User talk:Doncram/Archive 2

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Contents 1 Armour-Stiner House 2 Featured list status 3 NHL article assessment criteria 4 Re: Darwin D. Martin House 5 St George Church Photo 6 Did you know 7 Chester A Arthur 8 Cite web and PDFlink 9 Geneseo Historic District article 10 I notice that you rated 11 National Historic Landmarks lists 12 Illinois Pages 13 National Historic District 14 Cogan House Covered Bridge 15 Historic Work 16 Oakland Memorial Chapel 17 President (steamboat) 18 Name order in List of National Historic Landmarks in Maine 19 Expansion trumped by Stub 20 Nebraska 21 Governor John Langdon Mansion 22 California NHLs, and PD request 23 Camp Topridge article 24 NRHP church articles 25 My NHLs 26 Robert S. Abbott House/Fort King 27 NRHP/NHL Infoboxes 28 Priestley House assessment 29 Cleanup of NHL articles 30 see Talk:‎Edgewater (Barrytown, New York) 31 Los Cerritos Ranch House 32 California NHLs, and PD request 33 T. G. Richards coordinates 34 Henry Cowell 35 Flat Rock 36 Re:Syracuse area historic places 37 Re: Your comment 38 Rice Hall 39 Sleeping Giant 40 Speedy deletion of Katherine Schipper 41 Accounting Hall of Fame 42 AfD nomination of Accounting Hall of Fame 43 Red links 44 New NHSR article in Connecticut 45 Old Quaker Meetinghouse 46 Grahamsville Historic District 47 Typo redirect Farmers and Merchants Union Bank (Columbia, Wisconsin) 48 Thanks for the warm welcome 49 Welcome 50 Kinneloa Mesa, California 51 Westhill High School 52 Thanks for your NY NHL work! 52.1 Poughkeepsie 52.2 Locust Grove DYK 52.3 October update 52.4 Armour-Stiner House 52.5 Featured list status 52.5.1 Peer review 52.6 NHL article assessment criteria 52.7 Riverby and the list 53 Re: Darwin D. Martin House 54 St George Church Photo 55 Did you know 56 Chester A Arthur 57 Cite web and PDFlink 58 Geneseo Historic District article 59 I notice that you rated 60 National Historic Landmarks lists 61 Illinois Pages 62 National Historic District 63 Cogan House Covered Bridge 64 Historic Work 65 Oakland Memorial Chapel 66 President (steamboat) 67 Name order in List of National Historic Landmarks in Maine 68 Expansion trumped by Stub 69 Nebraska 70 Governor John Langdon Mansion 71 California NHLs, and PD request 72 Camp Topridge article 73 NRHP church articles 74 My NHLs 75 Robert S. Abbott House/Fort King 76 NRHP/NHL Infoboxes 77 Priestley House assessment 78 Cleanup of NHL articles 79 see Talk:‎Edgewater (Barrytown, New York) 80 Los Cerritos Ranch House 81 California NHLs, and PD request 82 T. G. Richards coordinates 83 Henry Cowell 84 Flat Rock 85 Re:Syracuse area historic places 86 Re: Your comment 87 Rice Hall 88 Sleeping Giant 89 Speedy deletion of Katherine Schipper 90 Accounting Hall of Fame 91 AfD nomination of Accounting Hall of Fame 92 Red links 93 New NHSR article in Connecticut 94 Old Quaker Meetinghouse 95 Grahamsville Historic District 96 Thanks for the warm welcome 97 of vs. in 98 Bathhouse Row/Temp 99 Category discussions 100 Connecticut Hall (Yale University) prodded for deletion 101 Crouse College 102 Re: St. Peter's Episcopal Church (Albany, New York)‎ 103 Eastern State Penitentiary 104 Cape Field at Fort Glenn 105 Birdcraft Sanctuary 106 Phi Upsilon Chapter House and other images 107 Oklahoma 108 {{DANFS}} Linking 109 Just cos 110 Unclear Sources Help 111 Style guidance for PD sourced content. 112 Your nofootnotes tags 113 NHL in NH list 114 Syracuse University Buildings 115 Connecticut Audubon Society Birdcraft Museum and Sanctuary 116 Re: other Albany area pic or two? 116.1 General Electric Research Laboratory 117 Robert McGill Loughridge 118 January 20, 2008 119 Re: edits on List of NHLs in CT 120 Binghamton Asylum Pics 121 barnstar 122 Grace Episcopal Church 123 Chautauqua Institution 124 Thank you-NHL articles in Wisconsin 125 thanks for re-sorting the NHL of NYC list, it's a pain to do that, but worth it 126 New Orleans area photos 127 Edward Douglass White House 128 plaques 129 Thanks 130 Kate Mullany 131 Basin

[edit] Armour-Stiner House

Yes I did. As it happens I'm getting near it in my photo-processing queue ... hope to have that up by the end of the weekend (I'll add that to the octagon house list).

Speaking of NHLs, the very next photo I'm doing (not now, alas) is the Delaware and Hudson Canal ... I'll be transferring the text from the railroad article over with that one, too, and summarizing it at the railroad article. That pic will also, of course, be added to the NY NHL list.

I have added the pictures now. Daniel Case 23:02, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The reason I am not about to do it right now is that I'm headed down to Croton-on-Hudson with my son for Metro-North open house. Hopefully I might be able to get a Van Cortlandt Manor pic there, too (it's nearby, but I don't know how realistic walking there would be as we are taking the train and not driving). Daniel Case 14:51, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Update: This may not come as quickly as I had thought. After adding the picture, I have decided to expand Delaware and Hudson Canal; it's taking more than I thought it would. But I will get to the other images, hopefully before the end of the week. Daniel Case 04:21, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. Both the Draper House and the Armour-Stiner House images are now where you requested them. Daniel Case 08:06, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Featured list status

I've always thought that was something to shoot for for that one. And I think we've got a great list. However, I am not sure if missing some images would count against it ... I have yet to take some otherwise excellent articles I've been the prime developer on to FAC because I feel that they need one or two more images. I know there are those who won't count it against a nom, but it would be a good time to review previous FLs and current FLCs to get a good idea of what reviewers will be looking for.

Shame there isn't a list equivalent yet for Good Articles. Should be, though.

Update: I will be getting pics up for Springside, Hudson River Psych Center, Hudson River Historic District and Top Cottage soon. Daniel Case 14:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Update to the update: I decided, for the Psych Center, to go with an actual picture of the Main Building I found on a website under an not-reasonably replaceable fair-use claim (since the Main Building is not located where it can be photographed from public roads and the property is currently closed to the public, although trespassing would be easy enough as the image creators indeed did, I consider it unreasonable to expect that it can be replaced by a free image). I do have an email in to the website to see if the creators can consider releasing rights to it, and I will be sending one to the landowners to see if they could let me on the property to take a picture in case that doesn't pan out.

Since I have it in two articles, I'm pushing the FUC to the limit and thus I think it would be better if we could get a free image. Daniel Case 16:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Fine, then. If incomplete illustration is not an impediment to getting the gold star, we have a great list otherwise and we can do it. Daniel Case 14:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NHL article assessment criteria

I do mean to look at them ... I've been busier than I expected to be lately, which is not entirely a bad thing. I just finished expanding Hudson River Psychiatric Center and will be continuing upriver to the historic district soon. Daniel Case 05:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Darwin D. Martin House

The date provided by my infobox generator is the date that a structure was listed on the National Register. If the structure was later designated a National Historic Landmark, that info isn't in the NRIS database. For example, Peavey-Haglin Experimental Concrete Grain Elevator was added to the National Register of Historic Places on December 19, 1978, but not designated as a National Historic Landmark until December 21, 1981. I don't know if there's a database that lists when National Historic Landmarks were designated, but you can always look up or verify that information at the National Historic Landmarks Program - either by doing a direct search, or by downloading an entire state's lists.

As far as the Darwin D. Martin House goes, the reference number of 86000160 indicates that it was added to the National Register in 1986 (since the first two digits indicate the year). Also, the NRHP nomination refers to books published as late as 1980, so the stated date of 1975 appears to be incorrect. It could have been given some other designation, like a local historic district, in 1975. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 02:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] St George Church Photo

Yup, I did have a photo, thought I had uploaded it already. Fixed. Thanks for the reminder. dm 06:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Did you know

On 22 September 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Locust Grove (Samuel F. B. Morse House), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Allen3 ^talk 12:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chester A Arthur

Go ahead and merge the two articles, I'm sure you'll do fine. dm 11:38, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cite web and PDFlink

Hello, I noticed a citation you added to the Wake Island article. If you use {{PDFlink}} in the url field of {{cite web}}, the link gets an extra set of brackets because cite web expects a raw url, without brackets, so these citations look a little odd in the ref list. A change to use PDFlink in the title field of {{citation}} (or one of the other paper-source cite templates) seems to avoid this quirk. Since you're doing a bunch of these, I thought I should let you know. Gimmetrow 00:20, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Geneseo Historic District article

Hi Doncram,

I noticed that you created an article for the Geneseo Historic District. Thanks! Do you have any objection if I merge its information into the main Geneseo, New York article? It doesn't seem to me that the former could ever be expanded so much that it is of article length. Cheers, --bdesham ★ 16:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean to imply that the historic district and the village are the same, merely that it made very little sense for the former to have its own stub article when it could be merged into the article on the latter. Now that you've expanded the historic district article I have no problem with that article standing by itself. (Thanks for that!) By the way, I'm a Geneseo resident, and I'd be happy to take some pictures of the relevant areas—I took almost all of the photos that are currently used in the Geneseo article. I'll take a look at the list of specific areas and see what I can get. Cheers, bdesham ★ 20:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I notice that you rated

Merchants' National Bank this article a START article. What do you think/feel it needs to move beyond that classification? Carptrash 14:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] National Historic Landmarks lists

I've cleaned up a few of these lists in terms of properly displaying USN ship names, with the name italicized but the prefix and designation in plain text. I noticed that sometimes you got it right, and other times you missed it - I just wanted to point out an easier way to format these:

{{USS|Maine|ACR-1}} will produce USS Maine (ACR-1).

It's a fair bit less typing than [[USS Maine (ACR-1)|USS ''Maine'' (ACR-1)]], so if you can remember it, it's a good shortcut. Thought you might like to know! Maralia 04:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Illinois Pages

Thanks for creating so many new Illinois pages! If you would also, could you put an importance on each talk page for Illinois? I have been finding the articles in the new Illinois articles, and have been rating them as I go along. Keep up the great work!--Kranar drogin 21:25, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] National Historic District

In Old Campus District, University of South Carolina, you changed the term national historic district and said it is not a "valid term." Please give your source for this rationale. I just did a Google search and there are many websites that use the term.^[1] clariosophic 14:14, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I understand and accept what you said. I also followed the underlying link you put on historic district to Historic district (United States), which further reinforces your change. Thanks again. clariosophic 14:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cogan House Covered Bridge

Thanks for your kind words. I tweaked the sentence in question to read "It was the only bridge on Larrys Creek that survived the flood of June 1889, and one of only a handful that were left intact in the county." I actually like working on articles about creeks, the bridge is over one of the FAs I have been the main author of. I was also fortunate that there is a very nice local history article (Now and Then) on the bridge. There are five more covered bridges over creeks I am slowly working on, so I will focus on those first. Thanks again, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 17:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Historic Work

		The Working Man's Barnstar
		For plowing through the back 50 acres of the National Register of Historic Places and National Historic Landmark articles. SEWilco 18:15, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Well Deserved for the herculean effort Doncram put out. dm 02:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Beat me to it. Daniel Case 14:51, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I came by to give a barnstar for the same reason, but will simply add my endorsement. Good work. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:44, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oakland Memorial Chapel

You started this article on the 14th of October 2007 however, in its current state, it will be speedy deleted soon. The line Oakland Memorial Chapel is a site significant for its ... is left open? -- ALLSTAR ECHO 07:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes it was left open. It is a stub article but the importance of the subject is already made clear, as it is adequately supported that the site is a National Historic Landmark, hence notable. Threatening speedy deletion does not seem warranted. References are provided for the interested reader (you?) to develop the article more. I take it the unfinished sentence irritated rather than invited you, so I finished the sentence. doncram 15:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] President (steamboat)

You started this article on the 10th of October 2007 however, in its current state, it will be speedy deleted soon. The line President is a steamboat that is a National Historic Landmark. It is significant for its ... is left open? -- ALLSTAR ECHO 07:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes it was left open. It is a stub article but the importance of the subject is already made clear, as it is adequately supported that the site is a National Historic Landmark, hence notable. Threatening speedy deletion does not seem warranted. References are provided for the interested reader (you?) to develop the article more. For this one, another editor of NHL articles, Dmadeo, has somewhat developed it more. doncram 15:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name order in List of National Historic Landmarks in Maine

I posted a comment on your change at Talk:List of U.S. National Historic Landmarks by state#Order of names: "Last, First" vs "First Last". I'll be interested to carry on the conversation.
:-) -Ipoellet 16:56, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion trumped by Stub

Good point, I hadn't noticed the Expansion tag was redundant on a Stub article. (SEWilco 18:24, 19 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Nebraska

Hi Doncram, and thanks for the thoughts regarding List of National Historic Landmarks in Nebraska. I appreciate your feedback; its the first broad response I've received for any of the dozens of articles I've written on NRHP-related topics. If you're interested I would love to hear any additional thoughts on other NRHP-related articles I have written. • Freechild'sup? 04:28, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted to say thanks for the great feedback and tips you shared with me regarding NRHP articles. I have used Elkman's tool more than a dozen times since you pointed it to me, and I'm still working on the other suggestions you suggested. I really appreciate your assistance. • Freechild'sup? 07:18, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Governor John Langdon Mansion

Hi Doncram -- I'm enjoying watching all the new NRHP site articles you're putting in for New Hampshire: thank you. I've placed a merge request on Governor John Langdon Mansion, because there's a previous article about the same building entitled Governor John Langdon House. Would you mind adding your voice to the discussion (which I expect to be very slight) regarding the merge? Or, even better, do you have the tools to perform the merge yourself? Thanks. --Ken Gallager 13:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] California NHLs, and PD request

Hi! I posted a response to your comment on my talk page at User talk:Ipoellet#California NHLs, and PD request. Ipoellet 02:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Camp Topridge article

Thanks for the kind words about the article, and for fixing up my historical designation. Tell the truth, I was completely unaware of the NRHP/NHL distinction (and, now that I'm looking at it, the many other flavors of recognition), but that's one of the great things about Wikipedia-- you learn a lot researching your articles, and then still more from other users. And thanks, too, for fixing my sloppy caption on the Skylands photo.

I think I will pass, for now, joining the NHRP group-- I am living in the Adirondacks now, so my interest in Great Camps springs from that source, rather than an interest in NHRPs per se. If you are aware of any articles that need photos in this neck of the woods, though, let me know, and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks again, Mwanner | Talk 17:14, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

And thanks, too, for the kind words about my photos-- flattery will get you everywhere. As for your long list of needed photos, I will definitely work on a number of these, though for many of them, probably not as soon as you might like-- its getting cold, the leaves are pretty well gone, and my activity level definitely starts to take a hit this time of year.

That said, I'm in Saranac Lake, so some of the three dozen or so cure cottages listed here will be a piece of cake for me as soon as I can figure out where they are, and I think I know where to find that info. Other Franklin County sites and those in other nearby counties (Essex, Clinton) will be easier than the southern and western Adks. Incidentally, I see on your talk page where you've done some bulk creation of stubs for missing articles; I would definitely suggest not doing this with Saranac Lake's cure cottages-- they really should be treated in a single article-- there's just not that much to say about any one of them, but the generic topic is interesting enough. I could take a stab at this soon if I get the time.

The rest I will definitely work on over time, say by the end of next summer I should be able to get to most of them. Take care, Mwanner | Talk 20:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NRHP church articles

Thanks for the kudos. I'm not sure I understand your suggestion though. Are you saying that I shouldn't cite both [1] and [2] because they are redundant? I'd like to keep both, just in case one goes away at some point. I fixed the access dates, which I had been lazy about before. --Appraiser 16:15, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

You have obviously put a lot more thought into the referencing the nrhp than I have. Feel free to clean up any as you see fit. I don't actually refer to Elkman's infobox generator, but I do always begin by copying another similar article. For nrhp, I cite both the nris site and the nps site, which usually have the same information, but redundancy isn't bad. I often cite Archiplanet because it usually has the "date added" and the date built, then I look for at least one verbose source, such as an historical society or current tenant to give me a few sentences to write about the building. Actually, my very first step is to find a free photo; I much prefer articles with photos, especially if the subject is a building or landmark. I searched all of the files on WikiCommons looking for nrhp in Minnesota, and identified about a dozen that didn't yet have articles. Also Elkman and Jonathunder have stashes of pictures that I appropriate. If I find one on a government website, sometimes I use that. (Anything on a U.S. government website is public domain.) Also Flickr has some free photos, and of course I've taken quite a few myself. I hope you don't mind that I added a picture of that church in Alabama.--Appraiser 05:42, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Hm...Why do you think it is not in the public domain? It's clearly hosted on a U.S. govt. website. Look at the "Use of Data" section here: [3]. I think this statement applies to all govt. servers. I can ask to have the photo removed, but unless I've missed something (like a statement saying it's not PD), I think we're OK.--Appraiser 15:45, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

NPS disclaimer page has Ownership PD statement. Also, the "new search" pages [natreghome.do?searchtype=natreghome] sometimes shows that NRHP descriptions/images have been created by NPS employees. (SEWilco 00:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC))

I dropped a keystroke in your link to "NPS disclaimer page" so that it comes through. Thanks, yes, and it states that not all information in the NPS pages is public domain. doncram 01:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Stuff which is not PD is labeled, such as a picture with a "Courtesy of..." label. (SEWilco 01:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC))

Does that mean that the "photo credit" and "negative filed at"[4] makes the photo non-PD? Thanks for the link to the NPS disclaimer. Hopefully we're getting closer to the definitive answer.--Appraiser 14:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

It is implied to be non-USGov-PD because the negatives are stated as not being under the control of the NPS. If the photographer was an NPS employee that should not be the case. Also, when the photographer is an NPS employee that is often noted (although not always). Check if the site application PDF is available and see if the photographer's name happens to be the same as the person (probably an NPS employee) who filled out the application. You could also contact the organization with the negatives to check the copyright status. Or try to have the geographical coordinates on the article and put {{pictreq|in=Alabama}} on the Talk page. (SEWilco 15:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC))

The pictures of the steamboat President (pdf photos) show some photos are courtesy of another organization while some are NPS photos. The last photo has no credit so we can't use it without confirmation (although it is probably NPS photo). A more formal example is Bathhouse Row, where page 12 of the nomination form shows it was created by an NPS employee and the separate photos each have a typed description which includes mention of their being an NPS photo and that NPS has negative (and the photographer happens to also be the nominator). (SEWilco 15:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC))

Thanks for your civility too. I'm not particularly concerned about that one Gothic church in Alabama, but I'm interested in policy, protocol, and the 1000s of new articles we'll be writing until we get articles for all the nrhp (with pictures). I am however baffled by the viewpoint that a photo hosted on a U.S. govt. server with the words "public domain" attached to the specific application form isn't absolutely "PUBLIC DOMAIN". It doesn't matter who took the picture or who owns the negative. Once a "work" enters the public domain - especially digitally - it is there forever. No law change or change of custody can ever take that back. I prefer not to believe that the NPS employees are that sloppy, but that the entire application is PD. Furthermore, even if they made a mistake, any liability would clearly fall on the govt. - not on Wikipedia. Anyway, I'm not going to push the issue (about the church) any more, but going forward, I'm going to trust what those government websites say.--Appraiser 02:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

It may be overstating it to say the public domain tag is "attached" to documents that are "applications". For one, the tag is generated by a system that serves up documents, it is not visible on the face of any one of the documents to which it provides links. It may be that the field is mislabelled. Second, the documents in the system are not all applications, per se. Some of them, yes, are NHL application forms completed by owner of a site. Many are survey forms or "Inventory/Nomination" documents completed by NPS employees or by other non-owners, sometimes completed years after a site was declared a NHL. (In the case of the Prairieville church, the form was prepared by the director of the Alabama Historical Commission in May 1973, before the site was subsequently declared a NHL in November of that year, so in this case the form seemed to have functioned as a nomination.) Third, the photo sets aren't all that clearly attached to the text documents: I may have been overstating the connection by labelling the photosets as "accompanying" the texts, in my references to NRHP documents in hundreds of articles now, including St. Andrews Church (Prairieville, Alabama).

The general question is important. There are 2000 or so sets of photos that are made available through that National Register interface that puts up the "Public Domain" tag. That system covers NHLs, National Historic Sites, and perhaps other categories. I've noticed some mere NRHPs, which were perhaps candidates for NHL status that didn't make it. If the NPS has put them in public domain, we should establish that and proceed to use them. I would be wary that they could just change the system so it no longer shows public domain tag. doncram 20:05, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Incidentally, did you notice the church photos at [5]? (SEWilco 17:20, 31 October 2007 (UTC))

I did, but I don't see anything there indicating public domain. Did I miss that somewhere?--Appraiser 17:42, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

DOH! I missed that there was a link to the 8 photos. Those, as with other HABS photos, are fairly clearly public domain. There is a disclaimer that it is user's job to perform a legal analysis before reproducing, applicable to all HABS photos. We can/should go ahead and use those for this article. But none of them are as nice as the photo accompanying the NHRP document. I wish there were one good one of the church overall, with good views of the wooden flying buttresses that are visible but not featured in the 1 HABS photo of the full church, front/north view, not such a great pic. doncram 19:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I added an external link to the HABS photos from the St. Andrews Church (Prairieville, Alabama) article.

The bibliographic info states they are HABS photos (the photographer and HABS number placard in the photos help confirm that). The LOC HABS Rights page says PD except when another source is credited. (SEWilco 19:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC))

Cool. Thanks.--Appraiser 19:55, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My NHLs

My NHLs are your NHLs. Slap some paint on. (SEWilco 22:03, 28 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Robert S. Abbott House/Fort King

RE your edits to Robert S. Abbott House: I don't think "Fort King" is actually an alternate title for the place; I think it's just a mistake at the NHL site. I've had this discussion before; I'll see if I can dig up the details. Zagalejo^^^ 08:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, didn't see your comments on the talk page. Anyway, this is the discussion I mentioned. Zagalejo^^^ 08:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I've just looked through the Chicago Tribune's PDF archives going back to 1876, and I didn't find any mention of a "Fort King" in Illinois. The 43 hits either referred to the site in Florida or were cases where the words "fort" and "king" just happened to be close to each other (eg., "comfort king").

That doesn't necessarily settle things, but I think it's very likely the title is simply an error at the NHL site. Is there any way to contact them to ask? Zagalejo^^^ 08:27, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll see if I can contact them, in hopes of settling things. Nice list you have there, by the way. Glad you're so committed to this stuff. Cheers, Zagalejo^^^ 08:43, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NRHP/NHL Infoboxes

Thanks for your comment and support. I figured it was time to start making sure that all the NRHP articles have infoboxes. I'm not doing it systematically, just hit and miss. That way, eventually, they'll all get done. I'm just using the template that's accessible - that way if anyone wants to change it, they can. If there's anything else, just ask. Einbierbitte 00:10, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Priestley House assessment

I restored it to B because the only standards that matter for now are at WP:ASSESS. To me, some of those points are rather picayune ... yes, they should all be met, but remember that for now they're your proposals and haven't been consensus-approved. By the standards of most other projects I'm involved with, it's a B — well-cited, illustrated and comprehensive. You can certainly add the things you think should be in there, and they probably might make sense for an FA or even GA nom, but right now it's an excellent start (And even if you still think it doesn't rate a B, wouldn't it make sense for an article like that to be rated as start-class, not stub? Stub-class IMO should be reserved only for actual stubs or substubs marked as such.) Daniel Case 02:59, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I do think your compromise suggestion would make sense, give it one rating below rather than being so adamant about the principle of using what I regard as the basic NHL references. I suppose you could have been miffed that I knocked your rating down by 2. Likewise I am miffed you reversed my rating by 2. A compromise by either of us coulda been better. doncram 11:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup of NHL articles

Thanks for cleaning up some of those MN articles. Unfortunately the NRIS website doesn't give the NRHP "date added". So, I think putting that reference there is misleading. Actually I have had a fair amount of difficulty finding those dates. Sometimes I just put the year, based on the NRHP number, and then someone else adds the month and day. I don't know where folks are getting those.

I suppose someone using a blackberry might care about the file sizes, but it seems extraneous to me.

Concerning List of National Historic Landmarks in New York, you might consider adding GPS coordinates for each item and "GeoGroupTemplate" on the page. It's pretty cool. (Click on "map of all coordinates" in List of National Historic Landmarks in Minnesota if you haven't already.)--Appraiser 00:06, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] see Talk:‎Edgewater (Barrytown, New York)

Are you able to clarify? LessHeard vanU 21:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, did so. Responded at Talk:‎Edgewater (Barrytown, New York). doncram 03:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Los Cerritos Ranch House

What does HABS stand for in this article? Rmhermen (talk) 13:48, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Historic American Buildings Survey[6]--Appraiser (talk) 16:22, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] California NHLs, and PD request

LOL. I'm going on vacation after this week too, and my wife is going to make darn sure I don't have access to Wikipedia for the duration. You've done good work eliminating the redlinks on List of National Historic Landmarks in California. I've washed my hands of that particular list for the time being - focusing on making sure other states' lists are complete and well organized. I'm looking at List of National Historic Landmarks in Oregon as a possible FL candidate - fits neatly into both WikiProjects that I participate in, and the smaller number of NHLs makes for an easier bite to chew. But the CA list is clearly one of the gems to eventually push to FL. Enjoy your time off. Ipoellet (talk) 01:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] T. G. Richards coordinates

Well, I used Google maps to get the coordinates, as I had never seen that Infobox generator. But I think the generator is goofing on it, as it's saying 4 degrees, which is nowhere near Bellingham, or the U.S. for that matter. So, unless we can find a different "official" coordinate (I didn't know the NHRP listed coordinates), I'll just leave the one I added. Thanks for the help! Murderbike (talk) 18:02, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I've actually been doing a lot of work on the Washington list. I first started adding photos for all the locations in Bellingham (and a few for Seattle), and then just worked out a new table to hold the photos and some other information. Take a look at List of Registered Historic Places in Washington#Whatcom County and let me know what you think. Murderbike (talk) 18:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Originally I had the same table as the King County/Seattle one that User:Jmabel did, but just changed it the other night. I probably won't do TOO many of the site articles, because of other stuff I'm working on, but I'm really into the photography side of it, so am going to keep trying to add photos, and corresponding tables for places I visit. Maybe some day I'll delve deeper into the Bellingham sites, but since I'm not currently living there, it's a little tough to concentrate on. But thanks for the kind words! Murderbike (talk) 00:28, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I got carried away and went ahead and did Pickett House, since I had a good source that I was going to return to the library. Feel free to check it for mistakes or whatnot. Cheers! Murderbike (talk) 21:23, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Henry Cowell

You just moved Henry Cowell to a disambiguation page, with no discussion. That wasn't a good move, because Henry Cowell the composer is massively better known and more frequently searched for than Henry Cowell the industrialist. You should simply have created a Henry Cowell (disambiguation) page. Please move it back, then use "discussion" to build consensus before moving. Badagnani (talk) 07:24, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, how are you doing? I see you're doing good work on these subjects. The way I know it was changed is because, some time ago, I clicked "watch" at the top of the Henry Cowell article. That tab is on the right of every page at Wikipedia. Then you click "my watchlist," which is just above that to see all the pages you care about, and what is being edited on them. Regarding Henry Cowell the composer, I've contributed to that page, and have also contributed to the Henry Cowell Redwoods page, as about a year ago I got confused, thinking they might be the same person (because Henry Cowell was also from northern California. I'm sure the composer is more famous than the long-dead industrialist. He was among the most important and influential American composers of the 20th century. Badagnani (talk) 07:44, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

The only time we'd have Henry Cowell be a disambiguation page is if there were no primary meaning of this name. Otherwise, the disambiguation page would be called Henry Cowell (disambiguation). Badagnani (talk) 07:46, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I didn't think the industrialist was significant enough to have his own page, since there was already a link to his biography in the Redwoods Park page named after him. Badagnani (talk) 07:55, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, we already had a dab at Henry Cowell (musician)#See also. Badagnani (talk) 07:56, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flat Rock

I'm puzzled. I've been working on the Great Camp articles. Flat Rock Camp is listed in our articles as part of the MPS (see last pg), but so far as I can see, it's not; rather it comes up as an individual listing. And is there, somewhere, a nice text treatment of the individual nominations like the nice multi-page MPS nominations? I can find essentially nothing about Flat Rock-- the two Great Camp books I'm using fail to mention it at all.

BTW, I have done the Cure Cottages of Saranac Lake article, with lotsa photos. I'll try to get to the great camp photos in the spring (but notice the nice S R Stoddard of Echo Camp-- too bad there aren't a lot more like that around). Cheers!-- Mwanner | Talk 18:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Followup-- the list in Great Camps omitted Topridge, and spuriously included Flatrock; I have fixed it here. -- Mwanner | Talk 20:12, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info on emailing for NRHPs docs-- you'd think it would be a whole lot easier for them to put them online. Anyway, the fact that one can only get them via snail-mail means I'm going to have to put it off 'til March, 'cause I'm off to Florida for three months of tent-camping, no mail, and hardly any computer access. Till then, enjoy! -- Mwanner | Talk 17:19, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Syracuse area historic places

Your welcome for the help with those articles. I do have to give credit where credit is due though. I created the initial article List of Syracuse University buildings because I was in the process of creating Template:Syracuse University and saw the need for the article. I hadn't put the list of building in the article at that point yet, when I was ready to add them, I discovered an annon user beat me to it. As for the pictures, I did not add them to wikipedia, they were already in the Syracuse University article. Since they were all public domain, I created a page on the wikicommons, Syracuse University, and started transferring all the pictures there that were public domain. When you created the articles on Crouse College, Syracuse University and Hall of Languages, Syracuse University, I saw the need for the images, so I went to the commons and retrieved them for the article. I am glad that these contributions were useful. I will continue to do what I can for the SU articles on wikipedia, including retrieving images. I will be returning to 'cuse in January, so I will attempt to take the pictures you requested then, and many more of places around the campus. This includes the Psi Upsilon fraternity. Its actually located right outside where I have classes. The buildings list is going to need a lot of work, to bring up to par with other building lists. (See the articles talk page for more information I wrote about it). I agree with you about the Syracuse Project. Hopefully, this latest set of contributions stirs some activity from users on their wikiproject. Anyway, thanks again for the message, if you have any other requests of me, feel free to ask. I also like contributing to wikipedia as much as I can. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 18:17, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

• As an additional note, did you see that Syracuse University has made the University Collaboration of a Fortnight. That should steer some people that direction. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 18:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Sounds good. I've updated the Su template to include that article. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 19:08, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Your comment

Alright, that wasn't clear to me as a non-American, and I'm guessing it may not be to others like me as well. But I do not have particularly strong feelings one way or the other. Perhaps you can start up a discussion on the article's talk page? Feel free to revert my move if you please, by the way. Lilac Soul ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 19:29, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rice Hall

It has been suggested that Rice Hall be merged with Cornell University. Feel free to weigh in with your opinion on the talk page. Thanks. Truthanado (talk) 22:13, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info about the 4 NRHPs at Carleton College. I will remove the merge request. I would like to request that you add a Historic sites section to Cornell University that directs the reader to the campus's NRHPs (Rice Hall is the first), similar to the section at Carlton College. Thanks again. Truthanado (talk) 22:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

The Historic sites section is a very nice addition to the Cornell University article. Well done. Truthanado (talk) 23:57, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sleeping Giant

Thanks for the added content about the tower & for picking up on the typos. I was wondering about the lengthy dead link regarding the Connecticut work program. Is that an article you are working on now? If not, I was thinking that it might be better to remove the brackets and let it stand as simple text. --Pgagnon999 (talk) 21:14, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Katherine Schipper

A tag has been placed on Katherine Schipper requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 23:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I still don't see the notability. Mere memebership in this "hall of fame," nor being its first female member, does not confer notability. I also question the notability of the Accounting Hall of Fame article itself, as it appears to be little more than a colloection of red links. I will propose it for deletion as well. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 00:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Outcome was the article was KEPT. doncram (talk) 07:11, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Accounting Hall of Fame

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Accounting Hall of Fame, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add {{db-author}} to the top of Accounting Hall of Fame. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 00:08, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I removed that dated prod tag, with explanation on the article's talk page, and then it went to Articles for Deletion for arbitration or whatever. doncram (talk) 02:10, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Outcome was the article was KEPT

[edit] AfD nomination of Accounting Hall of Fame

I have nominated Accounting Hall of Fame, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Accounting Hall of Fame. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 08:43, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, well, I have edited the article, and others have chimed in that it is worthy of keeping. We shall see, i suppose. doncram (talk) 02:11, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Outcome was that article was KEPT doncram (talk) 07:12, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Red links

A tag has been placed on Red links, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template {{hangon}} to the article and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Blanchardb-^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}-timed 01:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

As for your question, the answer is here. --Blanchardb-^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}-timed 01:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, sort of. Of course the article Red links was nonsense, and/or was to be deleted. Someone else created the link to it, i just went ahead and said something in the article, asking a question, which the reply did not exactly answer anyhow. doncram (talk) 02:12, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New NHSR article in Connecticut

Just wanted to give you the heads up: there's a new National Historic Register article Peter's Rock posted; I just finished editing it into shape. You may wish to compliment it the way you did with Sleeping Giant. --Pgagnon999 (talk) 15:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I was concerned that the source was a little shaky; figured that you'd be the one to pick up on it if it was. I'll remove it. Thanks for the compliment; I"ve been working hard (too hard) on getting the various summits of the Metacomet Ridge up to date. --Pgagnon999 (talk) 16:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. ..but you forgot to include the link. --Pgagnon999 (talk) 16:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Old Quaker Meetinghouse

Hiya :)

I've posted on Talk:Old Quaker Meetinghouse that I think the page should be moved to Old Quaker Meeting House. As you moved the previous one to the current one, I thought you might want to know.

Thanks very much, Drum guy (talk) 15:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Grahamsville Historic District

Yeah, 5 buildings and 20 acres makes a lot more sense given the area. I couldn't see how they could get to 200 without including the school (doozy of a DYK coming up on that one).

So you've been able to view the Register apps at ORPHP? Everytime I try it tells me to update JavaScript, and I always just chalk it up to NY getting too funky with its site development. Daniel Case (talk) 03:36, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, hey ... it's working now. Thanks for the additions! Daniel Case (talk) 03:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Typo redirect Farmers and Merchants Union Bank (Columbia, Wisconsin)

Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on Farmers and Merchants Union Bank (Columbia, Wisconsin), by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because Farmers and Merchants Union Bank (Columbia, Wisconsin) is a redirect page resulting from an implausible typo (CSD R3).

To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Farmers and Merchants Union Bank (Columbia, Wisconsin), please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. To see the user who deleted the page, click here CSDWarnBot (talk) 06:00, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the warm welcome

One of the pages you started, on the John Trumbull Birthplace, got me started to begin with. I'd become fascinated with the Connecticut Governor Jonathan Trumbull and decided to visit his house after finding your page. I took a look at the List of National Historic Landmarks in New York page, and there are definitely some places, like Saratoga Spa State Park and St. Paul's Episcopal, that I could snap photos of. However, I'm still unclear which New York NHLs classify for the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cg-realms (talk • contribs) 20:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome

Hello Doncram/Archive 2, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• The Five Pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! Y0u (Y0ur talk page) (Y0ur contributions) 16:15, July 20, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Kinneloa Mesa, California

I fixed everything myself before noticing that you had asked the question of how to fix it on the talk page of Talk:Kinneloa mesa. Deletes are rarely necessary - as I did, redirects are all that is necessary. To redirect, use this code for example:

#REDIRECT [[Kinneloa Mesa]]

If the location to which you want to move the article does not yet exist, then you can use the 'move' tab button at the top of the page. That will automatically create a redirect from the old page to the new one. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask on my talk page! --_└ ^Smith120bh/_TALK ^┐ 04:32, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Westhill High School

Nope, problem 2 wasn't me. But I did just fix problem 1. I requested a speedy deletion of the Connecticut page (by inserting {{db-reason|So that another page can be moved in}} to the top of the page), an admin then deleted it, and I moved the CT page over. --_└ ^Smith120bh/_TALK ^┐ 18:10, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your NY NHL work!

I see you've been creating some of those articles we didn't have. Especially Riverby ... now all I have to do is worry about getting up there to take a picture one of these days. Keep up the good work! Daniel Case 08:08, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Two tips: Use {{cite web}} or the [URL Title or other info about the page] syntax for any web links you want to add as references so the URLs themselves don't clutter up the page. And use {{PDFlink}} for links to PDFs.

Also, don't use other Wikipedia articles as sources and don't use the article space to discuss issues with the article. I solved that by redirectifying Dutch Reformed Church (Tarrytown, New York) to Old Dutch Church of Sleepy Hollow when I confirmed via the NPS NHL writeup that they were the same building. But that solution isn't always available, so keep discussion on the talk page.

And BTW, it's "Adirondack Park" because that's the term used in the state statutes defining it (ECL 9-0101(1)) and by many many mapmakers. It's thus official and in wide use to boot. The article itself explains why that term is used. Daniel Case 03:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Continuing advice: Don't assume the separate RHP cats for counties exist unless you already know they do (like the one I created for Orange County, which is currently the only separate county one). Stick with "Registered Historic Places in New York" and just put the county cat last (and speaking of which, Hyde Park is in Dutchess County, not Westchester). Daniel Case 03:54, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

And all RHPs in New York City should be put in "Registered Historic Places in New York City" until we start subdividing them by borough (it's always "Brooklyn", never "Kings County, New York" and ditto for the other four). Daniel Case 03:56, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

There is a category "Registered Historic Places in Manhattan" dm 04:39, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

There are no state subcategories for National Historic Landmarks yet (BTW, I finally split off Arden (estate) into a separate article, although I think I may have to rename it again). There probably should be as Cat:National Historic Landmarks of the United States has a potential size of 2,000+ articles (way too big), but this needs to be discussed at the WP:NRHP talk page since the category is currently added automatically when "nhl" or "nhld" is entered as the value for nrhp_type in the infobox. Thus there would be issues in creating a subcat for states (or even New York City, which could certainly support one) without modifying the infobox code (I bet it would be possible to have it read from the location fields and add to a subcat automatically, but I'm not that skilled with template syntax). Daniel Case 16:35, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Another tip: NHLs that are historic district take the "nhld" value for nrhp_type.

Also, seeing where you're going with these stubs you're writing, do you think you could hold off on Old Blenheim Bridge? It would take the bridge infobox instead of NRHP and come under that project as well. Daniel Case 20:24, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi, when you're going through the NRHP's, if the various NHL documents are already used as references, there's no need to put them in External links. In fact, even if you find something new, it's probably better to put them in as references, rather than external links. IMHO. Thanks for your work though, When I finished off all the NHL's in Manhattan, I lost some steam for a while. It's been building back up now that it's getting cooler :) dm 04:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Also, are you removing references like <ref>{{Nrhp source1|NY|New+York|state2}}</ref> on purpose? If so, why? I noticed you did it on Central Synagogue as well as one other entry. Thanks Daniel Case 00:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this is me, the four ~ should have left my name there :( You're trying to figure out which reference should be used to document which fact. I was just trying to get all of the references I could in there. They often cover much of the same material, but I tried to make sure they didnt stack up as [1][2][3][4], etc. I love the Nomination PDF's you're finding by the way, excellent references to add. Daniel Case 00:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC) (dm)

Perrine's Bridge is actually the closest covered bridge to me, but someone else already shot it. Other than that, there are a few in the Catskills — Beaverkill, Turnwood — that I might be able to cover if and when I get up there to go hiking again (I've been introducing my son to the joys of hiking, but he's been partial to the (closer to us) Hudson Highlands so far). Old Blenheim would be quite a stretch ... I'll keep an eye on Flickr.

I have pictures coming soon of Vassar College Observatory, Old Main and Locust Grove.

I moved Hudson River Heritage Historic District to Hudson River Historic District ... that's the official name. I think the state likes the "Heritage" bit. I had been planning to create that only when I got the right picture, which would be a challenge ... hopefully from Staatsburg or Rhinecliff, with the cross-river view (much better in morning light) and maybe some buildings in front. That would illustrate it best. I'm glad you didn't put in a map because it's a very large district. I might create one later from the description in the application. Daniel Case 00:55, 12 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel Case (talk • contribs) 00:53, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

In general, infobox names should match article titles IMO. It creates some confusion with the reader otherwise. I have been adding "State Historic Site" where relevant for a long time: Washington's Headquarters State Historic Site, where it's as important that the state made it the first-ever state historic site in the country as it is that Washington slept there, for instance. You can't always go by the names the NPS uses, as the project has recognized ... Slabsides is always going to remain that way; no one calls it "John Burroughs Cabin" and we wouldn't use that in the infobox. The federal naming system also omits the "National Historic Site" on a number of sites so designated.

The register number is all the connection to the official system we need, IMO, and it's right there in the infobox.

I'll leave John Jay's home the way you did it until I get a picture (I had one but the memory card with it and I lost everything on it). Daniel Case 02:40, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Update to that: I was back in the area last weekend and got it, plus a contemporary one for the Elephant Hotel. They have snow on them, which actually improves on what I would have gotten in summertime and makes them look all Currier & Ives-y. It will take my usual eternity to add them, unless you want them earlier. Daniel Case (talk) 06:07, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

The more that I think about it, I can see your point re: State Historic Site in the infobox, it's sort of superfluous (though for now I'm not changing some of the local ones that have it).

I guess we need a line in the infobox where we can tell people how it's listed if the name commonly used is not the one in the NRHP data base. The bridge infobox is set up that way ... sort of to accomodate situations like the one that used to prevail with Cabin John Bridge (read the article it redirects to).

In that direction, I have some interesting issues coming up with U.S. Post Office (Wappingers Falls, New York) and Gardiner School. Both of them are now used and commonly known as their communities' municipal buildings. I can't very well put "U.S. Post Office" in the infobox for the former, can I? Because Wappingers Falls has a new post office a few blocks away.

Maybe I'll raise this over at the project talk page. Daniel Case 03:29, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

As far as the pictures go, I think there may be some issue with the Commons servers. I've seen it on other articles. Daniel Case 03:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Poughkeepsie

You created some of those Poughkeepsie NHL article just in the nick of time. I had pictures ready to upload, and did. I did some research and made Locust Grove into a real article (Take a look! It only took an hour to put together). I also put in a contemporary pic of Main Building (Vassar College) (after a brief flirtation naming it Old Main, a Google check found that the college calls it Main Building and it gets a lot more Google hits ... "Old Main" is used more widely for the 1907 building at SUNY New Paltz, which really ought to be on the National Register itself) and I might expand the article later with info from Vassar's online encylopedia (yes, it would be a reliable source). You may also want to add some of your external links to Vassar College Observatory, which I changed to the NRHP infobox as it's a defunct observatory.

You may notice, also, that I insisted on "Locust Grove" in the infobox title. That's what the state puts on signs, and what the big sign at the traffic light on Route 9 says. I think we'll just have to create a "listed_as" parameter in the infobox for these situations ... I'll try to get a discussion going to get consensus at the project talk page.

Some further notes:

• Be careful to distinguish between cities/villages and towns in New York where they both have the same name. Linking to Poughkeepsie, New York just gets you to the disambiguation page (Almost all of Poughkeepsie's NHLs are located outside of the city, in the town).

• Go check the RHP lists for each county and update the name there if you rename something.

Keep going! Glad that you're doing what you're doing! Saved me a little work today.

Daniel Case 17:40, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

P.S. I think I can get Locust Grove into DYK, as "...that Locust Grove was the first Hudson Valley estate to be designated a National Historic Landmark"? Daniel Case 17:40, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, what you're thinking of could probably best be accomplished with a navbox: something like "Hudson Valley Landmarks" (I've designed some for the fashion project: {{lingerie}}, {{hosiery}} and {{cosmetics}} (a very different side of me, hmm?). All reflect my philosophy that navboxes should have a picture where possible). But I'd rather not design one until all the articles in it were not redlinked ... I'm not sure if we're at that point yet).

To get a photo out of a .PDF (I'm assuming you're using Acrobat Reader): There should be a selection box tool on the toolbar. Select the image (you have to be careful, because unlike most programs if you make an error you can't adjust it afterwards), then choose Copy or hit Ctrl-C, then open up the imaging program of your choice, create a new file and paste it in, then edit to taste (This is my favorite way of getting around images you can't download directly from webpages ... print the page to PDF and then do this). I got this image from this PDF that way. That, however, had to be saved as a .png; for some reason PDF cuts won't make good .JPGs.

I'll take a look at that recipe. Right now, since I've reached a point in my photo backlog that corresponds to a time when I wasn't taking many photos last month because I was sick for a week, I think I'll take a break from NRHP for a few days and work on some other things — schools I need to fix up, a road article I've been planning for some time, and such.

Also, that day's images were the last of my most recent multiple NHL image hauls. I have maybe three more pictures left from my August file that are intended for articles (and only one is an RHP). Perhaps, though, this weekend I can go down with my son to the Westchester side of the Hudson south of Croton and get not only some of the Metro-North stations down that way but some of the NHLs we don't have yet from that area (Draper House, Armour-Stiner, Van Cortlandt Manor, I think) as well as Route 9 at the NY 448 junction (Old Dutch Church) where there are literally four separate signs telling you to turn left to stay on Route 9 ... I've been wanting that one for U.S. Route 9 in New York for a long time, almost as much as a picture of the cul-de-sac at the end of the highway near the Canadian border.

And maybe next weekend he and I can take that trip up to Rhinecliff I've been promising him (he's a train junkie, and he would like to see the Amtrak station) and get NHLs up there: Top Cottage, Montgomery Place, plus a river-and-landscape pic for the historic district (I suppose I could use one I have from Rhinecliff, but I was shooting into the sun as it was late in the day. You need to take that one early in the morning). And tons of RHPs in the Rhinebeck and Hyde Park areas, and (I hope) Hudson River Psychiatric Center, although it would be necessary to trespass a bit for a reasonably good image of that one. Fall is just around the corner ... there aren't too many good days for outdoor photography with green leaves left.

I see you went and created a separate Springside (Matthew Vassar Estate) article ... the last of the POK NHLs, and the only one inside the city. Now I'll have to get up there and shoot it (It's very easy to get to, but you have to park and walk the trails).

Update: this picture is now up in both the article and the NHL list. I will probably take some time to expand the article as I've done for most of the other NHLs. Daniel Case 16:00, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

But did Downing design the landscaping? The site brochure says that Frederick Law Olmsted did that (it would make more sense). sorry about confusing Jackson Downing and Jackson Davis ... I'll go reverse that.

BTW, I was two out of three on shooting those Westchester NHLs this weekend. I will be uploading pics of the Draper House and the Armour-Stiner House when I get to them (i.e., don't hold your breath). I also separately got a picture of a good remaining section of Delaware and Hudson Canal, which I see you also started (I'm going to move much of the canal section from Delaware and Hudson Railroad and leave a hatnoted summary behind).

Thanks, BTW, for including a description of the Armour-Stiner House in that article. I could probably have figured which one it was from the numbers on the other houses, but it (unusual for NY) has no historical marker, no number on the road and is screened slightly by a hedge in front. But remebering "octagonal" and "domed" made a big difference. Daniel Case 17:24, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

As I said, I confused Alexander Jackson Davis and Andrew Jackson Downing ... who both have key ties to Newburgh. But Downing as having only one extant structure makes sense, as he is mainly known for mentoring both Vaux and Olmsted and the books he wrote. Then he died tragically in his late 40s. Daniel Case 19:27, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Locust Grove DYK

You're welcome! Yes, I will put it on the project page ... I've been delinquent in doing that. Daniel Case 16:30, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] October update

I was able to take that other trip up to Rhinecliff with my son and get most of the images I wanted, including one for the Hudson River Historic District that meets the criteria I set for myself (It's great ... the Catskill Escarpment and Kaaterskill High Peak hazed blue across the river, whitecaps on the river itself, and brush from the backyard I was shooting from in the sides. It feels like a Hudson River School painting). I also got Top Cottage, Springside (actually, the cottage itself no longer exists, just its foundations) and the psych center. Montgomery Place remains; Tivoli was a little further north than we were willing to go). And a few regular old RHPs.

I have uploaded the HRHD image now and added it to the article and the NHL list. Neat, huh? As with the other NHL articles I will be expanding it based on the stuff in the PDF (or at least what I could read of it ... it seems to time out after the first fifteen or so pages). After that there will be a Rhinecliff RHP, then Top Cottage and I am finally done with my September photos. Daniel Case (talk) 18:25, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, no one deserves a break from Wikipedia and the NRHP project more than you do. Heading to Syracuse? As an SU alum, I would suggest two great RHPs to photograph on campus: the Hall of Languages (that Second Empire building you see coming up University Avenue toward campus) and Crouse College (the Gothic church-like building not too far to the west). In case you don't know which buildings they are. They're the campuses only two RHPS (so far). If you have the time to head out of Syracuse for NHL photos, closest would probably be the Harriet Tubman-related ones located in Auburn, then Morill Hall down at Cornell and maybe Utica Psychiatric Center or the Oneida Community.

Read that Montana Standard article ... very interesting. It looks like we can claim the HRHD is the largest actual NHLD/HD in the lower 48. While Butte-Anaconda is the largest by number of resources, HRHD definitely has it beat by total area. I'm not surprised they got that wrong ... the HRHD is not very well-known even within the region (there are no signs telling you you've entered it) and I've learned the NPS people don't even know these things cold either. Perhaps I should drop the reporter an email ... maybe they could and should do a followup story. I definitely see a DYK coming out of this.

After Top Cottage, I have no new images of unphotographed NY NHLs coming, although the interior photos of Slabsides are in the pipeline. However, in October when my son and I went to Scranton for the Office convention, I was able to get the lesser-known of that city's pair of NHLs, the Terence Powderly House (PA has a marker nearby but unless you know the address you wouldn't know which house to photograph) and then Grey Towers, Gifford Pinchot's estate near Milford, on the way back. So I can improve the PA list some more. Daniel Case (talk) 05:31, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I also see you've been developing the state NHL list into something like the other states. If you don't mind my ruining your day slightly, can I strongly suggest we develop a separate list for the NYC ones? It's going to be a very long list, and given that the city has more than quite a few states combined, I think this would make lots of sense.

Looks like we did it. Going through them, BTW, I noticed that for the Geneseo Historic District you had created two infoboxes, one for the original designation and another for the boundary increase. I think we decided a long time ago in the project that separate articles were certainly not necessary even if they had separate NRIS numbers. It makes more sense to try to put that in the infobox (see how I did it at Church Park Historic District). For the list I put in a picture I found in the main Geneseo, New York article, which has a nice little section about the historic district. We ought to use it in the article as well (althoutgh, ideally, I'd love to go all the way up to Geneseo (and FTM Western New York as a whole) and take some pictures of all the out-of-the-way NHLs. But given that my in-laws moved to North Carolina last year, I have less reason to do that.

This weekend, BTW, I am hoping to get up to Slabsides and take a picture of the cabin interior (since today is one of the two days a year it's open) as well as Riverby and maybe some of the RHPs along US 9W. Daniel Case 14:57, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Also, you don't need to manually add Cat:National Historic Landmarks of the United States to any article with the NRHP infobox; the "nhl" or "nhld" values take care of it automatically.

(I'm also mildly amused that you created Boston Post Road Historic District ... I passed through that section of US 1 a month ago and, other than being pleasantly woodsy, it's not all that photogenic). Daniel Case 16:29, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, OK, it's about the houses in the adjoining neighborhood. I thought it might well have to do with that, but given the BPR's historic importance I figured it was just a way of recognizing a section of US 1 as inheriting the legacy (Similarly, there's a section of US 9 in Putnam County just north of the Westchester line recognized as the "Albany Post Road Historic District".

[edit] Armour-Stiner House

Yes I did. As it happens I'm getting near it in my photo-processing queue ... hope to have that up by the end of the weekend (I'll add that to the octagon house list).

Speaking of NHLs, the very next photo I'm doing (not now, alas) is the Delaware and Hudson Canal ... I'll be transferring the text from the railroad article over with that one, too, and summarizing it at the railroad article. That pic will also, of course, be added to the NY NHL list.

I have added the pictures now. Daniel Case 23:02, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The reason I am not about to do it right now is that I'm headed down to Croton-on-Hudson with my son for Metro-North open house. Hopefully I might be able to get a Van Cortlandt Manor pic there, too (it's nearby, but I don't know how realistic walking there would be as we are taking the train and not driving). Daniel Case 14:51, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Update: This may not come as quickly as I had thought. After adding the picture, I have decided to expand Delaware and Hudson Canal; it's taking more than I thought it would. But I will get to the other images, hopefully before the end of the week. Daniel Case 04:21, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Done. Both the Draper House and the Armour-Stiner House images are now where you requested them. Daniel Case 08:06, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Featured list status

I've always thought that was something to shoot for for that one. And I think we've got a great list. However, I am not sure if missing some images would count against it ... I have yet to take some otherwise excellent articles I've been the prime developer on to FAC because I feel that they need one or two more images. I know there are those who won't count it against a nom, but it would be a good time to review previous FLs and current FLCs to get a good idea of what reviewers will be looking for.

Shame there isn't a list equivalent yet for Good Articles. Should be, though.

Update: I will be getting pics up for Springside, Hudson River Psych Center, Hudson River Historic District and Top Cottage soon. Daniel Case 14:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Update to the update: I decided, for the Psych Center, to go with an actual picture of the Main Building I found on a website under an not-reasonably replaceable fair-use claim (since the Main Building is not located where it can be photographed from public roads and the property is currently closed to the public, although trespassing would be easy enough as the image creators indeed did, I consider it unreasonable to expect that it can be replaced by a free image). I do have an email in to the website to see if the creators can consider releasing rights to it, and I will be sending one to the landowners to see if they could let me on the property to take a picture in case that doesn't pan out.

Since I have it in two articles, I'm pushing the FUC to the limit and thus I think it would be better if we could get a free image. Daniel Case 16:45, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Fine, then. If incomplete illustration is not an impediment to getting the gold star, we have a great list otherwise and we can do it. Daniel Case 14:45, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Peer review

I have been looking in on it; seems to be going/went OK. My printer is back up and running so I will, per your original request, print out a copy and proof it.

Sorry to take so long; I have finally gotten through uploading my pics from last October and I can catch my breath (November produced less pics as fall was finally kicking in and it didn't look as scenic).

With the peer review mostly done, what's the next step? I don't think lists get submitted to GA. Will we go for FL? Daniel Case (talk) 04:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NHL article assessment criteria

I do mean to look at them ... I've been busier than I expected to be lately, which is not entirely a bad thing. I just finished expanding Hudson River Psychiatric Center and will be continuing upriver to the historic district soon. Daniel Case 05:57, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Riverby and the list

When I was at Slabsides, I learned from the Burroughs Association people there that the Riverby property:

• is not open to the public, and
• nor is the study visible from Route 9W

I know where the entrance is, and I will have to see if I can ask the landowners themselves for a photo op. Apparently the study isn't doing too well, as the property has been split further over the years by various Burroughs descendants and responsibility for it is unclear (and it's not something open to the public, so why keep it up I guess?)

You've been doing a great job on the list, especially in getting those HABS photos in. I have newer pictures of the Elephant Hotel (showing that column out front, which the HABS ones don't) and John Jay home coming. Do you want me to just review the list or the articles themselves as well? I can't print anything out at the moment (well, at least not at home), so copyediting is hampered.

Speaking of which also, congrats to Ruhrfisch on getting Joseph Priestley House to FA. In the vein of PA NHLs, as part of the pictures I took on my trip with my son to Scranton the last weekend in October for the The Office convention, I will creating articles about some of the RHPs there (including the old Delaware and Lackawanna station that's now the Radisson where, in the show, "Dwight's Speech" was given. Should make an interesting DYK). I got pics of two PA NHLs ... the Terence Powderly House (thank God for the Register giving the address! The historical marker nearby is deliberately coy about which house it was) and Grey Towers in Milford. So the PA list will be looking a little better soon, too. Daniel Case (talk) 02:24, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Darwin D. Martin House

The date provided by my infobox generator is the date that a structure was listed on the National Register. If the structure was later designated a National Historic Landmark, that info isn't in the NRIS database. For example, Peavey-Haglin Experimental Concrete Grain Elevator was added to the National Register of Historic Places on December 19, 1978, but not designated as a National Historic Landmark until December 21, 1981. I don't know if there's a database that lists when National Historic Landmarks were designated, but you can always look up or verify that information at the National Historic Landmarks Program - either by doing a direct search, or by downloading an entire state's lists.

As far as the Darwin D. Martin House goes, the reference number of 86000160 indicates that it was added to the National Register in 1986 (since the first two digits indicate the year). Also, the NRHP nomination refers to books published as late as 1980, so the stated date of 1975 appears to be incorrect. It could have been given some other designation, like a local historic district, in 1975. --Elkman ^(Elkspeak) 02:47, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] St George Church Photo

Yup, I did have a photo, thought I had uploaded it already. Fixed. Thanks for the reminder. dm 06:23, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Did you know

On 22 September 2007, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Locust Grove (Samuel F. B. Morse House), which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Allen3 ^talk 12:29, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chester A Arthur

Go ahead and merge the two articles, I'm sure you'll do fine. dm 11:38, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cite web and PDFlink

Hello, I noticed a citation you added to the Wake Island article. If you use {{PDFlink}} in the url field of {{cite web}}, the link gets an extra set of brackets because cite web expects a raw url, without brackets, so these citations look a little odd in the ref list. A change to use PDFlink in the title field of {{citation}} (or one of the other paper-source cite templates) seems to avoid this quirk. Since you're doing a bunch of these, I thought I should let you know. Gimmetrow 00:20, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Geneseo Historic District article

Hi Doncram,

I noticed that you created an article for the Geneseo Historic District. Thanks! Do you have any objection if I merge its information into the main Geneseo, New York article? It doesn't seem to me that the former could ever be expanded so much that it is of article length. Cheers, --bdesham ★ 16:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I didn't mean to imply that the historic district and the village are the same, merely that it made very little sense for the former to have its own stub article when it could be merged into the article on the latter. Now that you've expanded the historic district article I have no problem with that article standing by itself. (Thanks for that!) By the way, I'm a Geneseo resident, and I'd be happy to take some pictures of the relevant areas—I took almost all of the photos that are currently used in the Geneseo article. I'll take a look at the list of specific areas and see what I can get. Cheers, bdesham ★ 20:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I notice that you rated

Merchants' National Bank this article a START article. What do you think/feel it needs to move beyond that classification? Carptrash 14:48, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] National Historic Landmarks lists

I've cleaned up a few of these lists in terms of properly displaying USN ship names, with the name italicized but the prefix and designation in plain text. I noticed that sometimes you got it right, and other times you missed it - I just wanted to point out an easier way to format these:

{{USS|Maine|ACR-1}} will produce USS Maine (ACR-1).

It's a fair bit less typing than [[USS Maine (ACR-1)|USS ''Maine'' (ACR-1)]], so if you can remember it, it's a good shortcut. Thought you might like to know! Maralia 04:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Illinois Pages

Thanks for creating so many new Illinois pages! If you would also, could you put an importance on each talk page for Illinois? I have been finding the articles in the new Illinois articles, and have been rating them as I go along. Keep up the great work!--Kranar drogin 21:25, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] National Historic District

In Old Campus District, University of South Carolina, you changed the term national historic district and said it is not a "valid term." Please give your source for this rationale. I just did a Google search and there are many websites that use the term.^[2] clariosophic 14:14, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I understand and accept what you said. I also followed the underlying link you put on historic district to Historic district (United States), which further reinforces your change. Thanks again. clariosophic 14:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cogan House Covered Bridge

Thanks for your kind words. I tweaked the sentence in question to read "It was the only bridge on Larrys Creek that survived the flood of June 1889, and one of only a handful that were left intact in the county." I actually like working on articles about creeks, the bridge is over one of the FAs I have been the main author of. I was also fortunate that there is a very nice local history article (Now and Then) on the bridge. There are five more covered bridges over creeks I am slowly working on, so I will focus on those first. Thanks again, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 17:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Historic Work

		The Working Man's Barnstar
		For plowing through the back 50 acres of the National Register of Historic Places and National Historic Landmark articles. SEWilco 18:15, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Well Deserved for the herculean effort Doncram put out. dm 02:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Beat me to it. Daniel Case 14:51, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

I came by to give a barnstar for the same reason, but will simply add my endorsement. Good work. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:44, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Oakland Memorial Chapel

You started this article on the 14th of October 2007 however, in its current state, it will be speedy deleted soon. The line Oakland Memorial Chapel is a site significant for its ... is left open? -- ALLSTAR ECHO 07:39, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes it was left open. It is a stub article but the importance of the subject is already made clear, as it is adequately supported that the site is a National Historic Landmark, hence notable. Threatening speedy deletion does not seem warranted. References are provided for the interested reader (you?) to develop the article more. I take it the unfinished sentence irritated rather than invited you, so I finished the sentence. doncram 15:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] President (steamboat)

You started this article on the 10th of October 2007 however, in its current state, it will be speedy deleted soon. The line President is a steamboat that is a National Historic Landmark. It is significant for its ... is left open? -- ALLSTAR ECHO 07:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes it was left open. It is a stub article but the importance of the subject is already made clear, as it is adequately supported that the site is a National Historic Landmark, hence notable. Threatening speedy deletion does not seem warranted. References are provided for the interested reader (you?) to develop the article more. For this one, another editor of NHL articles, Dmadeo, has somewhat developed it more. doncram 15:42, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name order in List of National Historic Landmarks in Maine

I posted a comment on your change at Talk:List of U.S. National Historic Landmarks by state#Order of names: "Last, First" vs "First Last". I'll be interested to carry on the conversation.
:-) -Ipoellet 16:56, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion trumped by Stub

Good point, I hadn't noticed the Expansion tag was redundant on a Stub article. (SEWilco 18:24, 19 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Nebraska

Hi Doncram, and thanks for the thoughts regarding List of National Historic Landmarks in Nebraska. I appreciate your feedback; its the first broad response I've received for any of the dozens of articles I've written on NRHP-related topics. If you're interested I would love to hear any additional thoughts on other NRHP-related articles I have written. • Freechild'sup? 04:28, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Just wanted to say thanks for the great feedback and tips you shared with me regarding NRHP articles. I have used Elkman's tool more than a dozen times since you pointed it to me, and I'm still working on the other suggestions you suggested. I really appreciate your assistance. • Freechild'sup? 07:18, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Governor John Langdon Mansion

Hi Doncram -- I'm enjoying watching all the new NRHP site articles you're putting in for New Hampshire: thank you. I've placed a merge request on Governor John Langdon Mansion, because there's a previous article about the same building entitled Governor John Langdon House. Would you mind adding your voice to the discussion (which I expect to be very slight) regarding the merge? Or, even better, do you have the tools to perform the merge yourself? Thanks. --Ken Gallager 13:19, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] California NHLs, and PD request

Hi! I posted a response to your comment on my talk page at User talk:Ipoellet#California NHLs, and PD request. Ipoellet 02:12, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Camp Topridge article

Thanks for the kind words about the article, and for fixing up my historical designation. Tell the truth, I was completely unaware of the NRHP/NHL distinction (and, now that I'm looking at it, the many other flavors of recognition), but that's one of the great things about Wikipedia-- you learn a lot researching your articles, and then still more from other users. And thanks, too, for fixing my sloppy caption on the Skylands photo.

I think I will pass, for now, joining the NHRP group-- I am living in the Adirondacks now, so my interest in Great Camps springs from that source, rather than an interest in NHRPs per se. If you are aware of any articles that need photos in this neck of the woods, though, let me know, and I'll see what I can do.

Thanks again, Mwanner | Talk 17:14, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

And thanks, too, for the kind words about my photos-- flattery will get you everywhere. As for your long list of needed photos, I will definitely work on a number of these, though for many of them, probably not as soon as you might like-- its getting cold, the leaves are pretty well gone, and my activity level definitely starts to take a hit this time of year.

That said, I'm in Saranac Lake, so some of the three dozen or so cure cottages listed here will be a piece of cake for me as soon as I can figure out where they are, and I think I know where to find that info. Other Franklin County sites and those in other nearby counties (Essex, Clinton) will be easier than the southern and western Adks. Incidentally, I see on your talk page where you've done some bulk creation of stubs for missing articles; I would definitely suggest not doing this with Saranac Lake's cure cottages-- they really should be treated in a single article-- there's just not that much to say about any one of them, but the generic topic is interesting enough. I could take a stab at this soon if I get the time.

The rest I will definitely work on over time, say by the end of next summer I should be able to get to most of them. Take care, Mwanner | Talk 20:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NRHP church articles

Thanks for the kudos. I'm not sure I understand your suggestion though. Are you saying that I shouldn't cite both [7] and [8] because they are redundant? I'd like to keep both, just in case one goes away at some point. I fixed the access dates, which I had been lazy about before. --Appraiser 16:15, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

You have obviously put a lot more thought into the referencing the nrhp than I have. Feel free to clean up any as you see fit. I don't actually refer to Elkman's infobox generator, but I do always begin by copying another similar article. For nrhp, I cite both the nris site and the nps site, which usually have the same information, but redundancy isn't bad. I often cite Archiplanet because it usually has the "date added" and the date built, then I look for at least one verbose source, such as an historical society or current tenant to give me a few sentences to write about the building. Actually, my very first step is to find a free photo; I much prefer articles with photos, especially if the subject is a building or landmark. I searched all of the files on WikiCommons looking for nrhp in Minnesota, and identified about a dozen that didn't yet have articles. Also Elkman and Jonathunder have stashes of pictures that I appropriate. If I find one on a government website, sometimes I use that. (Anything on a U.S. government website is public domain.) Also Flickr has some free photos, and of course I've taken quite a few myself. I hope you don't mind that I added a picture of that church in Alabama.--Appraiser 05:42, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

Hm...Why do you think it is not in the public domain? It's clearly hosted on a U.S. govt. website. Look at the "Use of Data" section here: [9]. I think this statement applies to all govt. servers. I can ask to have the photo removed, but unless I've missed something (like a statement saying it's not PD), I think we're OK.--Appraiser 15:45, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

NPS disclaimer page has Ownership PD statement. Also, the "new search" pages [natreghome.do?searchtype=natreghome] sometimes shows that NRHP descriptions/images have been created by NPS employees. (SEWilco 00:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC))

I dropped a keystroke in your link to "NPS disclaimer page" so that it comes through. Thanks, yes, and it states that not all information in the NPS pages is public domain. doncram 01:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Stuff which is not PD is labeled, such as a picture with a "Courtesy of..." label. (SEWilco 01:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC))

Does that mean that the "photo credit" and "negative filed at"[10] makes the photo non-PD? Thanks for the link to the NPS disclaimer. Hopefully we're getting closer to the definitive answer.--Appraiser 14:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

It is implied to be non-USGov-PD because the negatives are stated as not being under the control of the NPS. If the photographer was an NPS employee that should not be the case. Also, when the photographer is an NPS employee that is often noted (although not always). Check if the site application PDF is available and see if the photographer's name happens to be the same as the person (probably an NPS employee) who filled out the application. You could also contact the organization with the negatives to check the copyright status. Or try to have the geographical coordinates on the article and put {{pictreq|in=Alabama}} on the Talk page. (SEWilco 15:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC))

The pictures of the steamboat President (pdf photos) show some photos are courtesy of another organization while some are NPS photos. The last photo has no credit so we can't use it without confirmation (although it is probably NPS photo). A more formal example is Bathhouse Row, where page 12 of the nomination form shows it was created by an NPS employee and the separate photos each have a typed description which includes mention of their being an NPS photo and that NPS has negative (and the photographer happens to also be the nominator). (SEWilco 15:34, 29 October 2007 (UTC))

Thanks for your civility too. I'm not particularly concerned about that one Gothic church in Alabama, but I'm interested in policy, protocol, and the 1000s of new articles we'll be writing until we get articles for all the nrhp (with pictures). I am however baffled by the viewpoint that a photo hosted on a U.S. govt. server with the words "public domain" attached to the specific application form isn't absolutely "PUBLIC DOMAIN". It doesn't matter who took the picture or who owns the negative. Once a "work" enters the public domain - especially digitally - it is there forever. No law change or change of custody can ever take that back. I prefer not to believe that the NPS employees are that sloppy, but that the entire application is PD. Furthermore, even if they made a mistake, any liability would clearly fall on the govt. - not on Wikipedia. Anyway, I'm not going to push the issue (about the church) any more, but going forward, I'm going to trust what those government websites say.--Appraiser 02:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

It may be overstating it to say the public domain tag is "attached" to documents that are "applications". For one, the tag is generated by a system that serves up documents, it is not visible on the face of any one of the documents to which it provides links. It may be that the field is mislabelled. Second, the documents in the system are not all applications, per se. Some of them, yes, are NHL application forms completed by owner of a site. Many are survey forms or "Inventory/Nomination" documents completed by NPS employees or by other non-owners, sometimes completed years after a site was declared a NHL. (In the case of the Prairieville church, the form was prepared by the director of the Alabama Historical Commission in May 1973, before the site was subsequently declared a NHL in November of that year, so in this case the form seemed to have functioned as a nomination.) Third, the photo sets aren't all that clearly attached to the text documents: I may have been overstating the connection by labelling the photosets as "accompanying" the texts, in my references to NRHP documents in hundreds of articles now, including St. Andrews Church (Prairieville, Alabama).

The general question is important. There are 2000 or so sets of photos that are made available through that National Register interface that puts up the "Public Domain" tag. That system covers NHLs, National Historic Sites, and perhaps other categories. I've noticed some mere NRHPs, which were perhaps candidates for NHL status that didn't make it. If the NPS has put them in public domain, we should establish that and proceed to use them. I would be wary that they could just change the system so it no longer shows public domain tag. doncram 20:05, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Incidentally, did you notice the church photos at [11]? (SEWilco 17:20, 31 October 2007 (UTC))

I did, but I don't see anything there indicating public domain. Did I miss that somewhere?--Appraiser 17:42, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

DOH! I missed that there was a link to the 8 photos. Those, as with other HABS photos, are fairly clearly public domain. There is a disclaimer that it is user's job to perform a legal analysis before reproducing, applicable to all HABS photos. We can/should go ahead and use those for this article. But none of them are as nice as the photo accompanying the NHRP document. I wish there were one good one of the church overall, with good views of the wooden flying buttresses that are visible but not featured in the 1 HABS photo of the full church, front/north view, not such a great pic. doncram 19:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I added an external link to the HABS photos from the St. Andrews Church (Prairieville, Alabama) article.

The bibliographic info states they are HABS photos (the photographer and HABS number placard in the photos help confirm that). The LOC HABS Rights page says PD except when another source is credited. (SEWilco 19:23, 31 October 2007 (UTC))

Cool. Thanks.--Appraiser 19:55, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My NHLs

My NHLs are your NHLs. Slap some paint on. (SEWilco 22:03, 28 October 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Robert S. Abbott House/Fort King

RE your edits to Robert S. Abbott House: I don't think "Fort King" is actually an alternate title for the place; I think it's just a mistake at the NHL site. I've had this discussion before; I'll see if I can dig up the details. Zagalejo^^^ 08:01, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Oh, didn't see your comments on the talk page. Anyway, this is the discussion I mentioned. Zagalejo^^^ 08:05, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I've just looked through the Chicago Tribune's PDF archives going back to 1876, and I didn't find any mention of a "Fort King" in Illinois. The 43 hits either referred to the site in Florida or were cases where the words "fort" and "king" just happened to be close to each other (eg., "comfort king").

That doesn't necessarily settle things, but I think it's very likely the title is simply an error at the NHL site. Is there any way to contact them to ask? Zagalejo^^^ 08:27, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll see if I can contact them, in hopes of settling things. Nice list you have there, by the way. Glad you're so committed to this stuff. Cheers, Zagalejo^^^ 08:43, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NRHP/NHL Infoboxes

Thanks for your comment and support. I figured it was time to start making sure that all the NRHP articles have infoboxes. I'm not doing it systematically, just hit and miss. That way, eventually, they'll all get done. I'm just using the template that's accessible - that way if anyone wants to change it, they can. If there's anything else, just ask. Einbierbitte 00:10, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Priestley House assessment

I restored it to B because the only standards that matter for now are at WP:ASSESS. To me, some of those points are rather picayune ... yes, they should all be met, but remember that for now they're your proposals and haven't been consensus-approved. By the standards of most other projects I'm involved with, it's a B — well-cited, illustrated and comprehensive. You can certainly add the things you think should be in there, and they probably might make sense for an FA or even GA nom, but right now it's an excellent start (And even if you still think it doesn't rate a B, wouldn't it make sense for an article like that to be rated as start-class, not stub? Stub-class IMO should be reserved only for actual stubs or substubs marked as such.) Daniel Case 02:59, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I do think your compromise suggestion would make sense, give it one rating below rather than being so adamant about the principle of using what I regard as the basic NHL references. I suppose you could have been miffed that I knocked your rating down by 2. Likewise I am miffed you reversed my rating by 2. A compromise by either of us coulda been better. doncram 11:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup of NHL articles

Thanks for cleaning up some of those MN articles. Unfortunately the NRIS website doesn't give the NRHP "date added". So, I think putting that reference there is misleading. Actually I have had a fair amount of difficulty finding those dates. Sometimes I just put the year, based on the NRHP number, and then someone else adds the month and day. I don't know where folks are getting those.

I suppose someone using a blackberry might care about the file sizes, but it seems extraneous to me.

Concerning List of National Historic Landmarks in New York, you might consider adding GPS coordinates for each item and "GeoGroupTemplate" on the page. It's pretty cool. (Click on "map of all coordinates" in List of National Historic Landmarks in Minnesota if you haven't already.)--Appraiser 00:06, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] see Talk:‎Edgewater (Barrytown, New York)

Are you able to clarify? LessHeard vanU 21:26, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, did so. Responded at Talk:‎Edgewater (Barrytown, New York). doncram 03:14, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Los Cerritos Ranch House

What does HABS stand for in this article? Rmhermen (talk) 13:48, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Historic American Buildings Survey[12]--Appraiser (talk) 16:22, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] California NHLs, and PD request

LOL. I'm going on vacation after this week too, and my wife is going to make darn sure I don't have access to Wikipedia for the duration. You've done good work eliminating the redlinks on List of National Historic Landmarks in California. I've washed my hands of that particular list for the time being - focusing on making sure other states' lists are complete and well organized. I'm looking at List of National Historic Landmarks in Oregon as a possible FL candidate - fits neatly into both WikiProjects that I participate in, and the smaller number of NHLs makes for an easier bite to chew. But the CA list is clearly one of the gems to eventually push to FL. Enjoy your time off. Ipoellet (talk) 01:42, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] T. G. Richards coordinates

Well, I used Google maps to get the coordinates, as I had never seen that Infobox generator. But I think the generator is goofing on it, as it's saying 4 degrees, which is nowhere near Bellingham, or the U.S. for that matter. So, unless we can find a different "official" coordinate (I didn't know the NHRP listed coordinates), I'll just leave the one I added. Thanks for the help! Murderbike (talk) 18:02, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I've actually been doing a lot of work on the Washington list. I first started adding photos for all the locations in Bellingham (and a few for Seattle), and then just worked out a new table to hold the photos and some other information. Take a look at List of Registered Historic Places in Washington#Whatcom County and let me know what you think. Murderbike (talk) 18:39, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Originally I had the same table as the King County/Seattle one that User:Jmabel did, but just changed it the other night. I probably won't do TOO many of the site articles, because of other stuff I'm working on, but I'm really into the photography side of it, so am going to keep trying to add photos, and corresponding tables for places I visit. Maybe some day I'll delve deeper into the Bellingham sites, but since I'm not currently living there, it's a little tough to concentrate on. But thanks for the kind words! Murderbike (talk) 00:28, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey, I got carried away and went ahead and did Pickett House, since I had a good source that I was going to return to the library. Feel free to check it for mistakes or whatnot. Cheers! Murderbike (talk) 21:23, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Henry Cowell

You just moved Henry Cowell to a disambiguation page, with no discussion. That wasn't a good move, because Henry Cowell the composer is massively better known and more frequently searched for than Henry Cowell the industrialist. You should simply have created a Henry Cowell (disambiguation) page. Please move it back, then use "discussion" to build consensus before moving. Badagnani (talk) 07:24, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, how are you doing? I see you're doing good work on these subjects. The way I know it was changed is because, some time ago, I clicked "watch" at the top of the Henry Cowell article. That tab is on the right of every page at Wikipedia. Then you click "my watchlist," which is just above that to see all the pages you care about, and what is being edited on them. Regarding Henry Cowell the composer, I've contributed to that page, and have also contributed to the Henry Cowell Redwoods page, as about a year ago I got confused, thinking they might be the same person (because Henry Cowell was also from northern California. I'm sure the composer is more famous than the long-dead industrialist. He was among the most important and influential American composers of the 20th century. Badagnani (talk) 07:44, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

The only time we'd have Henry Cowell be a disambiguation page is if there were no primary meaning of this name. Otherwise, the disambiguation page would be called Henry Cowell (disambiguation). Badagnani (talk) 07:46, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I didn't think the industrialist was significant enough to have his own page, since there was already a link to his biography in the Redwoods Park page named after him. Badagnani (talk) 07:55, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Also, we already had a dab at Henry Cowell (musician)#See also. Badagnani (talk) 07:56, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Flat Rock

I'm puzzled. I've been working on the Great Camp articles. Flat Rock Camp is listed in our articles as part of the MPS (see last pg), but so far as I can see, it's not; rather it comes up as an individual listing. And is there, somewhere, a nice text treatment of the individual nominations like the nice multi-page MPS nominations? I can find essentially nothing about Flat Rock-- the two Great Camp books I'm using fail to mention it at all.

BTW, I have done the Cure Cottages of Saranac Lake article, with lotsa photos. I'll try to get to the great camp photos in the spring (but notice the nice S R Stoddard of Echo Camp-- too bad there aren't a lot more like that around). Cheers!-- Mwanner | Talk 18:22, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Followup-- the list in Great Camps omitted Topridge, and spuriously included Flatrock; I have fixed it here. -- Mwanner | Talk 20:12, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info on emailing for NRHPs docs-- you'd think it would be a whole lot easier for them to put them online. Anyway, the fact that one can only get them via snail-mail means I'm going to have to put it off 'til March, 'cause I'm off to Florida for three months of tent-camping, no mail, and hardly any computer access. Till then, enjoy! -- Mwanner | Talk 17:19, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Syracuse area historic places

Your welcome for the help with those articles. I do have to give credit where credit is due though. I created the initial article List of Syracuse University buildings because I was in the process of creating Template:Syracuse University and saw the need for the article. I hadn't put the list of building in the article at that point yet, when I was ready to add them, I discovered an annon user beat me to it. As for the pictures, I did not add them to wikipedia, they were already in the Syracuse University article. Since they were all public domain, I created a page on the wikicommons, Syracuse University, and started transferring all the pictures there that were public domain. When you created the articles on Crouse College, Syracuse University and Hall of Languages, Syracuse University, I saw the need for the images, so I went to the commons and retrieved them for the article. I am glad that these contributions were useful. I will continue to do what I can for the SU articles on wikipedia, including retrieving images. I will be returning to 'cuse in January, so I will attempt to take the pictures you requested then, and many more of places around the campus. This includes the Psi Upsilon fraternity. Its actually located right outside where I have classes. The buildings list is going to need a lot of work, to bring up to par with other building lists. (See the articles talk page for more information I wrote about it). I agree with you about the Syracuse Project. Hopefully, this latest set of contributions stirs some activity from users on their wikiproject. Anyway, thanks again for the message, if you have any other requests of me, feel free to ask. I also like contributing to wikipedia as much as I can. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 18:17, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

• As an additional note, did you see that Syracuse University has made the University Collaboration of a Fortnight. That should steer some people that direction. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 18:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
  • Sounds good. I've updated the Su template to include that article. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 19:08, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Your comment

Alright, that wasn't clear to me as a non-American, and I'm guessing it may not be to others like me as well. But I do not have particularly strong feelings one way or the other. Perhaps you can start up a discussion on the article's talk page? Feel free to revert my move if you please, by the way. Lilac Soul ^{(talk • contribs • count)} 19:29, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rice Hall

It has been suggested that Rice Hall be merged with Cornell University. Feel free to weigh in with your opinion on the talk page. Thanks. Truthanado (talk) 22:13, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info about the 4 NRHPs at Carleton College. I will remove the merge request. I would like to request that you add a Historic sites section to Cornell University that directs the reader to the campus's NRHPs (Rice Hall is the first), similar to the section at Carlton College. Thanks again. Truthanado (talk) 22:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

The Historic sites section is a very nice addition to the Cornell University article. Well done. Truthanado (talk) 23:57, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sleeping Giant

Thanks for the added content about the tower & for picking up on the typos. I was wondering about the lengthy dead link regarding the Connecticut work program. Is that an article you are working on now? If not, I was thinking that it might be better to remove the brackets and let it stand as simple text. --Pgagnon999 (talk) 21:14, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion of Katherine Schipper

A tag has been placed on Katherine Schipper requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable, as well as our subject-specific notability guideline for biographies.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 23:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I still don't see the notability. Mere memebership in this "hall of fame," nor being its first female member, does not confer notability. I also question the notability of the Accounting Hall of Fame article itself, as it appears to be little more than a colloection of red links. I will propose it for deletion as well. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 00:06, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accounting Hall of Fame

A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Accounting Hall of Fame, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you agree with the deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please add {{db-author}} to the top of Accounting Hall of Fame. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 00:08, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I responded to Realkyhick on his talk page and on the article's talk page, and I removed the proposed deletion tag. doncram (talk) 17:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] AfD nomination of Accounting Hall of Fame

I have nominated Accounting Hall of Fame, an article you created, for deletion. I do not feel that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Accounting Hall of Fame. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time. - Realkyhick (Talk to me) 08:43, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

The result of the AfD process review was Keep. doncram (talk) 17:41, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Red links

A tag has been placed on Red links, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, you can request that administrators wait a while for you to add contextual material. To do this, affix the template {{hangon}} to the article and state your intention on the article's talk page. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Blanchardb-^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}-timed 01:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

As for your question, the answer is here. --Blanchardb-^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}-timed 01:00, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New NHSR article in Connecticut

Just wanted to give you the heads up: there's a new National Historic Register article Peter's Rock posted; I just finished editing it into shape. You may wish to compliment it the way you did with Sleeping Giant. --Pgagnon999 (talk) 15:51, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I was concerned that the source was a little shaky; figured that you'd be the one to pick up on it if it was. I'll remove it. Thanks for the compliment; I"ve been working hard (too hard) on getting the various summits of the Metacomet Ridge up to date. --Pgagnon999 (talk) 16:20, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. ..but you forgot to include the link. --Pgagnon999 (talk) 16:57, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Old Quaker Meetinghouse

Hiya :)

I've posted on Talk:Old Quaker Meetinghouse that I think the page should be moved to Old Quaker Meeting House. As you moved the previous one to the current one, I thought you might want to know.

Thanks very much, Drum guy (talk) 15:23, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Grahamsville Historic District

(Regarding Grahamsville Historic District): Yeah, 5 buildings and 20 acres makes a lot more sense given the area. I couldn't see how they could get to 200 without including the school (doozy of a DYK coming up on that one).

So you've been able to view the Register apps at ORPHP? Everytime I try it tells me to update JavaScript, and I always just chalk it up to NY getting too funky with its site development. Daniel Case (talk) 03:36, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, hey ... it's working now. Thanks for the additions! Daniel Case (talk) 03:57, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

(Regarding East End Historic District (Newburgh, New York)): In my browser (Firefox) it opens in a new window. I get that URL from the title bar.

Yup, you made my life more difficult :-). Now I can get some idea of the real historical value of all these places and I have to write something sourced. Takes more time but it's worth it. Daniel Case (talk) 07:55, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't surprise me that it's so big ... the text application was 354 pages long due to all the buildings that had to be listed! I'll do it when I can catch a break from the old photos I'm busy processing and uploading. The East End is a very big deal to the city of Newburgh, so I knew I had to really sink into it.

Now I've just got to go back and look at the applications for every single NRHP I've written an article on. :-) Daniel Case (talk) 15:08, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

If you want to talk to me privately just use my email; I have it enabled. Daniel Case (talk) 18:16, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I must admit that now that you've let me know that page works, I can't help but use it. Every single new NRHP article I've written since then, I've now found a DYK fact to nominate. See Hoornbeek Store Complex, Old Poughkeepsie YMCA (retitled from the NR listing as Young Men's Christian Association (Poughkeepsie, New York) to better fit with our naming conventions for YMCA buildings (as far as I can tell they exist from Cat:YMCA) and the fact that it's not home to the Y anymore despite the entablature) and, just today and back across the river, Thaddeus Hait Farm, which picked up a winery angle I should have realized existed the day I was taking the pictures). I also updated Poughkeepsie Savings Bank and New York State Armory (Poughkeepsie) with info from those applications (unusually short, but then that was the early 1980s when the NPS seemed to require less elaborate documentation).

Now there are so many others that I'll have to update eventually. You just made my life here ten times more difficult :-). Oh well, the net result is better articles.

I'm thinking of adding the courthouse pic to the main Dutchess County article, too.

I may be taking a short break from NRHP to reorganize Cat:Ulster County, New York along the same lines as I've already done for Orange County. This coincides with a short break from new pictures in mid-October, after which I have a whole bunch from Beacon, Nelsonville (this will be interesting as it includes the first bona fide "House At ..." listings I've got pics for. Since there's applications at OPRHP for only one of the several buildings in Nelsonville (most a short walk from each other along NY 301 ... why didn't they apply for HD status while they were at it?). I may just create a list page instead save for the one OPRHP does have) and Poughkeepsie. So I'll be busy when I come back. Daniel Case (talk) 20:58, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the warm welcome

One of the pages you started, on the John Trumbull Birthplace, got me started to begin with. I'd become fascinated with the Connecticut Governor Jonathan Trumbull and decided to visit his house after finding your page. I took a look at the List of National Historic Landmarks in New York page, and there are definitely some places, like Saratoga Spa State Park and St. Paul's Episcopal, that I could snap photos of. However, I'm still unclear which New York NHLs classify for the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cg-realms (talk • contribs) 20:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] of vs. in

I assume you've been following the discussion about splitting the category of Landmarks by state. Since some folks had kindly begun the work before it was ironed out, I had decided to go ahead with the "of" wording. I see that you have started working on the PA articles using "in." Do you think we should revisit this before proceeding? I'm not sure how difficult it is to rename a category, but I've seen bots doing that. At this point, the state categories have been created, and I have looked at/modified all of the articles starting with "A". I believe Washington and Oregon articles are done too. (I decided to go through the list here because some of the articles on the list are not actually NHLs, and it will be much easier to correct them before modifying the infobox template.) I was also thinking that the state landmark categories ought to have Category:Registered Historic Place in XX–then that category can be deleted from each individual article. Let me know what you think. Thanks--Appraiser (talk) 21:21, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
...in your message to me, i also did not understand what you meant by the following: "(I decided to go through the list because some of the articles on the list are not actually NHLs, and it will be much easier to correct them before modifying the infobox template.)" What list?

I am going through each article in Category:National Historic Landmarks of the United States (I've done 1 Hanover Square through Battle of Camas Creek so far.) All of these articles either have Category:National Historic Landmarks of the United States or an nrhp infobox with type=nhl (or both). I am verifying that they are in fact NHLs, adding categories such as Category:National Historic Landmarks of Alabama, and deleting Category:National Historic Landmarks of the United States if present. Ultimately I want to modify the infobox template to prevent it from adding Category:National Historic Landmarks of the United States to all NHLs. But I want to hold off on that change until all the articles have state-specific categories in place.--Appraiser (talk) 22:36, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

And I also did not understand: "I was also thinking that the state landmark categories ought to have Category:Registered Historic Place in XX–then that category can be deleted from each individual article." What are state landmark categories, to start with? For example?

I created categories such as Category:National Historic Landmarks of Alabama for each state. They currently contain Category:National Historic Landmarks of the United States and Category:Landmarks in Alabama. I think they should also contain Category:Registered Historic Places in Alabama. That would allow us to delete that category from each individual article since all "Landmarks" in states are also NRHPs.--Appraiser (talk) 22:36, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree that "in" should replace "of". I'll try to figure out how to change them semi-automatically.--Appraiser (talk) 22:36, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bathhouse Row/Temp

Another editor has added the "{{prod}}" template to the article Bathhouse Row/Temp, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but the editor doesn't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and has explained why in the article (see also Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not and Wikipedia:Notability). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia or discuss the relevant issues at its talk page. If you remove the {{prod}} template, the article will not be deleted, but note that it may still be sent to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. BJBot (talk) 22:30, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah that is a legacy of a budding edit war over the article Bathhouse Row. This notice prompted me to go back to that article and try to fix it up, to avoid the appearance of plagiarism. Two approaches are available: start fresh dropping copied text (which I prefer), or identify with quotations the long passages that are merely copied, and which comprise almost the entire article. doncram (talk) 02:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category discussions

There is history and precedent for many changes. Unless you have been following the discussions for a while, it may be hard to know this. Don't sweet it and keep contributing away. If you like doing historic articles and run out of ideas, I have not been able to find much on several listing in Clark County, Nevada. If you want to jump in there feel free.

On a different point. You may want to consider archiving your talk page's older discussions. Edit my talk page and look at the very top. This sets the page up for a bot to do the archiving. You need the Mizabot and the archive setups. If you need more help, drop me a note on my talk page. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:08, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the pointer for historic site information source. Vegaswikian (talk) 20:47, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Connecticut Hall (Yale University) prodded for deletion

Hi, thanks for all your work on the registered historic sites articles. The Connecticut Hall (Yale University) article duplicates material in the older Connecticut Hall article, so I've tagged the former for deletion. If there is anything that should be added to the older article, you might want to do so. If you have any problem with deleting the latter article, please tell me and I can reconsider. Thanks again. Noroton (talk) 03:33, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

No problem at all. I'll change it to merge. Noroton (talk) 10:12, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Crouse College

Take a look at what an annon user added to the Crouse College, Syracuse University article. Is he allowed to make the addition he did. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 22:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

• Glad I could help.--ZeWrestler ^Talk 04:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: St. Peter's Episcopal Church (Albany, New York)‎

Thanks. I was meaning to ask you about that page, anyway: What's the protocol for adding multiple images to articles that are basically stubs? While I was out today, I also took a photo of the NHL plaque and an overhead photo of the church from the 43rd story observation deck of the Corning Tower. Both would add to the article in a way that the main close-up photo does not, but I wasn't comfortable adding them without a more substantial article. - Cg-realms (talk) 21:10, 10 January 2008 (EST)

I ultimately added a gallery to the article because, with three extra pictures to add, it was the arrangement that fit the article most comfortably. I'll probably do similar for any future contributions. - Cg-realms (talk) 22:09, 10 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] Eastern State Penitentiary

Hey, just wanted to let you know, as you were adding some useful stuff to Eastern State Penitentiary, an anonymous user was vandalizing. I had to revert, but it got rid of your edit too. Wasn't sure if you wanted to add it back in? --Midnightdreary (talk) 01:43, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cape Field at Fort Glenn

In response to your comment at User talk: Zyxw #Cape Field at Fort Glenn:

As requested, I updated the Cape Field at Fort Glenn article to place quotes around text taken directly from the NHL summary. I also merged the two sets of references and restored the text regarding it being "a public domain work of the United States Government", and therefore acceptable include in a Wikipedia article. Since the NHL link is currently not working, I added a link to a cached version that can be found on Google. -- Zyxw (talk) 08:15, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Birdcraft Sanctuary

Thank you for changing the overall name for this article, which will make it easier for people to find. I have no problem with the other format for the NHL listing. We are members of CT Audubon and I live nearby, so I will try to take some photos and post them soon. I will be working to create more pages for museums and nature centers in Connecticut. Jllm06 (talk) 02:12, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Phi Upsilon Chapter House and other images

Ask and receive my friend. I have added pictures to Pi Chapter House of Psi Upsilon Fraternity, Hall of Languages, Syracuse University and Crouse College, Syracuse University. I have also added several images of different buildings on campus to the commons category on SU. Please look through them and see if any of them are of use to you. I plan to eventually use many of these images in the List of Syracuse University buildings article. Also, which buildings are part of the Comstock Tract Buildings. You created the article, but didn't specify any. Hope these contributions help. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 04:34, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

• By the way, if you have any other specific buildings you need pictures of near SU, let me know and I'll see what I can do.--ZeWrestler ^Talk 15:27, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Oklahoma

Hi, Ya I can try to add photos to the list, I know that I can get you 2 of them for sure, the Cherokee National Capitol and the Murrell Home. I am currently going to college in Tahlequah so they are right down the street. Whenever I get time to sit down and really work at ill take a look at getting some more of those photos for you. --Cal (talk) 22:43, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I am going to try to get a better picture soon, mabye one in the spring or in early summer, when the grounds of the building look nicer —Preceding unsigned comment added by CPacker (talk • contribs) 16:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] {{DANFS}} Linking

Hi - You can find a conversation at Template_talk:DANFS#Link_parameter_added that should help you. And thanks very much for fixing the List of Liberty ships. That was a better alternative all around. --Brad (talk) 01:23, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Just cos

[edit] Unclear Sources Help

Thanks for your suggestions on improving the references on the John_R._Alison article. I had some questions for you. Please take a look at the article's Talk Page. Skeet Shooter (talk) 05:40, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Hello again, Doncram. I've updated the references on the John R. Alison article. Would you mind taking a look and see what you think? Thanks. Skeet Shooter (talk) 04:57, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Style guidance for PD sourced content.

You and I have made our positions clear to each other. I appreciate all your constructive edits and hope that my interest in resolving our positions doesn't discourage you from that effort. I am not unsympathetic with the motivation behind your efforts to get all PD-source tags replaced with intext cites. I agree there is an issue that needs the attention of the Wikipedia community. I am concerned with the methods you have chosen to resolve that issue, and the rationale you use to defend your edits. Along those lines, I have posted a query, hoping to ascertain to what extent WP:REF does indeed support your rationale. See here. --Paleorthid (talk) 20:02, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Your nofootnotes tags

I removed your {{nofootnotes}} tags after discussing your addition of them at the RFC about your claim that public domain material must be quoted and attributed.[13] Regardless of the merits of that claim, nofootnotes is not an appropriate tag because its text was obviously false in all of the articles I reverted it from. You must have been looking for {{refimprove}} which would have been better (because the text would be true), or inline {{citequote}}s which would have been ideal. I am sorry that my edit summary was inadequate. 23:08, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

{{citequote}} looks like this.^{[cite this quote]} MilesAgain (talk) 02:39, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I have also removed your {{nofootnotes}} from Arthur Lichte and Roger A. Brady for any copied text was published by the United States Air Force as note at the bottum of each page making all copied text public domain. Neovu79 (talk) 04:24, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NHL in NH list

You're welcome! It's good to have a framework to start with. Being rather centrally located in NH, I have had the idea of getting out with the camera at some point and finding some of these places. See you, --Ken Gallager (talk) 12:41, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Syracuse University Buildings

I just did a revamp of the List of Syracuse University buildings article. The article still needs a lot of work. I've only set up the skeletal framework of whats to come with the article. I think given your past work I've seen, you'd be able to make good contributions to the article. May you take a look at it and see what you can do?--ZeWrestler ^Talk 16:09, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Connecticut Audubon Society Birdcraft Museum and Sanctuary

I added some photos I took today of the exterior and two interior displays. Can you give me some guidance on what kind of citations are really needed about a museum, especially if I have visited it? Thanks. Jllm06 (talk) 20:23, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: other Albany area pic or two?

Unfortunately, I'm moving back to Boston tomorrow so I won't be able to grab any new pics for a while. That said, I plan on being back for a week or so in either March or April so I'll try to grab new pics of a couple NHLs then if nobody else has. -Cg-realms (talk) 17:05, 19 January 2008 (EST)

[edit] General Electric Research Laboratory

I will admit that I'm far less certain about the connection of that image to that specific NHL than my other contributions simply because I'd taken in prior to when I started "hunting" specifically for NHLs.

However, everything I can find about the research library implies that it is a three building complex. The Geolink brings us to this satellite picture which also shows a three building complex. I still wasn't sure that it was the same complex, because some of the details on the satellite photo differed from my photo. But then I found an old painting from a site on the Research Laboratory that shows the building in my photo is clearly the building north of River Rd on the Google Maps satellite image. The other two buildings have quite distinctive footprints, one like an uppercase "F" and the other like a serif "J". The shapes of both are clearly visible as the other two buildings from the oblique view in the painting. Also, on top of all that, the foot bridge between the photographed boxy building and the serif "J" building is just barely visible in the satellite image.

So while none of this is concrete proof, added together the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

As for why I titled the picture "...Plant" when it's evidently a research laboratory, my only defense is that it's colloquially known by every one of the region as the Plant, mainly from decades of depressing news coverage in which "workers at the General Electric plant face a new round of layoffs." Together with its literary fame via Kurt Vonnegut, it's a looming reminder of Schenectady's rust belt legacy.

All of that is probably a far more complex and exhaustive explanation than you were looking for, but I'm a hopeless history buff that will expound endlessly on a topic of interest when given the chance.

P.S. Thanks for the kind words concerning the Massachusetts NHLs list. Having become accustomed to the studious upkeep apparent on the NY and Connecticut lists by you and others like you, I was surprised about how undeveloped it was — especially considering how complete so many of the pages it links to are. -Cg-realms (talk) 02:00, 3 February 2008 (EST)

[edit] Robert McGill Loughridge

Hi, I was talking to you the other day about adding photos for the cherokee national capitol, anyways I was wondering you could assess this page that I created, so I could get someone else's oppionin. Thanks for reading this --Cal (talk) 04:41, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

• Also, I am going to add a photo of Loughridge in a few hours, just telling you so you can take that into consideration--Cal (talk) 04:47, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Responded to Cpacker's talk page. doncram (talk) 22:54, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] January 20, 2008

I didn't see when I put a {{db-nocontext}} tag on this that you were an experienced editor, but I don't think I repent. Anyway, where I am it was gloomy and rained. Regards, JohnCD (talk) 21:34, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

No, I'm not an admin, just an ordinary user who sometimes relaxes by doing "Recent Changes Patrol", watching the newly created pages and tagging the ones that need deleting. And I don't know where you should report the problem - the Help Desk, or maybe the talk page for WP:CITE? My first thought was, the system must have put [[ ]] brackets round the date and you could edit them out, but I looked and they aren't there. Three lines up from your citation there's another, where the date has been linked in two parts, to May 20, 2007. Odd. Cheers, JohnCD (talk) 22:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: edits on List of NHLs in CT

Sorry for cutting your description; I don't feel strongly about it. Unfortunately, it wasn't quite true this year... I'll probably add some more descriptions when I get the chance. Maybe CT can eventually catch up with NY. Staib (talk) 13:51, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Doncram! Staib (talk) 01:46, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Binghamton Asylum Pics

Hi -

Sorry I didn't see your message earlier (I'm still somewhat a neophyte using Wikipedia)...I don't currently have a lot of pics of the Inebriate Asylum but can work on that. There were some folks who do a website (nysasylum.org I believe) and it's possible they may release a pic or two into the public domain... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dcamin (talk • contribs) 14:35, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] barnstar

As a newpage patroller, I couldn't help but notice ther great articles that you create.

		The Original Barnstar
		For your articles on National Register of Historic Places brewcrewer (yada, yada) 17:47, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

absolutely agree dm (talk) 17:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Grace Episcopal Church

FYI, I know where Grace Episcopal Church is located. I'll make a quick trip tomorrow there and get a picture of it for the article. I also added some images to the List of Registered Historic Places in Onondaga County, New York article.--ZeWrestler ^Talk 06:43, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• I've gone and added the picture of the Church to the article. I also discovered, while looking at other land marks to see if I could help, that there was a possible typo in the Estabrook House (Syracuse, New York) with the date the house was built. I believe I corrected it. Good work so far on the Comstock Tract Buildings article and your additions to the List of Syracuse University buildings article. I've added new images to it that I also took while visiting the campus today. That's a good suggestion you have with dividing the article into multiple table. My only issue with allowing Tract buildings their own table, would be redundancy within the Tract buildings article. I do think we could add a similar format to the Tract buildings article with the images I've put on Wikipedia. I am also thinking that it might be a good idea in the future to make all of the residents halls in the article have their own table as well. Just a thought. I've also noticed a possible discrepancy between the 2 articles. The Tract buildings lists 2 Lyman halls: Lyman C. Smith Hall and Lyman Hall of Natural History. The list I am working on doesn't list two and doesn't specify which of the 2 is already listed. So far as I've traveled around the campus I have yet to see a second building with a Lyman hall title. The closest thing I've seen is Machinery Hall, which if you look at the image, has the name Lyman Cornelius Smith in the header. Would you be able to look around and see if you find anything else about the second Lyman Hall? Once again great work, and as I've said before, if there is anything else I can do to help out, let me know. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 05:37, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
• I've updated Estabrook House (Syracuse, New York) with an image of the building. Hope that helps with your work. --ZeWrestler ^Talk 17:16, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chautauqua Institution

I beg to differ with you on your recent change to this article. The underlying National Register listing is for Chautauqua Institution Historic District.[14] Anyway it better describes the district, since even just locally Chautauqua refers to many things: the county, the town, the lake, the post office, the institution, the hamlet (which extends outside the gate), etc. And yes, I spent 4 summers on the grounds. clariosophic (talk) 11:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you-NHL articles in Wisconsin

Many thanks for the NHL articles in Wisconsin. They are very interesting. I added some citations from the Wisconsin Historical Society.The Hamlin Garland House in West Salem, Wisconsin is open to the public so I added its website to the article. Many thanks-RFD (talk) 13:59, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks for your message.RFD (talk) 19:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] thanks for re-sorting the NHL of NYC list, it's a pain to do that, but worth it

dm (talk) 17:35, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Orleans area photos

Hi. I live in New Orleans and have been uploading lots of photos to Commons. I mentioned this on the New Orleans wiki project a while back, but I wanted to mention to you as well: Most weeks I usually have at least half a day when I can take photos in the New Orleans area, and am happy to take requests. Thanks for your work on articles on historic places! Cheers, -- Infrogmation (talk) 14:46, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edward Douglass White House

Great job on this stub, but please fix it when you can. :-) Bearian (talk) 20:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] plaques

Thanks. I've added a note about {{PD-MNGov}} on the ones that are applicable. As I've looked at most of the nhl articles nationwide this week, the same issue may apply to dozens of other comparable images. As long as the entire sign is legible (so one can read the sponsoring organization), I don't see how it is any different than quoting the text with attribution. That might not meet WP:style, but it would be legal.--Appraiser (talk) 14:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

	Thanks for your support, comments and edits to the article - Joseph Priestley House made featured article today! Take care, Ruhrfisch ><>°° 02:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kate Mullany

Oooo, you got it done first. I'll work on this, too. Bearian (talk) 16:53, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Basin

Thank you for the kind words about the GA review and Basin, Montana. I had great fun doing the Basin piece. Everywhere I looked, I saw a mine entrance, a tailings pile, the ruins of an ore concentrator, a collapsed headframe. It was fascinating. Finetooth (talk) 17:18, 6 February 2008 (UTC)