Wikipedia talk:Don't Feed the Divas

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  • applause* Great essay. Rfwoolf (talk) 15:06, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
  • Cool. Addhoc (talk) 00:46, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I am very offended by this, and will be storming off in a huff. Friday (talk) 18:54, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Ah, very nice. Congratulations to the author. Moreschi2 (talk) 18:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Saw this at AN/I. So neat I have just created WP:DIVA to aid in easing this essay into general usage. --Relata refero (disp.) 19:06, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Lol, this reminds me of Jaranda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.54.207 (talk) 23:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
  • This is also sage advice for areas of life other than wikis. SuW (talk) 21:45, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
  • This is the best essay I've ever read. We need more of this kind of thing. Nobody of Consequence (talk) 20:25, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] <sigh> Too true, too true

What a good essay! As a declaration of interest, I've been involved with two individuals who fall within this category and are mentioned on the corresponding WP:AN/I discussion today, one of whom was Giano. Frankly, I found both individuals extremely hard work to deal with; part of the problem is that because Divas do good work they then start pushing the boundaries of acceptable behaviour, including what are supposed to be the core policies of WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL. Admins who have become their friends or admirers start to become their protectors; one only has to look at Giano's block log to see how he has effectively never been held to account for behaviour which, in anyone else, would have earned lengthy blocks. It's no wonder that the Diva-like behaviour of acting like a three year-old throwing a tantrum is, ultimately, the inevitable result.

The other side of the coin to the argument 'they do much good work for WP' is that they get sidetracked into unproductive tilting at windmills: posting on WP:AN/I, hunting down sock-puppets, POV-pushing, and abusing anyone whom they self-identify as their enemies. Yes, they post good articles, but they also lead to an atmosphere of casual abuse which is a complete turn-off for other editors and serves to drive them away.

So: Admins (especially); don't encourage these people, and don't post a message of condolence on their pages when the inevitable Wiki suicide note appears. Two Admins, for example, have posted their own sad notes of condolence on a Talk page on which the individual concerned has posted the terms 'scum', 'shit', 'piss', 'cunt', 'lackey', 'ignorant assumption', 'fuck', and 'stalkers' directed at his fellow editors.

As for the Divas, who gives a toss about their sad battles? Not only will we get on fine without you, we'll get on better. I don't care about Giano's IRC excitement because I keep my nose clean, so I don't see any reason why I should appear on it; and anyway No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. And as for the other gentleman, who's just gone off in a huff because two Admins refused to allow his POV-pushing on a minor article - I mean, come on! Why should anyone post anything on these individuals' Talk pages other than - 'You are not the centre of the universe; grow up'? --Major Bonkers (talk) 15:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The flipside: is Wikipedia sacrosanct?

Sometimes people that have a lot to offer and have offered a lot in the past leave for rather good reasons. I have seen scientists with a rather rare expertise who wrote about their own field reverted by freshmen in some other discipline who preferred to see their rather superficial understanding broadcast as the ultimate wisdom. Or the experts were simply told that this contribution was not 'good enough' for wiki and their stories were deleted by people who did not even understand what they were deleting. And yes I have seen experts leave in disgust.

I suppose they were 'Divas'? And I suppose I am a Diva for even questioning whether this is such a good thing for wikipedia? After all anyone that criticises wiki must be a 'troll' or a 'diva'. Wikipedia must be infallible. Jcwf (talk) 20:08, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

The "flip-side" or "devil's advocate" is of course good to scrutinise this analogy. However, to be fair, the circumstances you discribed were perhaps not good descriptions of wikiDiva-like behaviour. The previous post by Major Bonkers describes an example that seems more fitting, or the case of the admin JzG. You described people that have actually left the project - as opposed to people that threaten to leave the project unless they're praised and acknowledged or given preferential treatment - such as admins who want to be allowed to break civility rules dozens and dozens of times or abuse their admin privilages - or else they'll leave because people "aren't respecting them enough". Expert scientists are accountable to the same set of rules as anybody else, rules such as providing sources for their claims - not being incivil - not abusing their admin privilages - being open to discussion - not wheel-warring - not violating the three-revert-rule - following the dispute resolution processes. Don't get me wrong, Wikipedia has its fair share of POV pushers that would I'm sure silence out an 'expert' on a subject - but that is no reason to misbehave. In short, a Diva is probably somebody that believes they're entitled to extra special treatment - when in fact special attention has been given to the fact that admins are "just like regular users" but with a few more buttons, or are people with "mops and buckets and aren't any different". Rfwoolf (talk) 23:02, 6 June 2008 (UTC)