Talk:Dogma (film)

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Contents

[edit] Bush Referrence

*"In the wake of said attack, the leader of the "Free World" outed himself as pretty damned Christian." -Eh? when was Bush not ready to say he was a born-again Christian? You'd have to be pretty unaware of the man's beliefs to not know that prior to 11-9.

- Yes and no, he wasn't officially making policy based on "Jesus" before 9/11. That's really where it starts being relevant.

I dont think its a reference since very few people cared about Bush in 1999, seeing as he became president in 01.

[edit] Bethany Name Origin

Isn't Bethany a descendent of Mary, not directly of Jesus?

Who the hell cares?

Yeah, Bethany is Jesus' half sister, daughter of Mary and Joseph.

Bethandy is a place name, at least in the Bible. DaveTroy

[edit] Fuck Rate

The word "fuck" is used 120 times in the film, a rough average of about .92 times per minute.

and the film is 130 minutes in length?

According to the booklet accompanying the DVD, it's approx. 128 mins.--Absurdity 20:58, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to have a "fuck" rate? "0.82 "fuck"s per minute" is a silly way of demonstrating that there is a lot of swearing in this film. Also, is this sort of thing that needs a source? I'm not sure if a count goes into original research or not. --Transfinite (Talk / Contribs) 03:53, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bethany's Decendant Status

'the only living descendant of Mary and thus the only living relative of Jesus Christ,'

It never said she was a direct descendent of Jesus. Or even a descendent of Jesus.

  • In fact, Rufus explictly described her as Christ's great great great (...) great niece. - SkarmoryThePG 15:00, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bartleby's Status

Where in the movie did it say Bartleby was a Grigori? I don't remember this

during the chat with the messenger at the restaurant in beth's dream.

[edit] Incorrect Plothole

Somebody added a bit to the trivia section pointing out a plothole (Saying that, since B & L were forbidden to reenter heaven as angels, it wouldn't matter if they entered as human and therefore there was no reason to keep them out), but that was inaccurate. They were forbidden to re-enter heaven, period. There was no mention of whether or not they had to be in any specific form, so even being human would have destroyed existence. JBK405 03:38, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

The article also says that Dogma occurs after Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, and that JASBSB takes place around the same time as Clerks and Mallrats, which I don't think is true.

[edit] Odd

"Over time, the filmmakers received over 300,000 pieces of hate mail including two-and-a-half death threats."
If I may be so bold, what precisely constitutes "half" of a death threat?

Ruthfulbarbarity 17:38, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess it's what is mentioned in the first paragraph of "Controversy", where he states that one letter started off threateningly, but became nicer, later on. --Alcalde 19:42, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cult

Why is this listed as a cult film? 75.132.21.149 02:24, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I assume they meant cult popularity, not cult cult.

[edit] Dogma as in Dogville

Shouldn't "Dogma (film)" point to the article about "dogma style" in filmmaking, the method and art ideology invented by director Lars von Trier? It is one of the most significant movements in art film making, many other directors follow this rule, especially in Europe. This Kevin Smith Dogma comedy is perfectly unknown and insignificant, nobody heard about it in Europe. 195.70.32.136 13:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

That is dogme. --ZimZalaBim (talk) 12:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually Dogme 95.--Absurdity 18:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References to other films

Why are there references to films which had not been made when Dogma was produced? Surely the other films are referencing this one, not the other way round... Dave420 21:51, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

What I'm wondering is why the Indiana Jones "no ticket" reference occurs in both lists and several movies seem to be "other media" instead of being listing as "films" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.176.8.18 (talk) 17:27, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Section?

In the film, there are possible inconstitancies with religious mythology, for example: Azrael is actually one of the names of the Angel of Death; "Watchers" as a group were actually banished from heaven quite a time before the events depicted or mentioned in the film (and the reason for the Great Flood). Another is that the role of Metatron in the movie seems to be based mostly on the character's role in Good Omens, and that Metatron is considered somewhat ambigious, given that there "is no consensus as to his genesis or the role that he plays in the hierarchy of Heaven and Hell" (taken from the page on Metatron). (Note: I'm not saying that Kevin Smith explicitely stole the character, he gives credit to Neil Gaiman (co-author of Good Omens, along with Terry Pratchett) as one of the sources of inspiration for the film.)

Does anyone else think there should be a new section detailing any of this? I'm proposing the idea here simply because there are many more, and I may not be aware of all of them. --Absurdity 07:38, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand the need. In Norse Mythology, Thor didn't run around with a red cape and hubcaps on his chest, yet he does in the Marvel Comic books. If Kevin Smith wants to make a movie saying that Heaven is in Cleveland and Hell is in Belize, then, in the context of the movie, Hell is in Belize. And then Kevin Smith will be sued by the Belize goverment. Lots42 20:33, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dogma is Dogshit

Does anyone know if a video of this exists on the internet? --Discharger12 01:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Check YouTube. --user.lain 23:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
http://glumbert.com/media/dogmaprotest Yeah. I'm removing the citation needed tag. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.199.221.0 (talk) 17:28, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Demon hockey players or just teenagers?

Under the description of Jay and Silent Bob, it says they saved Bethany from "demon hockey players". I think it would be more clear if they were simply referred to as "The demon triplets" or "the demon teenagers", as they do not play hockey so much as use the equipment to attack people. Noodlysoup 03:27, 24 January 2007 (UTC)


How about "Hockey Demons"?

--Xinjinbei 21:19, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Demon hockey players sounds right. They -look- like hockey players... Lots42 20:35, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] So which is it?

[...]Though this may seem like an error, it is not, due to the fact that in the View Askewniverse timeline, Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back occurs before Dogma. However, Strike Back does NOT occur before Dogma as Strike Back had various references from Dogma in the movie[...]

The way these two statements directly contradict themselves is bizarre... on what grounds does Dogma take place after J&SBSB? - furrykef (Talk at me) 22:48, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Song's name

What's the song playing when Bethany, Jay and Silent Bob are in the restaurant? --Xinjinbei 21:17, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

"Magic Moments" by Perry Como.
Thanks, i thought he was singing: baaaaadge....hooooomer.--Xinjinbei 00:20, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] censorship

in the beginnig paragraph they censor a few curse words. I am removing this, due to wikipedia not being censored.66.176.172.119 05:41, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Suggestion

I think the Characters section should be merged into the plot section. Or at least, most of the info. Lots42 16:58, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] There is one thing that I would like to know...

What was the beef with Linda Fiorentino ?? Did she pull a Lily Tomlin on set or what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.77.18.82 (talk) 14:14, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

If it matters, which I do not think it does, any diva info should go on Linda's article. Of course, considering libel restrictions.... Lots42 (talk) 03:21, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Plot

The plot summary was an overlong blow-by-blow account of the film, and rather difficult to read. I've replaced it with a briefer summary from this earlier revision of the article. --Tony Sidaway 05:26, 23 January 2008 (UTC)