Talk:Domenico Scarlatti

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Is there any evidence to suggest that Bach's Goldberg Variations were actually influenced by the Scarlatti's sonatas? The sonatas are not variations on a common theme like the Goldbergs, although they have some similarity in form to an individual variation (AA-BB). Is it known if JSB had access to the Scarlatti sonatas? If not, I suggest that the reference to the Goldbergs is removed? Does anyone know where this idea originated?

I'd suggest that their form is :a b (in new key, sometimes related to a): :c (relates to a or to b) b':, and is a precursor if anything of sonata form rather. (This is true of certain other works of the period, I agree.) Don't know about the rest, I knew Brahms had a collection of Scarlatti but not whether JS Bach did... worth looking into. Schissel : bowl listen 14:01, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
It is not so much about form, really, it is about the technical similarities (the crossing of the hands). Even so, both the Scarlatti Sonatas and the Goldbergs are in binary form, essentially A:B, but you repeat both halves, so really it is A : A : B : B. I agree that there is no evidence, however, that Bach was actually "under the influence." (Haha alcohol pun intended.) --Patrick 01:52, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

You are correct pointing out that Brahms was a well known admirer of Scarlatti and had editions of his works - he even quoted the theme of Kk 223(?) in the opening of one of his songs (Unuberwindlich Op.72 No.5). I think I recall reading somewhere that Chopin was also an admirer. But--- I don't think we will ever know for sure if JSB was aware of Scarlatti's works, and on balance I think it has to be considered unlikely for the following reasons: 1. Scarlatti was essentially isolated in the service of Barbara. 2. All communications were comparitively very poor in the late 18C. 3. Very little of Scarlatti's works were published in JSB's lifetime. 4. I still can't see a direct link between the two (the basic form is not uncommon) - perhaps someone can point it out please!? Personally, I think that the supposed influence of Scarlatti on the Goldbergs is yet another myth associated with this astonishing work (along with a whole load of supposed "numerology" and other weird stuff - which would surely have hugely amused JSB!). Scarlatti's sonatas are surely great enough to stand on their own without having to be considered an influence on the (even greater) Goldbergs? --bobg1756 09:33, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

About the note on Chopin, I remember Vladimir Horowitz once said that Chopin's students asked their teacher why they always had to play Scarlatti. Chopin replied something like that one day, Scarlatti would be in the repertoire of all concert pianists. And now that's true. — Pladask 09:50, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

The supposition that JSB wasn't aware of Scarlatti's works doesn't hold up for several good counts. Scarlatti was widely known while in the service of the Queen and, late in life, he retired enough from his work to travel a great deal. Communications may have been poor in the late 18th century, but not impossible. JSB was a very astute politician as well as a musician: he kept track of all potential rivals and he was certainly very aware of the works of his Italian contemporaries, especially Vivaldi and Marcello, enough to write numerous transcriptions of their compositions. As for the lack of published scores, that is not a great obstacle. Many works were copied by hand, either from the original manuscript or by musicians who memorized the score after hearing it performed, and circulated that way. But a better argument that Scarlatti didn't influence JSB is a matter of style and form: a glance at their scores and biographies show two men opposite in countless ways, both stylistically and in personality. Also, Scarlatti showed no interest that I know of in theme and variations or the other forms Bach used regularly. Scarlatti and Bach were great within their own respective realms, and while probably aware of each other, it's doubtful that one exterted any noticeable influence on the other. --Mhare40 21:26, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Recordings of the Sonatas

What are the criteria for including recordings and performers in this section? Why Fabio Bonizzoni and not, say, Wanda Landowska? There's been a lengthy list of estimable performers and discographies are available elsewhere (hypocritically says an editor who's started and contributed to many lists indeed here, but it seems that this is intended to be a selective list.) Schissel : bowl listen 16:48, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

I've rewritten into a regular paragraph. This way it's easier to keep the number of musicians down to a selected few (perhaps based on ... well ... "notability" or "famousness" or whatever). Do you like this better? Feel free to add/re-add names. — Pladask 20:38, July 15, 2005 (UTC)

For various reasons, the listing of pianists who have recorded Scarlatti is sparse. There are some whose Scarlatti recordings are almost legendary: Dinu Lipatti, Myra Hess, Clara Haskil, Vladimir Horowitz, Ivo Pogorelich, Mikhail Pletnev, John Browning, and Alexis Weissenberg. Among harpsicordists, the list is even more select. I suppose it comes down to pointing out the most notable or famous, which is difficult because Scarlatti seems to attract the best artists. Mhare40

[edit] good article

Lots of excellent information and a nice read; very satisfying to this Scarlatti fan (who didn't know all the trivia). I value Scarlatti's "outsider" status in the classical music canon and am pleased to see that reflected here.

I have some questions: how good a keyboardist was Princess Barbara? Her own entry says she "had a fine education and loved music," but isn't more specific. Were the famous "Essercizi" (Sonatas) written for her use, as piano students are traditionally told, or do they more accurately reflect Scarlatti's own virtuosic abilities? The origins of the "Essercizi" are shrouded in myth, at least for me. Does anyone have any better sources? Sandover 18:45, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I was planning to start an article on them ... I'll push it closer to the top of my queue! — Stumps 20:11, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scarlatti's Age

Scarlatti was most prolific and creative beginning in his 50's, which is highly unusual for anyone, let alone a composer or artist. I wonder if this article can mention that somehow. Great article by the way.

[edit] Wiki-ffiti

I very much doubt Domenico Scarlatti is officially identified as a "poopy-head", I suggest this for editing.

It was missed vandalism, but it's fixed now--thanks for noticing it. Antandrus (talk) 15:20, 7 May 2007 (UTC)