Talk:Doping (sport)

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Contents 1 Walter Mayer 2 Sports-Ethics 3 History of Performance Enhancing Drugs 4 Definition of Doping 5 A possible reference 6 Landis testosterone 7 Major League Baseball Players Accused of Doping 8 Possible source 9 Alcohol and caffeine 10 Etymology 11 Subtitles 12 ripped?

[edit] Walter Mayer

The sentence "At the 2006 Winter Olympics, Walter Mayer fled from the police when, acting on a tip, the Italian authorities conducted a surprise raid to search for evidence of doping." is simply wrong: It was not a secret that Walter Mayer visited the (his) Austrian athletes (it was covered by media) so the police was not "acting on a tip". Walter Mayer did not flee from the (Italian) police, he had simply left Italy the day before. He did flee from Austrian police a day later, because he was driving his car drunken. If nobody changes the sentence, I'll simply remove it. CE 80.108.89.202 23:51, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sports-Ethics

I think it would be great if someone could add an account (or multiple accounts) of why doping is unethical. There is no real reference to sportsmanship in this article, nor any real discussion of why, for instance, some drugs are legal while others are not. What characteristics make use of a substance unsportsmanly? How has opinion on doping changed over the years (aside from the history of who caught on to the criminalization trend given in the article, which is a good section).

It seems most of this article is written under the premise that doping is bad, which i agree with, without giving an adequate explanation of why. This may pose an NPOV issue, although i doubt anyone is going to argue it. Regardless, I think a section elaborating on why doping is commonly percieved as an immoral practice would be a good addition to the article. Shaggorama 08:22, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

• I agree 209.10.89.3 19:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Another good addition to article would be also thoughts about legalizing doping, they do it anyway. Everybody. Something like this link http://www.slate.com/id/89786 will help. Cthulhoid 14:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History of Performance Enhancing Drugs

This article would benefit from a brief section narrating the history of doping in sports. soverman 02:54 10 Jan 06 (UTC)

[edit] Definition of Doping

A proper definition of doping is missing in the article. A philosophical discussion> What is doping? When is it doping?

The ambivalence of many drugs & measures w.r.t. doping has not been discussed. Depending on the intentions of the user something might become doping, it might also unintentionally become doping, and only subsequently it might become legally sanctioned 'Doping' by certain, hopefully previously announced, rules.

Some examples: Coffee is almost like any other beverage, consumed by many and in some countries in huge amounts. Still it was on the WADA-list until 2004. A philosophical investigation had been needed whether it is unethical (morally not accepted) that a sportsperson (athlete, chess player), drinks coffee for any other than usual reasons (e.g. to become fully 'awake').

Similarly with many medicaments.

Some treatments, not involving any external (chemicals, medicaments) or body-internal drug (more own red bloodcells) are also considered as 'doping'. Example: hight stages, oxygen tent, leading to body-own, more red blood cells.

How about other treatments?:

Is Meditation an unethical self-treatment? Most probably not. But actually why not? It is after all intended to enhance performance. Is meditation allowed, hence not doping, if the person is telling everyone (including his/her competitors), that s/he is meditating?

How about getting good sleep & living a healthy life (whatever that might include for now).

The discussion why these should not be considered as doping should follow the same lines why others (treatments, drugs) are (already) considered drugs - and vice versa).

• Fairness is most probably a very important argument in the course of that discussion.

Can everyone sleep? Do meditation? Drink coffee? Use drugs ...?

• Health affection is another important topic:

How bad are coffee, medicaments, drugs, top athletic sport (meniscus, ligaments ...) for your health in short & long term perspective.

Most probably it turns out that some decisions are taken arbitrarily at some green table and without consensus of all users of the system (athletes).

Transparency in decision making and clarity of the rules, beyond simply stating concentrations & milli grams are certainly wished in sports. Tommie 10:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

This is not the place for soapboxing, but to answer some of your concerns... As far as I'm aware, coffee was never banned. Perhaps caffeine but I doubt coffee was ever banned. Caffeine is a psychoactive drug and if used by an athlete to stay awake, it is in effect using it for performance enhancing reasons. Also, perhaps you're a little to concentrated on wikipedia. In reality, most systems work without the consensus of all users. Nil Einne 08:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A possible reference

Info-en recived a suggestion for a reference to be added to the the article: Claudio M. Tamburrini and Torbjorn Tannsjo (eds.) Genetic Technology and Sport (London and New York: Routledge, 2005). The suggestion also noted that they currently run a research project on the subject [1]. .:.Jareth.:. ^babelfish 18:18, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

---

The first performance enhancing attempt was in 776 BC Ancient Greek Olympics by eating ingested sheep´s testicles, which the Ancient Greeks knew to be a source of testosterone production. The second attempt was by the big winner in the 480 B.C. Olympics, who ate meat (which we now know to be high in B vitamins and creatine) for 10 months before the games. Meat is not doping food is not doping , next thing you will write is that athletes that train are doping themselves with excersice.

[edit] Landis testosterone

I suggest deleting the following from the paragraph on the Landis testosterone test: "(with normal levels of testosterone and deficient levels of epitestosterone)"

The reason is firstly that the evidence for the statement as far as I know is only from a statement by Landis himself. Secondly, it is irrelevant. The test is of a ratio T:E and this is what is used to denote an abnormal reading. The actual concentration of T or E has no meaning by itself. In any case, exogenous T was detected. (If the epitestosterone was low this is only relative to the dilution in the urine sample and it was probably diluted because of all the water he was drinking.)

Note: this is my first contribution so I hope this suggestion is in keeping with wikipedia rules.

[edit] Major League Baseball Players Accused of Doping

I think that this catagory is not needed and is flawed. One I could just say that any random player used steroids and thus that is an accusation and needs to be put into this list. I think that if this list is to stay than it should be changed and moved to the game of shadows section to be included as a list of players accused in that particular book. Metsman 18:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Possible source

I had copied over some material from Anabolic steroid, but then I discovered it was a copyvio. However, the source is good, so here it is: [2]

[edit] Alcohol and caffeine

I suppose it's true that caffeine is a performance-enhancing substance (though this should have a citation supporting it), but how in the world is alcohol performance-enhancing? eae 00:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

Do you think an etymological sourse of the word is in order? i think it can add to the article... is it because of dopimines (orwhatever) in the brain? or that the people are dopes? Boomshanka 01:37, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Given the discussion here I think an etymology/usage addition would be useful. Doping is something of a loaded term and it would be good to have some reference to the evolution of the word; and for the record, as much as I agree with you, I don't believe it's because users are dopes! Dick G 04:28, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subtitles

I think a lot of the subtitle headlines in this article are unencyclopedic. Titles like "A Miracle Muscle Pill" don't give the reader a straightforward idea of what the section is about. Perhaps the titles should be changed so they are more direct. What do you think?

I was thinking that as well, they sound like they have been copied from an article or documentary. cyclosarin (talk) 06:10, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

They do sound like out of a "60 minute" program. I think, generally, the subject is to large and needs to be broken up in sub-articles and different sports. The article needs a rewrite, begining with the titles!EA210269 (talk) 06:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] ripped?

it looks like this whole article has been ripped from somewhere considering the titles either someone is trying to make wikipedia sound cool and trendy, or this is copy-paste! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.45.59.34 (talk) 03:02, 29 March 2008 (UTC)