Talk:Donald Rumsfeld

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[edit] German prosecutor dimisses Rumsfeld war crimes case

Published: Friday April 27, 2007 Germany's federal prosecutor announced she will not be proceeding with an investigation against former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA Director George Tenet, and other high-ranking U.S. officials for torture and other war crimes committed in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantánamo, according to a press release obtained by RAW STORY.

Link to RAW STORY article

Article needs to be updated, but I don't have the skill. I'm putting above references in to alert those more skilled than me.--Raymm 01:47, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

The whole thing was absurd in the first place. German courts have no jurisdiction over American foreign policy.

128.138.173.224 01:06, 12 May 2007 (UTC)


they do though, as they have started an investigation and will bring their claims to the international criminal court where his trial will be taken under consideration, American policy or not Markthemac 07:03, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Torture is forbidden by international law, which means that every country, where Rumsfeld is traveling to, is obligated to investigate this case and possibly arrest him. See Pinochets arrest in the UK --Raphael1 18:34, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Clicking on "Wolfgang Kaleck" (the human rights lawyer who brought this case) on other pages, or typing his name into the search function on Wiki, brings you rather eerily to "Donald Rumsfeld"'s page. Unfortunately I can't work out how to change it, but perhaps someone cleverer than I could? Thanks. Ciggywink 20:52, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Age

The article currently reads:

He is both the youngest (43 years old) and the oldest (68 years old...

Since he held the position as recently as 2006, shouldn't we say that he was 74 years as the oldest position-holder? If no one objects, I intend to change this. Dylan 07:11, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Domestic life

That Rumsfeld lives at the plantation Mount Misery loses context since it was edited. Earlier versions should be restored.Robert B. Livingston 21:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nuclear Reactor Sales to north Korea

Can we include the London Guardian's reference of Donald Rumsfeld's involvement in the sale of nulcear reactors to North Korea in 2000, just two years before the Bush Administration's declaration of North Korea as part of the Axis of Evil. http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,952289,00.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lakeshorebaby (talk • contribs) 17:58, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Opening Line to Article as regards Profession

I would say this opening description of 'politician and businessman' is incomplete. He was also a White House Cabinet member (Cabinet members are not considered to be politicians, but rather Civil Service Presidential advisors in charge of Departments of the Government--so the word politician doesn't go far enough). He also had a long career as a Navy fighter pilot and served as well in different roles as a non-Cabinet Senior White House advisor. Also he is no longer any of those professions but is now retired so the article should say "was".

The sidebar seems to hit most of these points but they should also be in the opening sentence to the article.

I would suggest instead "...was the (numbers) Secretary of Defense, a senior White House advisor, a politician, the CEO of _________ and a Navy Fighter pilot for 20 years (get exact number of years). The details of course need to be filled in. Even those who have been critical of him on Iraq him have to concede that he had an incredible career, any one of these roles is quite an accomplishment. Give credit where credit is due.

Phil

Sean7phil 04:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

67.42.243.184 04:05, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Missing $2.3 Trillion

On September 10, 2001 declared war on the Pentagon bureaucracy. "The adversary is closer to home, it's the Pentagon bureaucracy." he said in the same speech that he cannot account for up to $2.3 Trillion that has been spent by the military. To see the video click here http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4437883523511945930&q=Rumsfeld+loses+trillion

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.220.70.217 (talk) 01:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

If you can't cite it, it doesn't matter. Just drop the issue. This page is not your soapbox. Will (Talk - contribs) 05:46, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
There:The War On Waste. Lovelight 14:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tag

The article's tag read Donald Rumsfled is a fucktag so I deleted the line. I hope this was the right thing to go.

Mikomax 14:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unused public domain image

Here is an orphaned PD-USGov image of Rumsfeld: Image:Rummy.jpg. --Strangerer (Talk) 21:26, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Birth Place

I see a birth place of Evanston in the infobox, and Chicago in the article. Which is correct?--Kranar drogin 02:57, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Michael Savage

Michael Savage said yesterday on his radio program tht Donald Rumsfeld still has an office in the Pentagon. Can anyone confirm or deny this? 75.44.20.8 20:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

The Washington Times writes:
On Jan. 4, Mr. Rumsfeld opened a government-provided transition office in Arlington and has seven Pentagon-paid staffers working for him, a Pentagon official said.
The Pentagon lists Mr. Rumsfeld as a "nonpaid consultant," a status he needs in order to review secret and top-secret documents, the official said.
--Raphael1 11:21, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 9/11 Response

Any good reason Rumsfeld's attempted rescue actions after the Pentagon was struck were left out of this article's section on "September 11"? I would like to include a sentence or two on his hurried response to the accident scene. 24.62.25.90 04:37, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rumsfeld Jewish?

Is Donald Rumsfeld Jewish? I ask because it doesn't say so in the article (a sure sign that he isn't) but I was under the impression, don't know why, that he is. Jewish ancestry? I am sure you can have the name Rumsfeld and not be Jewish but I was concerned it could have just been passed over.

In case anyone is wondering why it matters I am of the impression that ethnicity or religious persuasions are/or can be important factors. Maybe I am off, as an Australian I don't really understand the U.S. political ways.

Any how, i suppose it is just a simple YES/NO sort of thing. Is Rumsfeld Jewish?

ooh, sorry, forgot to sign that comment. Alexbonaro 15:04, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
I never heard anything about Rumsfeld being Jewish and I have no reason to believe that he is. I'm curious as to why you got that impression. Is it because his name ends in "feld"? Because he's a neoconservative? Either way, I never heard anything about his being Jewish. Sh76us 13:22, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Lol. I am not gonna lie, the feld was a selling point, but ofcourse Alfred Rosenberg was no Jew and it would be absurd to assume so because Rosenberg is also the name of some Jewish families. And his neo-conservative stance - and that of Paul Wolfowitz, his Jewish deputy - and the Jewishness of his two precedents for Secretary of Defense; James Schlesinger and William S. Cohen - was just another thing that made it come to mind. I had also seen him being called a Jew on some racist forums and in the Eastern media. I looked more into it though and there is nothing substantial to suggest he is. Alexbonaro 09:58, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Actually, a lot of names that many people associate with being Jewish are actually German. Names like Schwartz, Rosenberg, Stein, Weiss, etc. are all German names. In the USA, because there are so many Jews of German descent, it's almost assumed that people with these names are Jewish (and they very often are); but there are also plenty of non-Jewish Germans that have these names. Of course, there are some names (Cohen, Katz, Rappaport, to name a few) that are virtually certain to be Jewish- but the German names are not among them. Sh76us 15:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] controversial?

In first section of the BBC Profile: Donald Rumsfeld calls him the the most controversial defence secretary in US history[1]. IMHO that's enough to call him controversial in the lead section. --Raphael1 23:06, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Not even close. The article states "And he was probably also the most controversial." There is a huge difference between the two. If you want to mention it somewhere in the lead, I wouldn't oppose it's inclusion, but to state "Donald Henry Rumsfeld (born July 9, 1932) is a controversial U.S. Republican politician and businessman" as you've tried is not acceptable. Rumsfeld is not notable because he is controversial; he's notable due to the positions he's held in US Government. Adding a sentence to end of the second paragraph along the lines of "Rumsfeld is considered to be one of the most controversial defense secretaries in US history"[2]" would be properly sourced and within NPOV. - auburnpilot talk 23:14, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Why "one of the most"? I'd suggest adding to the 2nd paragraph "He is considered to be the most controversial defense secretary in US history." --Raphael1 23:27, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Slip of the keyboard; removing "one of the most" is more accurate, and I've made the change. - auburnpilot talk 23:35, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. --Raphael1 23:47, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

By WHOM is Rumsfeld considered most controversial? Not by me. Perhaps by left-leaning wikieditor? Statements like this are a sneaky way for the author to insert his opinion (by ascribing it to others or to a consensus.) Realize that there are a lot of us Red Staters out here. Bush got elected in 2004 by us. Not everyone reads DKOS and listens to NPR. Or watches the Daily Show.TCO 00:58, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aspartame Link

Can someone add a section detailing Rumsfeld's efforts to get Aspartame approved under the Reagan administration, and his economic links to the G.D. Searle Company - I'm at work right now and can't - I'll probably do some research later and add to it.

Chris  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.195.227.146 (talk) 15:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I hadn't seen the article under his career. Maybe it should have an additional heading. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.195.227.146 (talk) 16:00, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Remove offensive comment from Donald Rumsfeld page

Please remove the following comment from the Donald Rumsfeld page.

"HES A DUMB ASS FUCKER FUCK HIS KIDS."

It degrades the effectiveness of Wikipedia.

171.64.131.101 19:51, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is there a source for the statement that Rumsfeld has gotten a 1-yr job at Stanford (Hoover Inst)?

I'd like to see the source (and read the article myself). I recently heard on local news radio that he was *offered* a post, but that there was a petition circulating among students and faculty protesting that appointment. Can anyone with better information footnote this, please? Rousse 22:59, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Each article I just glanced at after a search on Google News refers to him as already being appointed. (results) Most of the current sources also discuss the online petition. - auburnpilot talk 23:04, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] another affiliation?

i didn't see any mention of his involvement with the Bilderberg Group, i believe it speaks volumes about his power and influence. anyway, just a thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.63.252.99 (talk) 15:22, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Terrorist

Nowhere in the linked article is Rumsfeld referred to as a terrorist. - auburnpilot talk 17:10, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Snowflakes

Rumsfeld's "snowflakes" (memos) should be discussed in the article. Washington post article. Badagnani 06:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] let's cut the "considered by some" crap

A. It's a facade: what it really means is...I, the writer, think this. B. The "some" is not specified. C. It's not noteworthy. D. We could also find "some" with an opposite view. E. The "some" are always DKOSacks who don't like Bush or Rumsfeld or what have you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TCO (talk • contribs) 05:23, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rummy

I've reverted the addition of "Rummy" to the introduction and infobox as it is not a common name for Rumsfeld, even if it is used by some. Think of it this way, we don't add Dubya to George W. Bush's name or Bubba to Bill Clinton's, but we add Bill to Clinton's (in addition to William) and Al to Al Gore's (in addition to Albert). A common name is quite different than a nickname. - auburnpilot talk 15:18, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

There's a huge difference. "Dubya" is extremely informal and not widely used among his colleagues, but "Rummy" is a bona fide nickname used professionally, as the sources show. In fact, there are more Google hits for Rummy Rumsfeld (352,000) than for Dubya Bush (282,000)! It is reasonable to expect people to be looking this sort of thing up, so I am replacing the nickname. MilesAgain (talk) 16:02, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
First, please see WP:BRD. You seem to be missing the point entirely. We do not put nicknames in the infobox or first line of the introduction. Rummy, like Dubya, is a nickname and should not included. This has nothing to do with how many people use the nickname, but the fact that it isn't used as his common name in the way Bill is for Clinton, Al for Gore, or Dick for Cheney. It is improper for rummy to be placed in the intro and infobox. - auburnpilot talk 16:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
What does WP:BRD have to do with this? WP:MOSBIO suggests including well-known nicknames, but doesn't give an example of an inline nickname. I'll ask at WT:MOSBIO. MilesAgain (talk) 18:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
BRD is how this should have proceeded. You make a change, I revert it, then we discuss. By the BRD cycle, you should not have then re-added your edit until a compromise was reached. The BRD cycle, when followed, prevents edit wars and allows for consensus to be reached. But that's beside the point and we can continue this discussion at WT:MOSBIO for now. - auburnpilot talk 00:42, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Asked at WT:MOSBIO#Lead names. MilesAgain (talk) 19:48, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Great, I've left a comment there. - auburnpilot talk 00:42, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
Incidentally, the google results noted above are not correct. The proper searches should be for "Rummy Rumsfeld" and "Dubya Bush" (in quotations). These searches result in 2,390 hits for Rummy and 116,000 for Dubya. Without placing them in quotations, some of the results linked above did not always include but Rummy and Rumsfeld or Dubya and Bush. - auburnpilot talk 14:33, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] My deletions

I deleted a whole bunch of stuff recently. The reason has nothing to do with politics, beliefs, agendas or any of that. The reason was simple. After dealing in "big facts" for quite a while, the entry suddenly gets bogged down in minutia and "small facts." The information presented (each and every lawsuit, for example) is not significant in the grand scheme of things. Being aware that Rumsfeld is controvercial, I deleted it because all of this material is negative, apparently the work of folks bent on presenting a case against the man with factually accurate, yet relatively insiginficant detail compared to the rest of the entry. I'm sure there are lots of facts that can be listed here, such as his grade in algebra, the first girl he kissed, how many Cubs games he attended as a kid, etc., but a line needs to be drawn when editing (I am a professional editor). In this case, there are so many "big facts", the dispropotionate attention to "smaller facts" cheapens the overall flow. If others disagree, that's fine and that's what this site is for, I guess. But I think it reads better without the overload of detail about relatively insignificant facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.96.247 (talk) 15:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)