Talk:Dnepr-Carpathian Strategic Offensive Operation

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion not met Associated task forces (nations and regions): German military history task force Polish military history task force Romanian military history task force Russian and Soviet military history task force Associated task forces (periods and conflicts): World War II task force

[edit] Created Article

I've created this article today. Tomorrow I will add some references, fix typos, broken links, etc. and overall improve it, so please don't delete it. You are welcome to contribute if you can before I have a chance to come back and finish it. Borg Sphere (talk) 16:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming proposal

Great job on starting this article Joe, however I don't think you were aware of the larger project of documenting all operations on the Eastern front.

This particular operation, rather then being a "Battle of Western Ukraine" Which is what the German Army called it, was actually either the strategic or one of the operational parts the following

• Dnepr-Carpathian Strategic Offensive Operation (24 December 1943 - 17 April 1944) 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th Ukrainian Fronts, 2nd Byelorussian Fronts

Zhitomir-Berdichev Offensive Operation 24 December 1943 - 14 January 1944

Kirograd Offensive Operation 5 January 1944 - 16 January 1944

Korsun-Shevchenkovsky Offensive Operation 24 January 1944 - 17 February 1944

Rovno-Lutsk Offensive Operation 1 Stage 27 January 1944 - 11 February 1944

Nikopol'-Krivoi Rog Offensive Operation 2 Stage 30 January 1944 - 29 February 1944

Proskurov-Chernovtsy Offensive Operation 4 March 1944 - 17 April 1944

Uman-Botosani Offensive Operation 5 March 1944 - 17 April 1944

Bereznegovatoye-Snigirevka Offensive Operation 6 March 1944 - 18 March 1944

Polesskoe Offensive Operation 15 March 1944 - 5 April 1944

Odessa Offensive Operation 26 March 1944 - 14 April 1944

I'd like to propose renaming the article you created to Dnepr-Carpathian Strategic Offensive Operation, and I can help you in expanding it further if you like. The name will consistently fit into the other operations listed in Strategic operations of the Red Army in World War II--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 04:03, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me Mrg, I know we have discussed this approach at length, but what evidence etc makes you consider here that the Soviet POV should supercede the German POV. We're supposed to reach for a neutral POV, yet here you are advocating simply substituting one for the other. What evidence makes you think the Soviet POV should have precedence here? Buckshot06 (talk) 04:47, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, there was never a "Battle of West Ukraine" in German military history, that's why. Besides that, the operation was a Soviet one, with German and Romanian forces yet again on the defensive. As part of this response to the Soviet operation there were many examples of such "battles" which is why I try and avoid them to those instances where they are actually appropriate, such as the battles for the festungs, or breakout battles, or battles for cities and crossings (like Bug), i.e. some event that can be isolated below the level of an Army Group! There is no prerogative to reaching a neutral POV on the name of the article, if the article is not named for any actual know event, but a general geographic region.

Also, consider the source. The full citation will read The Great Crusade: A New Complete History of the Second World War, Revised Edition (Paperback?). This book is a very general book (a reprint?), and if you look up the author, you will see that he only does two types of books, the Pacific (in which he specialises) and the general "WWII" titles. Even his The Second World War In The East is about the Far East. It is not a source to be relied on for a strategic operation on the Eastern Front, and despite the effort by the author, two Soviet Fronts were missed from the description, which I can only fault the source for, because I can see the author did read the book quite closely. So that's another why.--mrg3105 (comms) ♠♥♦♣ 06:56, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

The reason I named it as I did was because in the World War II task force of the Military History Wikiproject, the section of requested articles had an article with this name under it. While I was reading the book I noticed that it covered the offensive in detail, which led me to create this article using the information which I found in the book. The book seamed to be accurate and covered the Eastern Front extensively, and all the information in it which I already knew from other readings was accurate, so I assumed that this section of it would be accurate as well. If it wasn't, my apologies, you can add any information that is missing or incorrect and cite other sources. To return to the original subject of the naming of the article, if you would like to move it feel free. It does seem to make more sense that way, however other articles are often named in the way that this is, for example Battle of the Crimea (1944). This way fits in with most other articles, but I do agree that the other name makes more sense. Borg Sphere (talk) 14:15, 6 April 2008 (UTC)