Talk:Dr. Cat

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Famicom style controller This article is within the scope of WikiProject Video games. For more information, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
Stub This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the assessment scale.
Low This article is on a subject of Low priority within gaming for inclusion in Wikipedia 1.0.
VG To-do:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
Stub This article has been rated as Stub-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]


Articles for deletion
This page was previously nominated for deletion.
Please see prior discussions before considering re-nomination:

Contents

[edit] Reasons against deletion as per WP:BIO

  • Dr. Cat is one of the two people who founded Dragon's Eye Productions and co-created Furcadia, a unique long-running online social game which has an estimated 60,000 players (and continuing to grow after 9 years).
  • He has worked in the video game industry for over two decades, contributing to many notable titles (most of them not mentioned in this article).
  • 10,000 Google hits (searching "Dr. Cat" is useless) for a video game programmer (these are all him, I checked a random sampling of them) isn't anything to sniff at. Other people involved in video games like Jukka Tapanimäki (200 results) and Chuck Bueche (800 results) have much fewer Google results, and yet they have undisputed articles.

I have removed the deletion tag. (sorry for copying this almost verbatim from my response at Talzhemir, but their notability is mostly the same) -kotra 21:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

That said, this article could use some expanding. I don't know much about him, though, so I'll leave that to someone else. -kotra 21:58, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Birth name

Having failed to have my point understood via edit summaries, I quote from WP:BLP:

Wikipedia also contains biographies of people who, while notable enough for an entry, are nevertheless entitled to the respect for privacy afforded non-public figures. In such cases, editors should exercise restraint and include only information relevant to their notability. ... In borderline cases, the rule of thumb should be "do no harm."

This is not me "inventing rules that aren't there." I have cited this policy several times, and refusing to read it doesn't mean it isn't there. Dr. Cat has made it clear that he does not wish his birth name to be made public, and I don't see the relevance of it anyway. He goes by "Dr. Cat" now, so there isn't really much of a reason in this case to disrespect his desire for privacy. -kotra 21:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

  • And where is the mention of not mentioning birth names? Right. Maybe you should read the whole policy? And you can say what you want about what dr cat wants. --Peephole 23:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
The policy is vague on purpose, so that people can use their judgement to decide whether or not to include potentially harmful information. There are many people who have changed their names or otherwise go by pseudonyms, for many reasons. I do not know his reason, but I am inclined to err on the side of caution and respect his wish for privacy, because I do not think a former name is relevant to his notability in this case. If you believe that the name is essential to the success of this article, you are welcome to nominate it for deletion again, because I'm convinced that including the name would violate the policy I have cited. And I'd like to note that the onus is on the includer of information (you) to prove that it doesn't violate policy. -kotra 03:57, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
  • His birthname is no secret and reported on by secondary sources. No problem including it. You haven't even cited a source where the man claims he wants his birth name to be a big secret.--Peephole 04:14, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
I repeat: the onus is on you, as the contributor, to prove how the policy is NOT being violated. There are two main ways you can do this: by showing that the information is definitely relevant to the article's notability, or by showing that Dr. Cat doesn't actually mind. Simply because other websites have displayed this information does not mean that we should, as well. I agree that if someone really wanted to learn this information, they could, but it's not Wikipedia's responsibility to include every bit of information that is available, especially if it violates policy.
Also, continuing to re-add the information before this dispute is resolved, without providing edit summaries, is discouraged. I have attempted to move the discussion here to the talk page, in accordance with WP:DR, and I would appreciate it if you would do me (and Wikipedia policies) the same justice. -kotra 05:17, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
  • What? I assume that person doesn't mind his birthname being published on wikipedia as it is already published at various other websites. His name is no secret. And you still haven't delivered any evidence the person doesn't want his name on wikipedia.--Peephole 12:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
You don't seem to understand the point I'm trying to get across. I repeat once more: the onus is on you, not me, to prove that policy is not being violated. I shouldn't have to bother the subject of this article to prove to you that this is an issue. But if you don't believe my word, just look at the credits for a game he created. One can plainly see that he uses "Dr. Cat" as his name, and in all of the interviews he has given ([1], [2], [3], etc) he has never mentioned his birth name. Wouldn't it follow that there's a reason for that?
The websites that mention his birth name are not Wikipedia. Other websites aren't restricted by the same rules as Wikipedia. The fact that this information is available on other websites is yet another reason why it doesn't need to be included here. If someone really wants to know, they can just do a Google search. Why assist in violating his privacy?
I'm sorry that you have chosen to not understand this perspective, and to continue re-adding the disputed content, even with no explanations. I have tried to be reasonable and have even told you how you can be successful in keeping the content. That's all I have to say for now. -kotra 03:34, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
I sympathize with Kotra's position, particularly if he has some inside knowledge about what Dr. Cat wants. However, I also have to agree with Peephole that a subject's legal name/birth name is clearly notable and relevant to an encyclopedia article. Bios about living people do require tact and caution. However, absent a clear expression of his wishes and a valid reason to supress the information, I don't see how we can exclude/censor a subject's legal name from an encyclopedia article. That's my two cents.Qball6 03:09, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
I understand why Qball wrote:

I sympathize with Kotra's position, particularly if he has some inside knowledge about what Dr. Cat wants.

since Kotra wrote:

Dr. Cat has made it clear that he does not wish his birth name to be made public, and I don't see the relevance of it anyway.

It would lead one to believe Kotra had insider info;However, I don't believe he actually does seeing how he also has written the following

I don't know much about him, though, so I'll leave that to someone else. -kotra 21:58, 1 August 2006

To not list Dr Cat's name as David Shapiro is unfair to any reader who wishes information on the history of game developing and to deny that to whomever seeks the knowledge is wrong. It could be something as simple as a person wanting to know the history of Furcadia's development or the more complex interest in the beginnings of MUDs to an in depth study on relationship between different types of role-play games. Dr. Cat, as David Shapiro in the early years and not so long ago, was an integral part of all of that mentioned and more. Even if he had legally changed his name to Dr. Cat, which he has not, it still would be pertinent that his birth name of David Shapiro be public knowledge. Can you imagine if the current American president decided he, from this day forward, wanted to be known as Georgie Poo and not have any reference to his earlier name of George Bush? That wouldn't be right because too much he was involved in happened with his birth name. The same goes for Dr. Cat as David Shapiro in the world of game developing. If he'd always used the name Dr. Cat exclusively from the beginning of his game developing days perhaps that would be different but he did not. There are numerous articles, and even interviews, with him using the name David Shapiro well into the 2000s. More importantly Dr. Cat himself used his real name of David Shapiro where it would have major relevance to his bio on this site. Actually he used his name of David Shapiro to the extent that he should be listed in the main article here as David Shapiro a.k.a. Dr. Cat. There are so many examples to list so here are a few:

If you look at a 1995 blurb from Wired Magazine entitled Fire of the Dragon, he is referred to as Dr. Cat yes, but he himself was a contributor to the page, and most probably that blurb, and he is also listed on that same page under the Thanks to the Wired 3.03 Surf Team, as David Shapiro. In Contact Consortium Visits DragonSpires graphical MUD Developers, he is listed as David Shapiro(aka Dr. Cat). On Google Group rec.games.mud his member name is David Shapiro, a choice he would have made himself. When he himself announced the upcoming DragonSpires, his user name is David Shapiro at the rec.games.mud.announce [4]. But most importantly, on the game Windwalker, in the credits, he is listed there as

Programming Assistance: David Shapiro,Micromagic and on the game Ultima VI The False Prophet, he is credited as a writer as David Shapiro and the name Dr. Cat is no where to be found on either. So where Kotra writes:

But if you don't believe my word, just look at the credits for a game he created. One can plainly see that he uses "Dr. Cat" as his name, and in all of the interviews he has given ([5], [6], [7], etc) he has never mentioned his birth name.

that is simply incorrect information.MarryMusteline 16:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

You make a good case. My position has changed now, because of your points and also because I heard Dr. Cat speak on this subject recently and he doesn't seem to care as much as he used to about maintaining anonymity. I'd also compare this to the article on Wendy Carlos which had a similar dispute and decided to include her birth name Walter Carlos (although the decision was probably made easier by the fact that her perhaps most notable work, Switched-On Bach was credited to her birth name). So I've changed my mind, and I think David Shapiro can stay due to its notability. Dr. Cat is his primary name though, both professionally and personally, so I think he should continue to be referred to as such (like Bono, for want of a better example). -kotra 20:26, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What is "Dr. Cat"?

The more I considered this issue (a little sad, I know), the more I was puzzled about what/who Dr. Cat is. Did our subject legally change his name to Dr. Cat? If so, then there is a somewhat better argument for excluding the birth name. If it's a pseudonym, as seems most likely, then his legal/birth name should be included. I think this question needs to answered in this article - I came away pretty confused when I first read it.Qball6 03:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notability

I think sufficient notability is established by the fact that Furcadia was a 2003 Independent Game Festival finalist (http://www.igf.com/2003finalistswinners.html). If there's no argument, I'll pull the tag. Tlesher 04:14, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Added note to article and cut the tag out myself. GreenReaper 00:31, 9 August 2007 (UTC)