Talk:Doctor Doom

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Doctor Doom was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

^{Reviewed version: March 30, 2008}

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[edit] African American Studies

I really doubt that Doom received a degree in African American Studies from Stanford. I think this is a joke for three reasons: 1. The incongruent nature of the statement in the context of the article and Doom's character, 2. The fact that the book cited was supposedly written by Chris Byrne in 1972, a time when Byrne was only writing much smaller name comics, and 3. This is likely a joke on Byrne's tendency to write out of character. I'll delete the statement and the citation for now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.67.174 (talk) 06:49, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Slanted Language

I believe this is slanted language: "His ruling of the small nation of Latveria provides him with diplomatic immunity, an ingenious plot device never used before in comics". I don't think it's the place of Wikipedia to judge whether a plot device is ingenious or not. 66.189.36.149 01:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Third Person

Why does Doom refer to himself in third person? Is that just because he is an uber narcasist?

He is royalty and talking in a rather oldish and dramatic style. People in position like that tended to do that sort of thing. -Oneiros

[edit] Darth Vader

It seems likely that Doom was a prototype for Darth Vader. Part of the character's hook is wondering just what he has hidden under that mask. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.113.216.25 (talk • contribs) 20:02, 21 February 2003 (UTC)

George Lucas has indeed acknowledged the influence of Doom in creating Vader. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Timrollpickering (talk • contribs) 15:29, 10 January 2004 (UTC)

That certainly seems evident, but it really needs a citation -- preferably a quote from one of the countless articles, interviews and books in which Lucas is quoted. Also, don't forget to sign your posts! - Tenebrae 05:26, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 'Doctor'?

If Doctor Doom was expelled from college, where did he get his degree? -- Smerdis of Tlön 17:05, 15 Jan 2004 (UTC)

He doesn't have one. But when the second-strongest sorcerer on Earth, who also happens to command legions of robotic minions and is wearing atomic-powered armour, tells you his name is Doctor Doom, you call him doctor. :) Bryan 05:25, 16 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Most recent appearances skip the "Doctor" part (for instance, "Unthinkable" by Mark Waid). Everyone calls him, or refers to him as "Doom", except for Reed Richards, who calls him "Victor" (they knew each other in college). He was called "Doctor Doom" in the 60s because Stan Lee loved alliterations (Peter Parker, Reed Richards, Susan Storm, Matt Murdock, Bruce Banner), not because it made any sense. :) Dehumanizer 22:36, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Are there any other "adaptations" of Doctor Doom? --Feitclub 03:40, Nov 5, 2004 (UTC)

I highly recommend the MF Doom albums mentioned in the article. Doom is an amazing rapper, and he has produced several incredible albums in the last few years.

Who is to say that Doom did not confer upon himself a doctorate from a Latverian university? - User:Sh@z@m

[edit] Characteristics

RE: his use of scientific and magical genius for evil, his eerie name, and his penchant for speaking in a melodramatic manner — have often been copied and parodied.

Actually, this stuff was around and being copied and parodied for years and years before Doom. Fu Manchu, Ming the Merciless, Sherlock Holmes' nemesis Moriarty ... this list goes on. As do the villains! :-) - Tenebrae 05:26, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

When has the Punisher ever encountered the Doomster?

Here is a question - what is Doctor Doom's current status ? is he alive , is he dead , is he trapped in anothe dimension ? becouse in House of M he was alive and well ... but then again , in house of m the dead gwen stacy , and other guys were resurrected...... so.......... if anyone can help me ,thank you :)

AFAIK he's in hell atm XSpaceyx 18:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Last time he was seen in the normal Fantastic Four ongoing, it ended with him being in Hell for failing to live up to his deal with some demons, or slighting them, or failing them or something. However, I heard that Doom (the real thing, not yet another Doom-bot) recently killed off Squirrel Girl, but from reading the Wiki article I obviously wasn't listening too closely when my friend told me that, or he was wrong. Satan's Rubber Duck 11:54, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Well this article isn't so updated.. 193.13.57.88 12:04, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand, having the article updated to the current issue is going to spoil anyone looking for a little bit of background info on a character they may have never met before. Satan's Rubber Duck 17:54, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Power cosmic?

Anyone know how many times he has actually aquired the power cosmic or any other cosmic power for that matter? So far I can only remember twice, Galactus and Beyonder.

He's also taken it from the Silver Surfer. Dr Archeville 18:55, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

He's stolen power from Uatu the Watcher before, and IIRC, also Terrax at least once. --Metaphysician

Doom is currently in hell. Even so he has allied Latveria with the nation of Wakanda in a battle against the coming globalization imposed by the Super Human Registration Act in the United States. Wakanda is ruled by The Black Panther and his new Wife Storm AKA Ororo Monroe. cyph mon may5 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.171.241.207 (talk) 20:20, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Question

I seem to recall hearing Dr Doom is from Latvia. Am I just nuts?

Latveria, a fictionalized Eastern European nation based on, among others, Latvia. --Rocketgoat 06:16, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 'Machines of Doom' Article?

Would it be in Wikipedia's purview to make a page listing & describing all the 100+ gadgets Dr. Doom has used in his decades of comic life? There are pages for Captain America's shield and Thor's hamme Mjolnir (and I'm working on one for the Armors of Iron Man), so it would seem to me that there is some precedent for such an aticle. Dr Archeville 19:01, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, I say go for it.

User:TheEditor367

[edit] Runaways

Dr. Doom also figures prominently in the storyline of the comic Runaways, starting in issue 4. Someone want to add this somewhere? I don't think I know enough to be qualified to do it. There are some details on the Ultron page. aubrey 04:01, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dr. Dooms from other Fox Comics and DC Comics

An anon user moved this to trivia which I subsequently restored to the top of the article. Since the Fox and DC Comics' Dr. Dooms are extremely unlikely to develop their own pages on wikipedia (particularly the DC Comics' Dr. Doom) it seems appropriate that these characters be mentioned up front in the article for anyone who may be searching for whatever information wikipedia may have on the other Dr. Dooms. Burying it under a trivia section makes them almost not worth mentioning in the article at all, and anyone looking for information on these Dr. Dooms from rival comic publishers will undoubtedly look for them here. The original paragraph including the info on Fox Comics Dr. Doom and Marvel's Dr. Droom have been there for a long time, but I recently added the information on DC Comics' Dr. Doom after digging up my old copy of Detective Comics #158. My conjecture is that DC kept their Dr. Doom obscure so as to avoid a copyright fight with Marvel. What do others think about where this information about other Dr. Dooms should be placed?-- Cardinal Newman 05:08, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Did Dr. Doom exist before Civil War?

The publication history of the character needs to be filled out, and also a mention of doombots would be nice. I don't know enough about Dr. Doom to be much help with this. --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 22:23, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Hunh? In his info box it says his first appearance was July 1962, well before the Civil War story arc. --Dr Archeville 21:28, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mangaverse

I think I remember he was a black woman in the mangaverse, the sister to the black panther or something like that, but I can't remember well. Anyone willing to fill? --SidiLemine 13:36, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alias

Doctor Doom once used the third Invincible Man as an alias. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.136.11.242 (talk • contribs) 03:34, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Can you cite this? When and where did he use this alias? --GentlemanGhost 04:18, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stephen King references

Since Eddie Dean came from 1987, how would he know about Harry Potter? speaking of which, do we need two references to Dark Tower? they should be merged, or the inferior one removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.136.11.242 (talk) 04:27, 8 January 2007

Thanks for catching these. I removed one of the Dark Tower references (it was in the wrong section anyway). Also the bit about Harry Potter and lightsabers has nothing to do with Dr. Doom, so I excised it from the article altogether. --GentlemanGhost 04:11, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Magical Power Level

The article states that Doom is next in line for the title of Sorcerer Supreme. However, other than the Unthinkable story line in which his magical powers were supplemented, Doom has never shown magical abilities that would put him ahead of the likes of Baron Mordo, Morgan Le Fey, Hellstorm, or Doctor Druid (not an exhaustive list). And even in the Unthinkable story line it is made clear that without the demon's granting him additional power that his abilities were quite limited.

The closest that I'm aware of Doom being listed as number two are in the Doctor Doom/Strange graphic novel where Doom came in second in a magical contest. However, Doom and Strange were the only notables entered in that contest.Gethe 02:07, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

This assertion does indeed come from the Doctor Doom/Strange graphic novel, entitled "Triumph and Torment" where Doom, Strange, and many other magicians in the Marvel Universe competed for the title of sorcerer supreme at the behest of the Vishanti. Doom freely admits before the contest takes place that he is not adept at some of the others present in the ways of magic, but is allowed to participate anyway. The result of the contest can roughly be interpreted as putting Doom in second place, and it is for this reason it is often said he is next in line as Sorcerer Supreme. In the events that followed in the same story, however, Dr. Strange apparently taught Doom a great deal about magical combat, enough for them to survive in Mephisto's hellish dimension. For all these reasons it is reasonable to assume that if Dr. Strange were dispatched Dr. Doom could very well be next in line for his title, or at least in the running.

[edit] Don't violate policy

Don't delete comments you don't agree with. It's against wikipedia policy. Thanks. 72.144.71.193 04:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Face?

I'm sure they have at some point, but has his face ever been clearly shown in 616 continuity? If so, that might be a good panel/page to track down and put on the article, his supposed disfigurement is a fairly large part of his character.

No, it is tradition that it has not been clearly shown.

Hey, I'm kinda sure his face was visible in Secret Wars (though it had been cured, or summfin'). Marvelrulez 20:57, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, his face has been shown unscarred (such as in Secret Wars, yes). These events were later undone by the Beyonder, including his unscarring. Doom's pride will never allow his scarred face to be shown, and as someone else said above, it has been a long-standing tradition to not reveal it. The closest that I have ever come to see his scarred face being revealed was in Books of Doom, but it was revealed in that same page that it was a doombot. -- Trakx 11:45, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Aww, I wanted to see his freaky face. Heh, like when Peter Griffin went to see the Phantom of the Opera.

Sideshow toys, makers of collectable figures, had made a bust of DD, with both removeable mask(!) and nose(!!) check it out here [[1]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.164.202.130 (talk) 18:21, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Minute Waltz?

The Punisher met Doctor Doom in one of his really dorktastic issues of his own series. If that made sense.

Also, the Punisher killed Doom on panel in 'Punisher Kills The Marvel Universe'.

And the current bit about Doom killing the orchestra that failed to play the Minute Waltz in a minute...even it's ever found what issue this happened in, should this really be part of the article anyway? The 'real' Doom has an appreciation for the arts and would know exactly how long the Minute Waltz would last.

Lots42 23:26, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. While an interesting bit of trivia, to the casual reader looking up information on Doom it would paint the wrong picture. I'm not sure of what comic or issue this happened in, but it isn't a defining moment, but merely a passing whim of an idea the writer had that he thought would show Doom to not only be classy, but dangerous. -- Trakx 11:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Immunity?

While it's acknowledged that Doom has diplomatic immunity when he travels abroad, is it really something that should be listed under 'abilties'? Should something like that really be considered a 'super power'? Lord Shaz 20:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Numbers of issues

I have added all the refferences needed to the information I gave (specially sections "Doom´s honor", "Doom´s love interests", "Doom´s villains that he has defeated"). I supposse that now the problem of refferences will finish. If it stills, please, tell me what´s the number that I need to add.

[edit] Is there a reason that his role in the heroes reborn universe was not used?

If I remeber correctly Doom played a major role in the heroes reborn universe. He was the reason that the heroes could beat Galactacus because he would see their mistakes in each of their attempts to stop him, then he used those seperate ideas to finally stop The big G. The story is found in issue 12 of each series in the heroes reborn universe. Thank you so much for listening. GL135

Why not enter the relevant information yourself? I have not actually read any Doom HR universe appereances. Lots42 07:40, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mephisto?

???

Mephisto did not cause the accident that scarred Doom and made him hate Reed. Doom's own arrogance did this.

Lots42 07:42, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

This had been the long standing story, yes, but it was further explained in Books of Doom by Ed Brubaker. In short, the famous experiment was not a complete disaster: Doom did astral travel to Mephisto's Realm. While there, Mephisto defeated Doom from saving his mother, but told him that once a year he may try again. In Mephisto's Realm, Doom was then scarred by Mephisto, and in the real world Doom's machine exploded. In the end, and not to contradict myself, but it may have been one or the other or both that caused the scar. - Trakx 11:30, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar

This is a pain to read. I'm a little drowsy I'll grant, but some of these sentences in the article make my head hurt.

Agreed. Example- "But he had his revenge to Magneto's cruel acts, because when the rebellion against him started, Doom helped him aimless, and quickly escaped, disappearing (perhaps to rescue his mother), leaving King Magnus alone to face a shamefully defeat by the Scarlett Witch's hands." I'm going to attempt some cleanup. --Citizen Sykes 21:22, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ways to shorten the article

This article is too long and needs to be shortened. I propose creating an article to move his 'Other versions' section to, like Captain America, Spider-Man, Wolverine, etc. have. Anyone disagree? Anyone with other ideas on how to shorten the article? -Freak104 17:07, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I created the Alternate versions of Doctor Doom page to help shorten this article, but it's still too long. Freak104 03:15, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

The whole section on Rise of the Silver Surfer is out of line. It should mention his appearance in the film and brief synopsis, not a play by play of every scene he's in in the movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.162.187.19 (talk) 21:15, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rise of the Silver Surfer

One paragraph says "He knocks out all the guards guarding the board and kills General Hager". But then the next paragraph says ".... ...he attaches himself to the surfboard and goes on a rampage throughout the Earth,disintegrating and killing General Hager in the process. ".

This is confusing, as it seems like General Hager died twice. Can someone who saw the movie clear this up? 68.199.241.212 02:38, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Doom1994.png

Image:Doom1994.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:24, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Doom2006.png

Image:Doom2006.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

BetacommandBot 23:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Where have the references gone?

The article cites a few references (like Wizard magazine putting him as number 4 villian etc.) but under the references entry there is only a link to an extremly crappy made fansite? Aetherfukz 18:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Doctor-doom-mf.jpg

Image:Doctor-doom-mf.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 04:58, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Doom's honor

Shouldn't that section have some references as opposed to "in [story arc/comic/etc.], Doom did.." ? I'd add them myself, but I haven't kept up with Marvel comics in a long, long time. Th 2005 (talk) 12:48, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

I've deleted the section. It was original research, personal intepretation of the comics rather than analysis by a reliable source. Paul 730 15:30, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

David Fuchs and I dumped this personality/honour stuff ages ago, because we know different writers interpret Doom differently over the years. As the publication history shows, Mark Waid certainly didn't think of Doom as honourable. Alientraveller (talk) 22:39, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

Is it reasonably well written?

A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

A. References to sources:

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?

A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?

Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?

No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Overall:

Pass or Fail:

I usually don't like to fail an article right off the bat. However, after reading this article, it obviously has some problems with keeping out-of-universe perspective. The lead, "Fictional character biography" and "Powers and abilities" sections all need rewriting to keep it "out of universe". WP:WAF states clearly: "The principal frame of reference is always the real world, in which both the work of fiction and its publication are embedded: write from a real-world perspective." (emphasis not mine)

There are major edits that need to be done, and I think it would be best to rewrite the aforementioned sections to avoid referring to the character as if he was real. Then come back and re-nominate.

I know there are several comic book characters that are FAs (Batman and Captain Marvel are two, I believe), and it's always a good idea to look at other articles that have already succeeded.

If you have any questions, please leave a note on my talk page. I wish you the best of luck in improving this article, and I hope I see this article nominated again sometime (after much improvement). Noble Story (talk) 13:43, 30 March 2008 (UTC)