Talk:Don't Let's Be Beastly to the Germans

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The cross referencs in this song are quite fun, but in my opinion some are not really appropiate in the context of an encyclopedia. for example Witschaftswunder and Marshal plan are referenced, giving the impression that the song refers to thos historic events, which of course it does not, as those occured years later --77.177.16.163 23:38, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lyrics

I took the lyrics back out again. There are two reasons for doing so. Firstly, the copyright. The recent edit summary seemed to suggest it was "brit gov public domain" - I think that must mean Crown Copyright, but I don't see how it can be. It'll be Noel Coward's copyright, and it'll expire in 2043. Secondly, Wikipedia isn't for lyrics or things like that. --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 12:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

After reading up on it .. the lyrics area of copyright law is a bit hazy. I have however started drafting a permission request email. But don't really know whether i'm asking for GNFL or fair use. What approach do you think i should take? In the email i've asked what the legal status of the lyrics and song is. Obviously a popular wartime song, i wonder.

Wikipedia:Example requests for permission

Wikipedia:Image copyright tags

--maxrspct ping me 19:05, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't know who hold the copyrights - I don't know how to get hold of Noel Coward's estate. It's all beside the point, though, because the lyrics to the song shouldn't be in the article anyway. The Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not page is very clear: Wikipedia is not a lyrics database. --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 20:05, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, there are exemptions: "Exceptions include traditional songs whose lyrics are in the public domain. However, even in this case the article may not consist solely of the lyrics, but has to primarily contain information about authorship, date of publication, social impact, etc." And this is obviously a popular wartime song full of social commentary. Yes the status is unsure. I will email the Noel Coward society. --maxrspct ping me 20:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

If you do get permission to release the source as public domain or GFDL, then you could post it on Wikisource. --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 10:44, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

You've added the lyrics again. Since we don't agree on this I think it's probably best if I ask for a third opinion. --HughCharlesParker (talk - contribs) 12:44, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Third Opinion

I feel I must agree with Hughcharlesparker, on the copyright issue at least. At this time, and until a permission to distribute the lyrics under GFDL or public domain can be secured, the lyrics must remain off the page. The copyright policy is very clear on the matter, and acting otherwise can place the Wikimedia Foundation in a difficult legal position. I've removed the lyrics from the article as current copyvio.

There is a valid argument that the song is culturally significant, however, so that after permission has been secured, it wouldn't be unreasonable to include the lyrics in the article. Note that the exception in WP:NOT#LYRICS is clear that traditional songs in the public domain are automatically exempt. This song doesn't qualify for that exception, however (it's not in the public domain, and doesn't fall under what most people would call a "traditional song"). — Coren ^(talk) 14:16, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

(Edit conflict)
Response to request at 3O: This issue has arisen before, and no doubt will do so again. Lyrics, when the copyright still applies, should not be reproduced verbatim. This is distinct from taking a limited number of selective contextual quotes from a copyrighted work (such as a book) for the purposes of describing that work, the author, or a related point, etc. I can appreciate that the lyrics would be a nice addition – if copyright did not apply, I would like to see them in this and other articles about particularly noteworthy songs. But copyright does apply, and must be respected. Adrian M. H. 14:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)