] = [name] - [comment from reliable source]" or a table like this:
Journey to the West Dragon Ball similis [1]
Sun Wukong Son Goku monkey tail, riding a flying cloud, wielding an extendible magic staff
subplot borrowing the palm-leaf fan from the Gyu--Mao- to dowse the Flaming Mountains
I also suggest a rename to Dragon Ball (manga), with Dragon Ball becoming a disambiguation page with a short metaseries description at the top. Erudecorp ? * 03:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
That's actually a good idea. Dragon Ball should not be the title of only the manga, but a dab page. I can't understand this box though, I don't recall the monk searching for a wish-granting item. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I purged the weakest information from the box (above, not in the article yet). Putting it into a table really made the lacking spots stand out. Now I see that some sections are unkeepable, like the influences section which talks only of Super Sonic and Hyper Sonic. I can't find a Sega statement admitting the influence, but if I do, I might put it in the Super Sonic article, not here, and definitely not in its own whole section. I see you shrunk the manga image back into a thumb. I am also going to move the article now. It's protected. Erudecorp ? * 05:40, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
There was considerable vandalism earlier, looks like you'll have to request the move. The alledged critic who fought against the dark-skinned characters was Carole Weatherford. I really could not quite phrase it better than this. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
There's going to be (or perhaps there already was) a Dragon Ball vol. 1, limited edition. ISBN 1-59116-360-9. How should this be referenced in the article? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 07:45, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
ISBN 1-59116-360-9 WP:ISBN "ISBNs are not required of citations." Copy/paste this, put it into <ref> tags:
{{cite book |last=Toriyama |first=Akira |authorlink=Akira Toriyama |title=Dragon Ball |origyear=2003 |url= |format= |accessdate= |accessyear= |accessmonth= |edition=Trade Paperback (Limited Edition) |publisher=VIZ Media LLC |location=San Francisco |language=English |isbn=1-59116-360-9 |pages=192}} Erudecorp ? * 08:20, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
You're suggesting I do the same for all of them? Maybe have a page entitled List of Dragon Ball manga volumes. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) —Preceding comment was added at 02:59, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

Quotes from the above discussion on topic Requested move
I also suggest a rename to Dragon Ball (manga), with Dragon Ball becoming a disambiguation page with a short metaseries description at the top. Erudecorp ? * 03:14, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
That's actually a good idea. Dragon Ball should not be the title of only the manga, but a dab page. I can't understand this box though, I don't recall the monk searching for a wish-granting item. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I am also going to move the article now. It's protected. Erudecorp ? * 05:40, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
There was considerable vandalism earlier, looks like you'll have to request the move. The alledged critic who fought against the dark-skinned characters was Carole Weatherford. I really could not quite phrase it better than this. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 06:07, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

A short parent article linking to the subarticles on the manga and anime would be far better for disambiguation purposes (i.e., it would make sense if Dragon Ball (franchise) would move to this title). I'm hesitant to move this page without something having been proposed to put in its place - do you really want Dragon Ball (disambiguation) at the plain title? Dekimasuよ! 09:54, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:12, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I've moved the page, per the request and discussion here. I request that someone who knows more about the Dragon Ball franchise than I do go through the redirects here and point them to appropriate targets. I wasn't sure whether they should point to the manga, or to some other aspect of the Dragon Ball franchise. -GTBacchus(talk) 02:33, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:DB Tankōbon.png

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:52, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Tense in Evolution section

The tense in the Evolution section switches between past and present. Shouldn't it all be in the present tense? --- Krezos (talk) 14:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

That's right. I assume you already know about the fiction guidelines? I'd take a shot at it, but I'm quite busy ATM. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:25, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Alright, I'm going to attempt to change the whole section into the present tense. --- Krezos (talk) 21:10, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I changed all the past tense parts of the plot description I could find to present tense. The section still isn't very good, but I'll try and improve it later (although I might need help with that). --- Krezos (talk) 21:23, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
You let me know here if you need anything specific (like citations). I am watching this page ;) Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:39, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! On the subject of citations, is Daizenshuu EX (www.daizex.com) a reliable source for information (and therefore citations)? --- Krezos (talk) 21:47, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, they pass as reliable sources. Do you know how to use the ref style tags? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 02:57, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Don't I use {ref} / {/ref} (only with < >, not { }) ? --- Krezos (talk) 15:28, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
That's right, <ref> </ref>. You learn quick! ;) Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:16, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
How do I place the [citation needed] tag? --- Krezos (talk) 16:49, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
To produce the [2] just type in <ref>Source?</ref> next to where you desire. Make sure you place them correctly per WP:CITE (meaning no extra spaces, no punctuation marks after the ref, etc.), like I did to Son Goku (Dragon Ball). Any questions? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:47, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Like this? [3] (Or <ref>http://www.examplecitationwebsite.com</ref>)--- Krezos (talk) 18:56, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Correctomundo! {^_^} Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:15, 3 April 2008 (UTC)


Rewrite Evolution Section

I think I should take a shot at rewriting this section - I corrected the tense but it still doesn't read very well. --- Krezos (talk) 09:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm now pretty sure that everything in that section is now present tense. I also changed some phrases so they should read better. --- Krezos (talk) 14:56, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I just noticed that the Evolution section mentions the Majin Buu saga being more humorous and mystical than the other later Dragon Ball sagas without citing a source (it could be argued about, so I think it needs a citation). I'll see if I can find a verifiable source. Perhaps it should also be mentioned that Neko Majin is a gag manga and is not technically canonical to the Dragon Ball universe.--- Krezos (talk) 15:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Whatever floats your boat ... Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 15:48, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, if it's not necessary I shouldn't add it. The article is for the informing of others, not my own reading pleasure. --- Krezos (talk) 15:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Are you able to obtain a WP:SOURCE? I don't even think that part about the Buu Saga is credible. But go ahead and mention that bit about Neko Majin. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll add the bit about Neko Majin - don't know where I'd get a source for that from though. I agree that the part about the Buu saga is not credible - shall I remove it? --- Krezos (talk) 16:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Perhaps a tweak? Haven't really looked at the sentence to support an outright removal. Be bold!. Do the edit and I'll take a gander. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 16:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I made the edits but I haven't yet cited a source for the statement I added on Neko Majin. I completely forgot the WP:BOLD policy! --- Krezos (talk) 17:04, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I've asked User:3bulletproof16, a veteran member of WP:DBZ, about a lengthy discussion concerning use of "canon", which apparently ended with it being discouraged. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:28, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
In future I'll avoid using the term. Sorry! --- Krezos (talk) 17:52, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
Regarding this edit [1]. All "canon" references are to be avoided when used in the Dragon Ball Universe. However because it is clear that Neko Majin is a parody story it is obvious that it is not intended to part of the established Dragon Ball Universe and no other reference needs to be made. In any case however, the use of the term "canon" when relating to anything Dragon Ball is discouraged.-- bulletproof 3:16 02:16, 5 April 2008 (UTC)