Talk:Dr. Michael M. Krop High School

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For an October 2004 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Dr. Michael M. Krop High School

Contents

[edit] BEFFSTEW school article scoring system

User:Dpbsmith proposed the following scoring system. I will work on getting a perfect 10.--AAAAA 16:00, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

  • After reading it in detail, I believe I can only gain the "E" point. School is too new to have an "F" (notable alumni) and I have not seen a "G" (national media story) yet. So I guess I will settle for an 8 score.--AAAAA 16:03, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

BEEFSTEW
Basic Education Evaluation Form and Standardized Test for Evaluating Worthiness

For use on articles on high schools, particularly those listed on VfD. This scoring system represents my personal opinion and nothing more. I will be using it in future in order to make sure that my own evaluations of high school articles are as objective and consistent as possible

Each "yes" answer counts one point.

A) Is the article more than two sentences long?
B) Does the article contain at least one coherent paragraph of text (other than list items)?
C) Is the article more than 2000 bytes long?
D) Does the article contain at least three facts that are not on the following list:

The school's name, address, telephone number, website.
The school's current enrollment
The name of the school's principal.
The school district to which it belong.
The school colors, school mascot, and name of one athletic team.

E) Does the article include a photograph of the school?
F) Does the article list at least one alumnus notable enough to be the subject of a Wikipedia article?
G) Does the article mention a regional or national news story that mentions the school? (Not descriptions of athletic events in local media) H) Besides F and G, does the article make a serious effort to establish the school's notability and describe some distinct things about it that distinguish it from other schools?
I) Would an alumnus of the school, reading the article, be pleased at how knowledgeable the article was?
J) Could a teacher learn anything relevant to a job search by reading this article?

Scoring examples:

Stone Valley Middle School is a public Middle School located in Alamo, CA.
Contact information:
3001 Miranda Avenue
Alamo, CA 94507
Phone: (925) 552-5640
Principal: Shaun McElroy
Website: Stone Valley Middle School Homepage

Score 1 (item A)

Early version of Dr. Michael H. Krop High School

Score 3 (items A, B, D)

Improved version of Dr. Michael H. Krop High School

Score 7 (items A, B, C, D, H, I, J)


Montgomery Bell Academy Montgomery Bell Academy

Score 8 (items A, B, C, D, G ("Dead Poets Society"), H, I, J)

Moanalua High School

Score 9 (items A, B, C, D, E, F, H, I, J)

[edit] 6.5 GPA?

Maybe add a GPA explanation for those of us only familiar with a 4 point system. Posiduck 12:39, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Changes that should be made...

Some of this article includes a lot of non-important information, as well as a lot of information that would need to be updated frequently, etc. Since AAAAA knows more about this school than anyone, I'll just list the suggestions here and let him incorporate them as he sees fit. These items are listed in the order they occur in the article:

  • Formatting/style issues:
    • You need to wikify a lot of the links, such as dates and organizations (American Red Cross, etc.).
      • Will do.--AAAAA 00:26, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
        • Done.--AAAAA 00:41, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • Too many words are capitalized, such as "Orthodontist", "Magnet school".
      • Will work on it.--AAAAA 00:26, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
        • Done, at least what I noticed. Anybody else that finds something that needs to be correctedt, please do--AAAAA 00:41, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • TOC occurs too late, should probably occur right after the first line
      • Sorry for my ignorance, but what's TOC?--AAAAA 00:26, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • Wanders close to POV with the paragraph starting "Every year students from ..."
      • How would you change it?--AAAAA 00:26, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • Headings have too many capitalized letters in them as well
      • Will work on it.--AAAAA 00:26, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • Sometimes the school is called "Michael Crop" -- this should be "Krop"
      • Did not notice. Will work on it.--AAAAA 00:26, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
        • Corrected.--AAAAA 00:49, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • For each of the awards and achievements there doesn't need to be a subheading -- most of this stuff can probably be put in paragraphs.
      • Probably, but when I started adding them piece by piece they did not look cluttered.--AAAAA 00:26, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • Notability issues:
    • % of students with free/reduced price lunch is not important
      • Will delete.--AAAAA 00:26, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
        • Deleted.--AAAAA 00:41, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • % of students who were absent is not important
      • Will delete.--AAAAA 00:26, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
        • Deleted--AAAAA 00:41, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    • Achievements & awards is WAY too big. People winning large national awards should be mentioned. Teams that win should be mentioned, but mentioning each name of the "Florida Forensic League Varsity State Champion Team" is just too much. A student who got 10th place in a local math competition isn't notable. Valedictorians and salutatorians aren't notable. A student who got a scholarship (unless it was from like Intel talent search or some other VERY large and notable competition) shouldn't be mentioned.
      • Will work on it. Before I started adding them, some of the DELETE votes suggested I add any type of achievements or awards to make the article more "notable". I guess I overextended.--AAAAA 00:26, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
        • I think I will leave it like this for now, but will invite some students to comment/modify.--AAAAA 00:41, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
  • The article is a bit bloated, but if you make the above changes it should be nice, concise, and appropriate. For example of a very notable high school on a national level see DuPont Manual Magnet High School. It's a short article, but it's good. I didn't go there, but I know that it's famous.CryptoDerk 23:46, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)
    • You are right. But I think it's easier to work "down" on a bloated article than to work "up" when the article is stilly a "baby" with not much info. Also, I am counting on other people to improve/modify/delete.
      • Will keep working on it. I guess the article will improve even more in the next 30 days.--AAAAA 00:41, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

This article is quite extensive, but it contains a good deal of non-notable material, such as names of individual students, small awards that individual students or faculty won, etc. My changes have repeatedly been reverted, so I'm trying to open up discussion here. See WP:PJSCH for suggestions on school articles. Cheers. --BaronLarf 13:26, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

  • I don't normally follow this article but came across it in another place. I think taking it back to what is suggested in Wikipedia:WikiProject Schools#Structure and dropping most of the other headings would be a good place to start the cleanup. Then for the data that is left someone needs to ask are the events and the people really notable? If not delete. Vegaswikian 18:25, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • I think that "notability" is a subjective term, and the supposed lack of it should not be used to "destroy" this or any other article. I believe that an article on a high school should contain information for "related" readers and "casual" readers. For the casual reader, a lot of information might not be "notable" or relevant, but for the "related" reader (student, ex-student, parent, teacher or anybody that knows the school or has some special interest on it), it can and should contain more specific information about achievements & awards, top students, etc. Of course, with time, as more information accumulates, it could be slowly condensed leaving only the most important facts. It took a lot of time to put together all the bits and pieces of information. I don't think the article deserves to have wholesale changes done to it. It is so difficult and time consuming to create and so easy to delete mountains of data with one click...--AAAAA 04:49, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
    • To add a little more on the thought...The idea is that a prospective parent can quickly see the boundaries of attendance to know if he/she can get his child in this school; a prospective student can quickly see something interesting in a particular sport or field; ex-students can check who was the valedictorian in xxxx year, etc, etc. What might not be interesting for some people, can be interesting for others.--AAAAA 04:55, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think it needs to be rewritten using the info already in the article. It reads like an unorganized essay... and it tends to ramble. Also, its introduction is a mess, and its first setence is a horrible introductory sentence! PRueda29 20:08, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

  • "Clean-up" should not be a "Destroy-up". If you read the discussion that took place when the article was going to be deleted, you would see that the information removed by User:PRueda29 was actually the one that SAVED the article from deletion.

[edit] Recently? Need to be a bit more specific.

"The Miami-Dade and Broward School districts have recently decided to allow students living near Krop and in Broward County to optionally cross over into the district and attend Krop if they wish, though this only affects students in the immediate area surrounding the school."

[edit] "Top Students" section and other NN sections

Four times now other editors or myself have attempted to remove the top students section as being non-notable, a privacy violation and part of WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of information. These sections should be removed along with large non-notable portions of other sections, including: "Achievements & awards", "News archive", and the staff list under "The Lightning Strike Newspaper". Similarly, when gems such as "The cremony included" are found in the article, it is difficult to claim that cleanup is not necessary. Finally, please consider WP:OWN with regards to this article. — Scm83x hook 'em 23:06, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

  • I have removed most of the nonsense vanity from the article; I fully support what Scm83x says above about WP:NOT, and will revert any re-addition of information about individuals' achievements. If this information were written in individual articles for the students, they would be deleted without complaint, and so writing about them in the school article is an attempt to exploit a loophole. See Adrian Khoo for a similar example. As for all the internal school cruft, look at this edit to see that this junk isn't acceptable in any school article, but unfortunately is quite common. Thanks. Harro5 23:21, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
    • I have restored the News Archive part, which I think should stay as a whole. Feel free to replace all names you find there with "a student" or something like that, to elminate what you call vanity.--AAAAA 03:22, 8 May 2006 (UTC)