Talk:Donna Summer

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This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or if there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard.

Contents

[edit] Deleted content

I deleted the sentence that calls Love to Love you baby an English version of Je t'aime... i know this was not meant literally but i think anyone reading it who didn't know Summer's music might read it as such. Graham 12:07, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I deleted the comment: "In 1991, during the height of the Gulf War, Summer's song "State Of Independence" was banned from US radio play alongside many other songs that were deemed to have an inflammatory effect on the population". No reference was given for this statement. It is a common understanding that there is freedom of speech in the US, so this ban is highly unbelieveable. More likely, much of the media refused to play the song during this period. - References needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.173.54.7 (talk) 15:51, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I cleaned up some grammar and sentence structure in two sections, and dropped a lot of hyperbole. Mhathaway (talk) 01:16, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Controversial comments

Mentioned singer's controversial comments (para 11). This greatly affected her career after 1982.

[edit] LaDonna Andre Gaines

Donna Summer's original middle name is generally listed as Andre, not Andrea. Though Andrea "sounds" better (it also appears that way in the German article), it's incorrect.

Neither is correct. Donna states clearly on page 5 of her autobiography, "I was born LaDonna Adrian Gaines on New Year's Eve...". I'll promptly correct it. I'll also correct the spelling of her first husband's name from Helmut to Helmuth, which is how Donna spells it in her book. Crisso 13:18, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Style Note

Contributors: Please render names of albums in italics; names of singles appear in Roman type with quotation marks: ex., "She Works Hard for the Money". This is general Wikipedia music style. Thanks. --MJ

[edit] Chart positions and sales figures

These need to be substantiated. There are too many changes being made to the figures - who knows what is correct. Also what is the meaning of two albums being "#1 in Every Country in the World"? huh? Every country - in the whole world? I doubt it. Contributors please cite your sources. Give us something that can be verified. Thanks Rossrs 08:26, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

The US chart positions have been corrected, and they can be checked out on the Donna Summer page at www.allmusic.com. The sales figures have been deleted because they don´t correspond to her RIAA gold and platinum certifications (www.RIAA.com). For gold, silver and platinum certifications from the UK, go to www.BPI.co.uk.

It looks as though some of the UK chart positions are also incorrect. According to here, Mistaken Identity and Live and More: Encore! made 50 and 20 respectively in the UK album charts. Yet neither are listed in the Guinness Book of British Hit Singles and Albums, which would suggest that they didn't chart in the UK (if they had made those positions then they WOULD be listed). Crisso 14:24, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
Summer defines a genre, has had massive success, and continues to enjoy significant career longevity. However, there seem to be repeated, if minor, conflations of sales numbers and certifications; this happens often at Wiki and is sometimes actually vandalism and not overzealous fans. I removed a claim on the Another Place And Time album page that it was a U.S. Platinum hit. It only peaked at 53 and only had one hit single; RIAA doesn't even list it as Gold. Gold is what is claimed in the DS article. I haven't removed the Gold claim here yet because I want to be sure there is no new information. Sometimes sites (even Billboard and RIAA et al) are incomplete, or lag in their updating. If data reported elsewhere states that sales have accumulated over the years (as would be presumed but should not be encyclopedically stated without citation) or that a certification was granted in the interim based on such accumulated sales, the source of this data should be cited. Otherwise, please remove the claim that Cats Without Claws sold 500,000 (which would qualify it for Gold) and that Another Place And Time is U.S. Gold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abrazame (talk • contribs) 16:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the article also says she still hold the record for three consecutive number-one albums. Britney Spears had four before Blackout, so... me no get. Someone should find a reference for that claim or something.--Plavalagunanbanshee (talk) 14:32, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

The article actually read that Summer still holds the record for "three consecutive (double) albums" hitting number one. I've just removed the parentheses around "double" because in addition to the implication that it was a minor detail, it implied that no other artist has had three consecutive number-one albums. On the one hand, the Summer statistic is more impressive in that double albums cost more than single disk albums and are therefore something of a risk to release, as many labels fear the added price will result in fewer copies sold. On the other hand, one was a greatest hits album and one was a live album (therefore essentially a hits album as well), and the running time of her double albums seem to be between 69 and 75 minutes, or within the potential running time of a very generously tracked single album in the CD format now. However, even Spears' bonus-track version albums (which were not released in the U.S. and so not part of the statistic in question) fall far short of that running time. One can argue that Spears has sold many more albums, but you'd have to note that Summer sold many more singles. One could also argue that the population of the U.S. is about 100 million more today than it was in Summer's heyday. One thing I've noticed on these pages that similarly implies things that are misleading is that several countries which did not have pop charts in the '70s and '80s have established them since, and other countries which did have pop charts do not post their archives that far back; as a result, Wiki articles for recent songs include a plethora of chart peaks that are not available or are not citable for older releases, even when those earlier releases were successful in those markets. For these and too many other reasons to mention, comparisons between different musical eras—or even within a musical era but after release, charting and certification rules and practices have changed—are completely incongruous and misleading, and become more so in Wiki articles that favor current and recent pop culture over that of earlier eras. Glancing at such articles, it's easy to conflate the significance of a recent song to equal to or above the level of an earlier hit, when in fact the earlier song had a greater impact either in market share or in actual units sold. Still, both as a measure of technical accuracy and as measured against other contemporary releases of their respective times, the record is what it is: Summer reached #1 with three consecutive double albums (of about 16 tracks each), and Spears reached #1 with four consecutive single albums (of about 11 tracks each). And every time I write about chart placement, I feel compelled to mention that I believe it's only one level on which music should be judged or rated—if indeed music should be judged or rated at all. Abrazame (talk) 09:47, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "The Hostage"

This is a really minor issue, but this is the third or even fourth time I removed that weird German chart position of the single "The Hostage". The single *never* charted in Germany at all, especially not that high!

Don't believe me? Try searching for a song called "The Hostage" here:
http://www.charts-surfer.de/musikcharts1024e.htm

So, for christ's sake!, stop adding this false information! Velour 15:16, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Red links for charts

Is there also confusion about which charts are meant as none of the links link to charts that surely have their Wikipedia articles? __meco 23:29, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Of course, the solution isn't simply linking to meaningless articles not related to the charts represented. __meco 09:40, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Voice

I am bewildered by the fact that very little attention is given to the analysis of Donna Summer's voice. No mention is made of her estimated extended range, vocal fach (also stating whether her tessitura exceeds or is shorter than what is, in theory, the proper vocal range for someone with her voice type), and so on. Unfortunately, my musical knowledge is far too limited to be able to provide anything of significance, and thus I shall limit myself to point this out. Thank you.

This section is just so weak. Not that the woman doesn't have a voice, but what's written is completely unsupported, without noting any examples of her range of style. These section just SAYS things without any support or verification. Mhathaway (talk) 01:14, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Longest note

The record for longest note held in a U.S. Top 40 pop song was broken in 1989 by Freddy Curci of the rock group Sheriff, with the re-release of the 1983 ballad "When I'm With You". His note is nearly ten seconds longer, and - though it is melisma - averages about an octave higher, than Summer's. On first release, the song was a very modest hit, but it went to #1 when it was rediscovered six years later. Summer currently holds the record for longest note held by a female artist in a Top 40 song in the UK (and may hold that record in the U.S. too? Can another Donna fan track that down?), but there she is outdone by Morten Harket of a-ha, whose 2000 hit "Summer Moved On" features a note over 20 seconds, and Bill Withers, for the 1978 hit "Lovely Day" (18 seconds). (Those songs didn't hit in the U.S. and the Sheriff song apparently didn't hit in the UK.) That doesn't take away from diva Donna, who has clearly been holding that note longer in the sense of career span and impact. Summer's steely note is thrilling, and I changed the wording so the impressive record could still be mentioned. Abrazame 10:36, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations & References

See Wikipedia:Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the <ref(erences/)> tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 09:28, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] gay fan influence on Summer's career

(In fact, it is worth noting that during this period the gay community realized its own heritage as purveyors of disco music as opposed to the greater straight rock fan base, and therein may lay some of the reason for disco's demise.)

The above passage seems really strangely worded to me, and hard to follow. Does it mean straights liked rock and gays liked disco? And because they are "lesser" (ie not "greater") in numbers disco died?

Disco didn't die, it was killed, by a rock (and some would say sexist, racist and ethnocentrist) backlash flogged on by evangelical furor. I'm not sure how to improve the passage above until I know what it means.--Erikacornia (talk) 05:50, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Um, no. Disco died because it went out of fashion, like so many other musical styles (think Doo Wop). Witness the changes that took place in Chic's sound from their late 70s albums like Risqué to their more funk/R&B/rock oriented early 80s efforts like Believer. Music evolved. Algabal (talk) 11:08, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, what killed Disco was two fold: the poor quality of Disco as was evident by Ehtel Mermen's Disco Album as a prime example. In the very late 70s, everyone got into the Disco mood and a good deal of what was released was pure and complete garbage; it was reduced to nothing more than repeatedly thumps.

Also, the emergence of AIDS killed the uniqueness of Disco...where you could out to dance and get lucky. Disco in the beginning was where you could go--be gay--mix with straights, and in general, be accepted. AIDS frightened gay and str8 alike, and the Disco was seen --as perhaps-- a haven for its spread? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.244.188.131 (talk) 19:21, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


The "poor quality of disco"?? That's up for debate, I would think. If you can honestly say Donna Summer's music is "pure and complete garbage" you obviously have no appreciation for music. As a matter of fact, disco as a genre mixes R&B beats with classical instruments and powerful vocals. That makes it richer than a genre that mixes haphazard electric guitars with hackneyed drum beats and vocals your might expect from your grandpa when he has a sore throat.
Furthermore, rock also has "repeated thumps"; they seem original only because they are backed by vocals lacking technical talent and repetitive passages that sound brand new if you play them on an electric guitar.
I agree with Erikacornia on the demise of Disco. And as for that sentence, yeah, it's totally weird.--Plavalagunanbanshee (talk) 14:26, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Disco did not die it was renamed Dance music HELLO!!!!66.108.106.248 (talk) 03:37, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Personal Life

Under personal life I put in specifics regarding the legal action Summer took and the outcome of those efforts as reported on the profile done on her by A&E's Biography program and that Donna participated. The earlier comment said she took legal action but did not specify against what newspaper, and said she won, which is false. Mhathaway (talk) 01:17, 6 June 2008 (UTC)Mhathaway