Talk:Downtown no Gaki no Tsukai ya Arahende!!

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

笑
This article is part of the WikiProject Japan Owarai taskforce, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to Owarai. To participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the taskforce page to join the taskforce and/or contribute to the discussion.


Contents

[hide]

[edit] Broadcasting TV stations

I've edited the times in this section because they were half-mixed 12-hour and military time, the latter also having the AM/PM timestamps which are redundant. Sparky-sama (talk) 18:34, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] undone revisions

Masic88, why exactly did you undo all of my revisions? My reasoning:

  • out (アウト auto?) is not out-to.
  • Adjusting unnecessary use of quotes. Is there some kind of doubt that the victors of the preliminary trials were in fact victors? If not, these quotes are unnecessary.
  • "Guys" shouldn't be included the quotes of "Gaki no Tsukai"
  • Again, there is no doubt that these are specials, so the quotes are not necessary
  • Batsu gemu clearly should be batsu game
  • "by" seems to be a better choice than "via" in this sentence
  • He quite clearly says lotions (ローションズ rōshonzu?), not yoshons (ヨーションズ yōshonzu?)
  • There is no need to differentiate between victah and Victor. As with out-to, it is simply the same word spoken with a Japanese accent. Victor (ビクター bikutā?)

LeeWilson (talk) 14:32, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

If you can't provide any sort of reasoning for deleting my edits then I will redo them. LeeWilson (talk) 14:19, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] response to query

well, lee, i was asking the same thing when i saw some of my work altered. when i undid your revisions, i left the note that some of your edits i might agree to, while others i wouldn't.

but i am actually open to change if i think they're justifiable, of course.

also, i am glad you have given explanations for your edits — that's exactly the sort of thing i look for.

and i will provide my own reasoning, as requested, through responding point-by-point to what you've told me:

  • if you know for a fact that That is how it's spelled, then, by all means, let it be auto.

i'm not fluent in japanese/nihongo by the least, though ... so you should be able to understand why i'd feel doubtful that it's auto instead of out-to.

you seem knowledgeful with japanese, so i probably should take your word for it. but, you can you explain why, on the show, (when the announcer calls it), we see the kanji of the cited, next to the word "OUT", yes?

  • you ever hear about boxing? and of how, on some occasions, a fighter might be declared the winner, but certainly doesn't look like one?

that's how i feel about the trials that Gaki no Tsukai use to determine who gets further punishment, and who gets to heap additional punishment onto the others.

jimmy onishi got slapped in the eye by a monkey, in one of those Videos he's becoming famous for; it hurt him, but, it also succeeded in making everyone there but Hamada laugh.

it was a sacrifice (one that They didn't have to air), but it worked.

  • since i don't know of a better way to refer to them, i was actually using that term holistically.

i can see where you're coming from, certainly, but my intention was to give them an unofficial, informal name for us who are native to the united states.

sorta like, "las Dulces Regulares Ladies," for example; the individuals aren't known as that, so you'd quote it, to make that distinction.

and, actually, if i didn't italicize "Gaki no Tsukai," then i need to go back and do so, later.

  • i suppose you're right.

i just didn't know if that is what They officially considered them; if so, then i'll concede.

  • i'm not quite comfortable with mixing up japanese and english like that, here — i feel it should be all of one or the other with this sort of term.

so, it can either be batsu gemu, since that's how i presume it's pronounced in Japan, or it should be punishment game. if you'd like, i can italicize that, too, so we can be sure i'm using a non-english term.

  • you should've seen how the No Laughing-batsu gemu part of this page look before i stepped in.

heck — i had even adjusted some of my own edits, because i wasn't satisfied by my wording.

with that said, i do feel "via" is a better facilitator for the meaning i was trying to convey — by strikes me as being somewhat-overused, anyway.

hopefully you'd agree?

  • i listened and i listened and i listened.. ..and i know i heard jimmy, himself, say a word that sounded like yoshons.

"lotions" would be funnier, i agree, but it's not what he had enunciated; the same goes for "Victor".

the burden of proof goes to you, then: find out if those were the offical words they wanted to onishi-san to use for that skit.

if/when you do, and report it back to me, i'll gladly modify my edit to reflect the fact that he was saying "Victor" and "lotions" with an accent.

since you seem to be comfortable with Japanese, you can probably fire off an e-mail through the web site to them, to ask.

but i definitely cannot and will not ever outright proclaim, by itself, "...where he said lotion/Victor" — those weren't the words that came out of his mouth.


so.. ..that's all for that.

i hope i was able to state my case in a convincing manner, bud. i'm going to be pretty staunch about it, too.

´look forward to hearing back from you.

thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Masic88 (talk • contribs) 10:54, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

  • re the quotes on the "victors": I understand your reasoning here. Perhaps it can be mentioned somewhere, since I did not understand it, and others may not either.
  • Having guys within the quotes is not a huge issue with me. I don't really see the point, but I don't really have a huge objection against it either.
  • re via, I'm not passionate about my change here either. If you really think via is a better choice, I'm not going to argue.
  • TV Specials are indeed called specials in Japan.
  • I agree that we should not mix Japanese and English. On this page, "batsu game" is used 23 times, while "batsu gemu" is used only twice. While it is true that batsu is not translated (likely because it is not easily translatable), it seems pointless to keep gemu when it does have a close counterpart in English. Because of this, I feel "batsu game" is a better choice than "batsu gēmu".
  • Finally, the part about pronunciation:
  • (アウト auto?) is a full-fledged Japanese word, but is used only in a sense similar to how the English word "out" would be used in baseball. As per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)#Romanization Revised Hepburn romanization should be used to transliterate Japanese words in all cases, thus auto (please keep in mind it is not pronounced as English "auto"). However, I feel there is no need to reference the Japanese word at all when the English word "out" suffices.
  • (ビクター、ヴィクター bikutā?) is the Japanese pronunciation of the name Victor (you can consult the Japanese Page if you want). When you hear "Victah" you are actually just hearing "Victor" pronounced in a Japanese accent. This is about as close as an average Japanese person can get to saying "Victor". I don't see any need to semi-phonetically represent a Japanese accent.
  • Finally, (ローション rōshon?) is another standard Japanese word that can be found in dictionaries. And like Victor, rōshonzu is the closest a typical Japanese person could get to pronouncing "lotions". I don't mean to insult you or anything, but if you don't know Japanese at all, then I do not think you are really qualified to discern what is being said. The key point here is that a Japanese r sound is not the same sound as an English l sound, and does not exist in English. The difference between these two sounds is likely the source of your confusion. Additionally, yōshon(zu) is entirely without meaning in Japanese. Lotion, on the other hand, can carry sexual connotations, making it more likely they would laugh.
My point is that indeed you did not hear the "lotions" and "Victor" in perfect English. You heard rōshonzu and bikutā, which is how Japanese people pronounce lotions and Victor. I believe the disparity you are hearing is partly the result of your unfamiliarity with the Japanese sound system, and partly the result of Jimmy's strong accent.
Also, you really should not revert someone's edit outright unless it is absolutely necessary, and if you do, you should at least leave a message stating exactly why you did it. Helpful tips regarding edit reverting can be found at Help:Reverting.
LeeWilson (talk) 18:06, 22 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] resolution

that was easy.

i'll take care of "lotions/Victor," and "auto" myself.

(i feel that other people who are even less familiar with japanese-language conventions than i am should know what the proper japanese-Romanization of "out" is; so i will continue referencing it in there.

we don't need other people making mistakes when they don't have to...)

..

did you know someone else came and changed "out-to" to a-u-to?

what do you think about that?


Rex Ganymede 20:55, 2 June 2008 (UTC)