Talk:Dmitry Bortniansky

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[edit] Rewrite

I rewrote almost every sentence, mostly to get rid of somewhat odd language. His operas were added, and I will still add a list of his better known choral and instrumental works.

Also, as an informative article, more should be added about his use of classicism as well as folk tunes throughout his compositions.--tufkaa 01:00, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Attempts to push nationalist agenda

Someone constantly changes the name of the composer to it's Ukrainian way. I remind you that Dmitry Bortiansky lived mostly in Saint Petersburg, where he also died, and spoke mostly Russian. Not only that, but when his music was released in the Germanic-language countries, his name was spelled in the Russian way, Dmitri. I dont see any logic to the attempts to change his name into the Ukrainian formulation but pushing nationalistic agenda. I was offered a "concensus", but i dint seem to see what concensus could come here. Shpakovich (talk) 12:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Stravinsky, Schoenberg, Bartók, Rachmaninoff, to name a few, lived, worked, and died in the United States, and no one in their right mind would call them "American" composers. Bortniansky was a Ukrainian composer who lived, worked, and died in Russia, and probably he's the most famous Ukrainian composer who ever lived. Calling him a "Russian" composer is misleading. But I'll skip the lecture and just cite a source: the big article on Bortniansky in the New Grove calls him "Ukrainian composer, singer and music director, active in Russia", and they cite his name as Bortnyans'ky, Dmytro Stepanovych, with the Russian version in parentheses. We really should just do what other reliable sources give. Thanks, Antandrus (talk) 13:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

You try to involve different cases. Those who you mentioned became well known composers before they moved to the US, and when they moved they moved with the names they became famous with. Dont forget they spoke Russian and called themselves Russians/

Bortiansky became famous IN Russia, he wrote in all languages BUT Ukrainian, and in the western media he is called Dmitry ([1],[2], [3]). He lived in Russia, died there, spoke Russian, and he never heard of such state as Ukraine, simple because there wasn't one. So he is a Russian composer of Ukrainian ethnicity. Just like Anton Rubinstein is a Russian composer of Jewish ethnicity, or Paul Simon is an American composer of Jewish ethnicity (according to your logic he should be changed to Shaul Shimmon). Taras Shevchenko is a Ukrainian poet and not a Russian poet of Ukrainian ethnicity, even thought he lived and died in Sankt Peterburg, because he wrote Ukrainian. Dmitri B. Spoke Russian. He never had one Ukrainian song, while alot of Russian. In the rest of Europe he was known as a composer from Sankt Peterburg. There he became famous. Shpakovich (talk) 14:19, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

My "logic" is to use reliable sources, and in so doing, follow Wikipedia policy. Dmitry Bortnyansky was a Ukrainian composer active in Russia. His career is similar to hundreds of composers in European history who received their childhood training in their homelands, and then emigrated elsewhere, where they made their fame -- no one would call Lassus an "Italian" composer, or Morales an "Italian" one, and neither should you call Bortnyansky a "Russian" composer. Shpakovich, this isn't that big a deal. We need a clarification that he was "Ukrainian" -- for he was -- but active in Russia. Grove gets it right. Thanks, Antandrus (talk) 14:28, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Hhh i used reliable sources to. Anyone can call others sources: "Unreliable, NaNaBanana, i cant hear you". He was a Russian composer of Ukrainian ethnicity, i on purpouse havent deleted the article from WikiProject Ukraine and added in the article the line he was of Ukrainian ethnicity. If he would write music in Ukraine and call himself Dmytro, he would. BUT, he caled himself Dmitry, and he didnt have anything Ukrainian in his music. In the whole world he was Dmitry. Again, you talk about the model of Taras Shevchenco and i talked about it. If you want we could write: a Ukrainian-Russian composer, but thats the same thing. I didnt write on him as of Russian ethnicity, but Russia-n, which means someone from Russia. Shpakovich (talk) 14:36, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. I dont see the difference but if you like it more, thats fine. Shpakovich (talk) 14:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Old Style/New Style date indication

I suggest the use of O.S./N.S. indication to clarify date figures concerning pre-revolutionary Russia. (At least, the ones with month and day.) In the 18th and 19th centuries Russia was one of the few countries to stick to the Julian calendar - using different sources one frequently is labored to double-check which patricular calendar style was implied by the authors. Emi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.12.180.241 (talk) 13:58, 5 April 2008 (UTC)