Talk:Dom people

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Contents 1 Removal of the statement about Dom being same as Rom(a) 2 "related groups" info removed from infobox 3 Evidence that Dom and Romani people are not related 4 The Domari originally accepted into Persian empire as musicians 5 Lies, Dom = Rom = The same 6 Thank you 7 Indian Origin

[edit] Removal of the statement about Dom being same as Rom(a)

I propose that unless someone can provide a good reason, the (apparently false) statement about the Dom/Rom relationship be removed from both this page and the Roma People page.

From Dr W.R. Rishi in regard to the Roma:

"Please do not - repeat - not connect them with the Doms, a lower case in India. Please do not distort their name to be pronounced and written as "Rrom" and thus do not falsify their history. It is the duty if Romani media to use ROM as their proper name and not "Rrom" as wrongly advocated by so called "neo-linguists"."

from Roma Nos 42-43, January-July 1995

(But I got it from: http://www.romani.org/rishi/romrroma.html )—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 60.240.91.230 (talk • contribs) 13:06, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I disagree. I don't think it's appropriate not to mention the fact that the Dom are universally regarded as part of the larger Roma ethnic group, though you may want to add that some Roma don't consider themselves connected with the Dom. The Dom of this article are not simply a "lower caste" in India. This article deals mainly with the groups outside India. Linguistic research shows that the Domari and Romani languages split from a common ancestor in the distant past. See the Dom Research Center for more information about the Dom's relationship to the Roma. — [zɪʔɾɪdəʰ] · ☥ 21:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 21:16, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Evidence that Dom and Romani people are not related

The Romani language is from a much later time period of India than that of the Domari original source. The Romani language is very much a Rajasthani language that has gone through Panjabi regional changes. The Domari language is from a different origin to Romani and is more Hindi based.

I will give example

        ENGLISH         ROMANI          PANJABI          HINDI          DOMARI
        Brother         Phral / Phal*   Phra / Pha (ji)  Bhai           Bharos 
        Sister          Phen            Phen             Bhen           Bhenos
        Horse           Khuro           Khora            Ghora          Ghoryos
        There           Ote             Ote              Udhar          Hundar

        * The English Roms gave the English the word 'Pal' for friend.

I must wonder why... because is taken from english maybe? I see the similarities between the languages obvius, why are you trying to lie?

In addition to this Romani uses the Rajasthani / Rajputi mascaline 'o' at the end of words whereas Domari like most other Hindi styled languages use the normal 'a'.

e.g.

        ENGLISH          ROMANI          RAJASTHANI         
        Uncle            Kako            Kako           (Domari = Mamun)
        Fat man          Thulo           Thelo
        Hot              Tato            Tato
        Infant boy       Tikno           Tingar
        My               Miro            Mero           (Domari = Mura, Hindi = Mera)
        Dirty / greasy   Chikno          Chikano

[edit] The Domari originally accepted into Persian empire as musicians

It is a fair possibility that the Domi were the same people mentioned in the document dated 961AD written by Persian historian Hamza al-Isfahani reporting that between 429-438AD Shah Bahram V. Gur brought 12,000 Luri singers to Persian from India.

Amongst Gurbati Doms of Iran and Afghanisthan there are many similar tales to the one descibed by Hamza. Some exactly identical and others similar such as saying they descend from a Persian King who disrespected the prophet Mohammed and so were condemned to a nomadic life.

The Luri it seems became an acepted part of the Persian empire who would have been part of the Persian people at the time that Islam advanced upon the land. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.227.166 (talk) 20:47, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lies, Dom = Rom = The same

What a bunch of lies... are you seriosus with that source? the hungarian-"doma" Ian Hancock is trying fo falsify history, it can't be taken as a source, any hungarian related sources regarding Gypsies are not reliabe. Hungarians are Romanians most fiercefull enemies and their interest is to proove the name of gypsies is "romani" .

Philologists, who study and analyse languages and their origins, have compared the language that the gypsies speak with Indian languages, and suggest from the similarities that the gypsies originated in the Gangetic plains, from a low caste called Doms and are thus called Roma. This is what the gypsies call themselves, hence the term Roma or Romani gypsies — no connection to Rome or Romania.

http://www.hindu.com/seta/2005/11/17/stories/2005111700041500.htm

Fact supported by Gypsy Linguist from Romania

http://www.cotidianul.ro/index.php?id=15509&art=38690&cHash=e875537b68

Dupa cea mai bine documentata ipoteza [nota 4], termenul provine din cuvantul prakrit "dom" (cu d celebralizat), care insemna "om" si se referea, pe de-o parte, la imigrantii indieni provenind din diverse grupuri etnice, care s-au amestecat si au realizat casatorii mixte in Persia, formandu-se ca popor acolo si pornind apoi spre Europa, iar, pe de alta parte, la un subgrup etnic din India, care exista si astazi.

The most well documented theory is that the term "rom" comes from prakrit "dom" which means man and it reffers on one part of the indian emmigrants coming from varius ethnic groups which mixed in Persia then aheading Europe. On the other part is an indian subgroup from India even in present.

so the connection between rom and dom is evident. "rom" doesn't exist in gypsy language, the real word is dom. When this lies will stop ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Adrianzax (talk • contribs) 14:18, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Actaully I am from a Romani family of Europe and I am fluent in the Romani jib (tongue). Rom in Romani means 'Husband'. Manush means 'man'. The Sanskrit word Raman also means Husband. Romani for son is 'Chavo' and a non-romani boy is Raklo. Phral / Phal (from Panjabi - phra / Pha) means brother. Phen (from Panjabi Phen) means sister. These words in Domari are from a different India root as are many more.

It is the Dom = Rom lies that must stop. If Roms & Doms are related then they are related from before leaving India as there paths since leaving India are proven to not be the same. Roms did not break away from Doms as this is definetely proven to not be the case. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.227.166 (talk) 23:56, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

Thank you for being correct in the discription and not calling these people "Gypsies" as they have never been to Europe and were mistaken as being Egyptian. There is no evidence to prove any connection between Doms of Asia and the Romani people of Europe other than an Indian origin. There is however evidence to prove the languages have different Indian origins. Many of the Romani words and grammar are of different Indian origin to the Domari words.

Thankyou. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.227.166 (talk) 23:47, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Indian Origin

If they are of Indian origin, there is hardly anything in the article itself pointing to this. And also, they are NOT the same as the Romani people. --Maurice45 (talk) 15:50, 4 April 2008 (UTC)