Talk:Dragon Ball (manga)

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Peer review Dragon Ball (manga) has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.
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[edit] Peer Review?

I want to nominate this article for peer review, as I think it's better than when I first saw it, but I don't know if it'd be appropriate. --- Krezos (talk) 20:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

If you think it would be appropriate, go for it ;) Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 00:24, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I nominated it. I think I'll comment on related discussion pages about it. --- Krezos (talk) 14:34, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Genres

I would like to change the "Action" genre to "Martial arts". The reasons should be painfully obvious, but here some nonetheless.

Keep in mind that "Martial arts" is an action sub-genre; so it's not so much "changing" as "refining" or "being specific".--Nohansen (talk) 04:29, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Can fantasy be included? Also, I'm assuming this change will apply to the others: Dragon Ball (anime), Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:48, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
The change to "Martial arts" would cover all incarnations of the series, of course. I'm not so sure about adding "fantasy". While the first half of the series is pretty "fantastical" (gods, demons and a monkey-boy), the second half (when Goku is revealed to be an alien) is decidedly sci-fi.--Nohansen (talk) 05:07, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
[[Fantasy]], [[Martial arts (genre)|Martial arts]], [[Science fiction genre|Science fiction]]
How does that look? Martial arts (genre) might have to be created, because the only other options apparently are Martial arts, Martial arts film and Hong Kong action cinema. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 05:18, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Martial arts (genre) could be made into a redirect to Martial arts film so we can have an idea of how many non-film articles actually link to the page. Although... there's also Wuxia to consider which, beside being a martial arts-fantasy film genre, it is also a martial arts-adventure literary genre.
About "fantasy": Like I said, I'm not sure. While the "Dragon Ball" half of the series is pretty much a fantasy adventure, when the "Dragon Ball Z" half comes around and reveals Goku, Kami and Piccolo as aliens it turn the series on its head and makes science fiction.
About "science fiction genre": That article is a list of sci-fi sub-genres. The correct article would be "Science fiction".
Bottom line: I only want to change "Action" to "Martial Arts". But if I where to suggest a change, it would be
[[Adventure (genre)|Adventure]], [[Martial arts film|Martial arts]]
Maybe other members of WP:WPDB have an opinion on this matter.--Nohansen (talk) 15:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I'll leave a message there and at WP:MANGA. BTW I fixed up Wuxia, except wasn't sure on placing italics on all of the words in #External links. Thoughts about that? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
I would go with changing to Martial arts (genre) but I think it’s necessary that we also change it to Sci-Fi and Fantasy as both apply to the series. The first half was done in a Fantasy-theme while the other half was mostly Sci-Fi leaving a few elements (like the Dragons, dragon balls, Kais and magicians) aside. On the other hand, the first half did have Androids and hovercrafts not to mention compact capsules that could contain anything, so there were some Sci-Fi elements there too.  UzEE  13:13, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I like the idea of Martial arts/Sci-fi/Fantasy.--FUNKAMATIC (talk) 15:06, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Wuxia, according to its article, appears to be a sub-genre of martial arts and fantasy so let's do this:
[[Adventure (genre)|Adventure]], [[Science fiction genre|Science fiction]], [[Wuxia]]
Thoughts? Maybe placing adventure is too much? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
"Wuxia" is strictly Chinese. One could that a foreign work is influenced by wuxia films (The Matrix, Giant Robo), but one can't say it is wuxia.--Nohansen (talk) 22:17, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Apparently, there's a Toriyama interview in Shonen Jump USA where he acknowledges the influence of the first Drunken Master. (link) If anyone can confirm the interview exists and cite the magazine, well... there's your source.--Nohansen (talk) 22:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
You're saying the website isn't a reliable source? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 08:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
What I'm saying is that it's best not to cite second hand sources. If the interview is real, our best option is to cite the magazine itself.--Nohansen (talk) 16:04, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I say we go with the website. Chances are we'll never find someone with that issue. Besides, Krezos used a myfavoritegames source so might as well right? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Maybe Jump Guru owns or has read that issue. Personally, I don't trust the website; I won't believe that interview is real unless I read the actual magazine... but that's just me.--Nohansen (talk) 20:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
You to ask him or should I? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 20:52, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Hell, maybe I should've found a better reference. I think I'll try that now. --- Krezos (talk) 20:27, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Changed it to the Daizenshuu EX newbie guide which mentions that Dragon Ball is loosely based on Journey to the West. --- Krezos (talk) 20:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, that's a better choice of ref. I noticed this edit, which should be done with the other Dragon Ball works, but what exactly is wrong with using a potential redirect (martial arts (genre)) and changing "science fiction" to the sub-genre "wuxia"? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:05, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
There's nothing wrong with using "Martial arts (genre)" (after a redirect is created) instead of "Martial arts film", I just used it out of instinct. There's a ton of reasons why Dragon Ball is not wuxia, but I'll give the most noticeable: "Wuxia" is commonly associated with swordplay, not hand-to-hand combat. For a wuxia "anime", see Legend of the Condor Hero.--Nohansen (talk) 18:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I see. Then mind if we use this presentation or is there a better proposal? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Don't use "Science fiction genre", use "Science fiction". The "Science fiction genre" article is just a list of sci-fi sub-genres with no real information.--Nohansen (talk) 18:39, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Sure. Do we have consensus? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I have some reservations about "fantasy", and think "adventure" should be obvious inclusion... but, what the hell. The change I was lobbying for (Action => Martial arts) was accepted, so I don't have anything else to add (here). Now, should Naruto and YuYu Hakusho undergo the same adjustment?--Nohansen (talk) 19:05, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes. Tenjho Tenge may need some attention as well. I had some second thoughts about "adventure", but only because this series isn't as broad as, say, One Piece or Saiyuki. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:21, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I think Naruto is "okay" where it stands. What exactly did you want to modify? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Action => Martial arts. The characters are martial artists, aren't they?--Nohansen (talk) 19:42, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I'd say yes, and no. Is there a genre which covers the whole ninja concept? Naruto, to me, leans more towards the styles of Ninja Scroll and Basilisk. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 19:57, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Follow-up on Naruto, here.--Nohansen (talk) 21:56, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
So let me just confirm, we are deciding what the correct genre for the Dragon Ball manga is. Right now the consensus is :
Fantasy, Martial arts, Science fiction.
I like this, I've read the entire manga. You guys have a pretty big discussion here, but why isn't comedy up for nomination here? I guess 4 would be pushing it though.--FUNKAMATIC (talk) 04:20, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Just "Science fiction", not "Science fiction genre", as it appears to be a list. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:05, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
I like the idea, agreed. --- Krezos (talk) 07:10, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Well I'd consider comedy-drama for Dragon Ball (anime). The entire Dragon Ball manga series, as well DBZ and DBGT stray from this and take a more sci-fi approach. Regardless, I'm awaiting a response from User:UzEE before I do anything. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 23:05, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
Comedy is sort of tricky here, because the earlier volumes focus mainly on comedy, but later comedy has a far smaller role. --- Krezos Farland (talk) 18:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Don't you agree that it would be best left for the Dragon Ball anime article? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 18:29, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I disagree, the manga is as humor based as the anime (including Z) is, perhaps even more so. I also think that the manga and anime of both Dragon Ball and Z (not Z in manga) have many comedy elements entwined into the entire story. The focus of the story arcs is martial arts, adventure, and science fiction but the humor is almost always there. Enough Comedy to justify it as a defining genre? probably not being as that the level of humor in the Dragon Ball manga is about as high as most other mangas and in order to make it a genre I believe it would have to be at a higher level than average. Sorry, I don't want to confuse the long discussion any more, but I thought this should be mentioned.--FUNKAMATIC (talk) 15:30, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
No one found that shonen should be added ?!?! SSJ 5 (talk) 02:14, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Shonen's a demographic, not a genre. And already listed. --erachima talk 02:20, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh, Ok, I haven't realized that discussion is not going that way (And haven't seen the demographics part) SRY SSJ 5 (talk) 13:15, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
We need to draw the line somewhere, as WP:MOS-AM#Content tells us to pick the two or three most accurate ones. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 04:17, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Remember the WP:MOS-AM is just a guideline. It suggests that "two or three genres should be sufficient for most articles", but there could be exceptions. That said, I have the same reservations about "comedy" that I have about "fantasy": while the first half is pretty funny, the second half not so much. I still think the best option is

[[Adventure (genre)|Adventure]], [[Martial arts film|Martial arts]]

I've been thinking... While the series has some sci-fi trappings (cyborgs, cloning, time travel), I'm not sure if that's enough to call it a genre. From what I remember, "science fiction" doesn't come too much into play in regards to the plot: Shen Long and the dragon balls, Senzu beans, chi blasts, gods, demons, shape-shifting, fusion dances and potara earrings... that's not "science", it's fantasy. Perhaps even, supernatural fiction.--Nohansen (talk) 19:25, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

This is hard to decide. But what made you change your mind about martial arts (genre)? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 21:48, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I suggest we tag it action, fantasy, sci-fi, and be done with it. --erachima talk 21:55, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

"Martial arts" (an action sub-genre) is not the problem. It's the sci-fi/fantasy part that's giving people nightmares. Comedy, too. --Nohansen (talk) 22:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Nohansen, did you see my above query? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:05, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, and if it's about my typing [[Martial arts film|Martial arts]] instead of [[Martial arts (genre)|Martial arts]] that doesn't mean I changed my mind about Martial arts (genre). I just copy-pasted my earlier suggestion. Either way, there'd be no sense linking to a red link in the genre box.--Nohansen (talk) 22:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
I have now made the article. Convinced? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:15, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Heh, looks good to me, Lord Sesshomaru.--FUNKAMATIC (talk) 05:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
I'd drop the sci-fi genre, really. Aside from some spaceships, a time machine and some robots, neither of which are REALLY prominently figured in the story as a whole (aliens aren't sci-fi per se), there's not a whole lot of sci-fi here. The humor, however, is there all the way through. AdamantBMage (talk) 08:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Journey to the West

The table stating the similarities between Dragon Ball and Journey to the West is misplaced, appearing in an unrelated section. I think that there should be a seperate section on what similarities occur between DB and Journey to the West (cited, of course). I can't really do this myself as I haven't read Journey to the West and I'm not the most talented or experienced Wikipedian. --- Krezos Farland (talk) 18:21, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm removing it. The box could probably go to Son Goku's page, it shouldn't be here. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Printings needed for Dragon Ball manga citations

Which editions are the manga series of? Check the books and see which editions and when they were printed. WhisperToMe (talk) 01:01, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

It's Viz (least the ones I referenced). Don't the ISBNs say this? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 07:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
I know VIZ made them, but I bet multiple printings use different ISBNs. Even if ISBNs are the same we still need to locate printings and determine which ones have edits. WhisperToMe (talk) 04:30, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Uub/Oob/Buu/Boo

If Buu is going to be changed to Boo, Uub should be changed to Oob, as Uub/Oob's name is supposed to be Buu/Boo in reverse. As it is, we have Boo, but Uub. --- Krezos Farland (talk) 12:25, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Think the changes have been completed. If you happen to catch any instances of "Uub", it would be great if you could change it to "Oob". Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 07:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Only found once instance of "Buu". I changed it to "Boo". It should all be consistent now. --- Krezos Farland (talk) 16:00, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Daizenshuu

As some of you may know, I generally abstain from making major DB-related edits these days. That aside, I just wanted to let any interested parties know that Viz is publishing Daiznshuu 1. Here are some references- http://bookweb.kinokuniya.co.jp/guest/cgi-bin/booksea.cgi?ISBN=1421525666 and http://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Ball-Illustrations-Akira-Toriyama/dp/1421525666/ref=sr_1_58?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211943159&sr=1-58Onikage725 (talk)