Template talk:DL character

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Template:DL character page.

Contents

[edit] Family members

I decided not to add family members, mostly because they are already mentioned in the article, may have spoilers, and some characters would get quite a lot of entries (Palin would be linked from Caramon to Sturm, which is not really useful for the casual reader). -- ReyBrujo 18:23, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Add more sections

Wouldn't adding class (warrior, mage, etc), and making both class and gender required fields make the infobox more useful? ddcc 03:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I was heavily tempted into adding the character classes from Dungeons & Dragons, but decided to keep the template simple to finish it quickly so that I could add it into the Goldmoon article, and from there, expand it. Also, I thought having a title, profession and class would be a little too much. However, it can be easily added. As for making class and gender required, it seems fair enough. Note that classes must be picked from a Dragonlance sourcebook, which may leave several characters at Unknown. -- ReyBrujo 04:13, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

What about add "deity" as a race? Llull 05:33, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that is pretty good. What would people use in Mina's case? I am worried that the infobox would give spoilers (I have read somewhere that the infobox is not considered spoiler, that is, if nobody knows but it is true, it should go in the infobox). But it makes me feel sad for those who haven't yet read the books. -- ReyBrujo 12:52, 2 June 2006 (UTC) -- ReyBrujo 12:52, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Would it be possible to put up a spoiler notice? I'm not familiar with editing the template, so can you make the change to make gender required? I suppose we could leave class as optional, because not many people have read the sourcebook. ddcc 01:01, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Multiple Colors

The color for priest is needed for people like Mina, or Rhys. However, in the case of goldmoon, she is both a barbarian and a priestess. Which one (or both) should be selected on pages? ddcc 21:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

What about having a field for RACE (human, dwarf, elf, gnome, etc), TYPE (qualinesti, neidar, barbarian, solamnian, etc) and PROFESSION (priest, warrior, etc). I don't like the "Type" name, but with this separation we should be able to link without problem. If we have a mixture (like Ariakas for Warrior/Mage), we let as color the main type (in his case, warrior). -- ReyBrujo 02:00, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok. Can you make the necessary changes and make gender required?ddcc 21:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Sure. Give me some minutes to copy some information I got from the Dragonlance Campaign Setting. -- ReyBrujo 02:56, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I created two tables for classes, one about common classes and another for the prestige ones. I will be changing the color parameter into class. Now I will expand the race. -- ReyBrujo 04:16, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
I have updated the race. Now it is possible to choose Elf or Qualinesti elf to specify a more specific race. -- ReyBrujo 05:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Can you make gender required?ddcc 21:35, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
Done. -- ReyBrujo 21:40, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
It still shows optional on the table. And what class would kender be? (Tasslehoff) ddcc 03:05, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
How so? Doesn't it say "Unknown" when there is no gender? If not, you need to refresh with CTRL+F5. Or you are thinking about making the template throw an error when the gender is not inserted. As for kenders, Tasslehoff is listed as rogue in the War of the Lance sourcebook. -- ReyBrujo 03:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Profession

I've just added an infobox for Dalamar, and the profession area didn't show up. What's up with that? DoomsDay349 02:08, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Oh, the profession was replaced with class, but I forgot to remove it from the table. I just removed that field from Dalamar too. Anything you may have put in profession should go in title and class. -- ReyBrujo 02:51, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Class for Dragons

If doing an infobox for a dragon, what do you list for their class? Specifically, I'm doing one for Khisanth, but I can't think of anything for class. Perhaps new classes could be made for dragons, like a listing for their color, i.e., red dragon, blue dragon, etc. DoomsDay349 02:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe we should add three, one for evil dragon, one for good, and one for neutral. ddcc 02:54, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Hmm... the War of the Lance sourcebook doesn't have Khisanth, but has Cyan Bloodbane, and they don't specify a class, only that he is an ancient dragon. I believe it is possible to just discard class when talking about a dragon, and using the title field to specify its size and color, or at least only color, like "title: Red Dragon", or "title: Ancient red dragon". Or create a new template, but I don't think it is that necessary. -- ReyBrujo 02:59, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
That is a smart point. We are talking about D&D characters, and forgot the alignment. I will add it now. As for color and size, maybe adding a parameter that can only be used if you choose dragon as race... -- ReyBrujo 03:00, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Err..your parameter thing you can take care of. I'm not too good with that. Anyway, I've added good and evil dragon classes, you can take care of neutral cause I can't think of an example. DoomsDay349 03:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
OK, I probably messed up at some point here, but the dragon classes aren't showing up on the tables. Is it my fault? Did I mess up? DoomsDay349 03:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
Never mind that, I did mess up, fixing now. DoomsDay349 03:19, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I am wondering now, why can't that be a part of the race? Much like you can choose "elf" or "Silvanesti elf" as race, you should be able to choose "dragon" or "white dragon" as race. What you think? -- ReyBrujo 03:43, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I would agree, and one more thing, the color for good dragonsm like silvara, is really light, so that it's very hard to see the actual text because it's white. ddcc 04:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No class for dragon

I think you still need to make one class for dragon, or else what should we put in the class argument for dragons? ddcc 22:16, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... the problem is that dragons are classified in size + sex + age + race. According to the sourcebooks, they don't belong to a class, they are just dragons, just as deities don't belong to a class, but instead they are just deities. All available classes in D&D are shown at Character class (Dungeons & Dragons). There are links for "special" classes in the List of prestige classes. We can't just "create" a class, as that would be original research.
I believe the best option is to use gender, age and race parameter, and a new size parameter. In example, in the War of the Lance sourcebook Cyan Bloodbane appears as a Male ancient green dragon. Thus, gender would be male, age would be ancient (age is not determined by years but by approximation, going from wyrmling—until 5 years old—to great wyrm—over 1,200 years—), and green dragon as race. He is also described as a gargantuan dragon, that is the term for size (which goes from tiny to gargantuan, with colossal being outside the scale). Other dragons shown in the sourcebook include Pyros "Ember" (male old red dragon, gargantuan), Khirsah "Fireflash" (male young adult bronze dragon, large), Pyrite (male great wyrm gold dragon, colossal), D'argent "Silvara" (female very old silver dragon, huge), Terrisleetix "Sleet" (female old white dragon, huge) and Whisper (male wyrm shadow dragon, gargantuan). What do you think about this? -- ReyBrujo 23:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I think this could work, the only thing is... what determines the background color for the dragon's infobox? DoomsDay349 01:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
How about the size? Since the only characters that would be using that special property are dragons, whenever the size is being specified, a different color is used. -- ReyBrujo 01:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Do you know how to set that up? I'll leave it to you to figure out. DoomsDay349 04:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Sure, no problem. Needs a couple of tricks. I will have it done later, as I am going to sleep now. I will add a dragon infobox example once I am done with it. -- ReyBrujo 04:28, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Why not just put a class as dragon? ddcc 04:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
As I explained before, there is no dragon class in the sourcebooks (that I know of, of course). The class property is based in the classes defined at the Character class (Dungeons & Dragons) section, which are all the ones that appear in the AD&D sourcebooks, and which Dragonlance uses to classify their characters (like describing Riverwind as barbarian). Unless the next Dragonlance sourcebook creates a dragon class, we can't include it for the sake of making the infobox look better. It is just like going to that article and adding the dragon class. The change would be reverted because the sourcebooks do not specify a dragon class. Dragons, as deities, don't have classes. They are just dragons and deities. -- ReyBrujo 04:45, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tika Infobox

Should she be listed as commoner of expert? I'm only asking because the 'expert' category says "famous commoners". I'll put her down for commoner, change if neccessary. DoomsDay349 21:12, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, should homeland be listed as Solace or Abanasia? I'll go with Abanasia for now. DoomsDay349 21:13, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
In the sourcebook she appears as Warrior/Rogue, but I don't remember which class prevails. According to Tracy Hickman in the Annotated Chronicles, she was supposed to represent the female warrior in a standard D&D group. -- ReyBrujo 21:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Really? Hmm...she seems more like a Warrior to me. I'll relist. DoomsDay349 21:34, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Elf Race Category

I was just thinking, should a new race under elf be made for Dark Elf? They are exiles from their home country, after all, and no longer associate with those nations. DoomsDay349 21:16, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

They are nevertheless born in an elven nation. The title field can be used to specify that he is a dark elf. -- ReyBrujo 21:19, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Then what would the children of dark elves be, case in point Silvanoshei. Surely they would hardly be accepted into elven society, and thus branded dark elves without ever having been born in an elven nation. DoomsDay349 21:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
I haven't seen Silvanoshei's character sheet yet, and I don't want to speculate, so for now keep him as elf and as title, son of Porthios and Alhana. -- ReyBrujo 01:46, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kitiara's Class

Is Kitiara listed as a fighter or warrior? DoomsDay349 21:51, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Female human fighter. There are two profiles for her, but both state her as fighter, while the second also gives her the prestigue class Dragon Rider and Dragon Highlord. -- ReyBrujo 01:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Background Color for Deities

Just as the dragon race has been divided, I suggest that the deity race be divided into gods of good, neutrality, and evil. This could then become the way for god infoboxes to recieve a background color. I will now divide the race section, and someone who understands how can set the background color. DoomsDay349 22:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Just as ReyBrujo said, the dragonlance sourcebook doesn't specify diety of good, evil, etc. And, what would Mina be? ddcc 01:13, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I have implemented the alignment, but forgot to add the notes in the usage table, I will do it now. As for colors, the colors are meant to give the user a visual understanding. In example, when the box is white, it is a deity. If we create one color for good deities, another for neutral and another for evil deities, we would need to add another for good dragons and another for evil dragons, another for evil draconians and another for good draconians, etc. Keep it simple, let the user associate deities with a color and not with three. Remember, the casual user does not care to know the infobox color, just that the character is a deity, in example. -- ReyBrujo 01:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
So then, should the seperated god races be deleted? I wouldn't have done that split if the alignments had been there, so I apologize. Also, is Takhisis counted as chaotic evil? I'll put her down for plain evil now, adjust later. DoomsDay349 02:52, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I see no real harm for now, maybe later we will see if it should be changed. I could not find Takhisis (in War of the Lance the deities are not explained, in Dragonlance Campaign Setting Takhisis is already dead). From Draconomicon, Tiamat is Lawful evil. Since Takhisis is supposedly the representation of Tiamat in Krynn, she may be given such alignment. However, I suggest keeping her as evil for now. -- ReyBrujo 03:06, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Actually, lawful evil does seem more likely than chaotic, as Takhisis wants to rule Krynn, not destroy it. Destroying would be a chaotic trait; ruling is a lawful trait. However, I agree on keeping it plain evil. DoomsDay349 03:29, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Problem With Takhisis

I can't get her name to show up, and I've determined the cause is the lack of a listing in the class category. However, this does not make sense, because in a similiar article, Khisanth, there is no class listing and yet the name appears. Can someone figure out what the problem is? DoomsDay349 03:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

It is there, but in white. I will see how to fix that. -- ReyBrujo 03:09, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Fixed, there was an extra substitution there. -- ReyBrujo 03:18, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Paladine Alignment

Paladine is lawful good, right? DoomsDay349 03:30, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I am guessing so, but he is not listed in the DCS. -- ReyBrujo 03:33, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Still, the other good alignments seem unlikely for him, considering his patronage with the Knights, who are very good examples of "Crusaders" the description of Lawful Good characters. DoomsDay349 03:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Kitiara Alignment

For her infobox, I would guess neutral evil (Malefactor), one who is out for herself and no one else. I will list her as such, if anyone can confirm or dispute this, please do. DoomsDay349 16:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Also on the subject of Kit, should her being referred to as "The Dark Lady" and "The Blue Lady" be listed as aliases or titles? I'm listing them as aliases for now. DoomsDay349 16:48, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Knight of Takhisis Example

The example name is listed as "Morhan Targonne", though I am fairly confident it is in fact Morham. I will change this now. DoomsDay349 16:55, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prestige Classes

The list of prestige classes listed here is flawed and lacking. I'll start with what is listed currently. Knight of Solamnia is correctly divided into the three orders, Knights of the Crown, Sword, and Rose. Same with Knight of Takhisis, which is correctly divided into the Knights of the Lily, Skull, and Thorn. Legion of Steel should be changed to Steel Legionnaire, and Wizard should be changed to Wizard of High Sorcery. In addition there are several missing prestige classes, including Dragon Rider(Highlords and such), Inquisitor (I cannot, admittedly, think of an example for this one, I do know it is a class, however), Legendary Tactician (Ariakas, perhaps), and Righteous Zealot(possibly Kith-Kanan, though I am not very solid on that stand). I will fix the existing ones, however, I will wait for the ensuing discussion here to post the new ones. DoomsDay349 22:49, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

No complains from me. I believe Hederick is an Inquisitor. -- ReyBrujo 20:10, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Done. DoomsDay349 21:47, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mina Class

What is her class? I think she should not be listed as a KoT, cause she didn't take the Blood Oath (I think)... I'm thinking cleric, personally. I'm going to leave her class empty for now, and I'll fill it in later. DoomsDay349 01:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Player" option?

Perhaps we should add a "Player" section for those characters who had a human player in the original D&D campaign? For instance, Raistlin Majere was "played" by Terry Phillips, but not created by him. Finnicks 22:08, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

But it would only be applicable to the original 8 characters. Later characters, such as Palin, Dalamar, or Mina, would have no need of such a field. I don't think it would be useful. DoomsDay349 22:46, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Addition of MWP/SP Prcs

Sorry for the abbreviations, but I wanted to keep the title short. Do you think we should add in the Margaret Weis Productions/Sovereign Press Prestige Classes? They're not "official" per se, but still, they are there. Though I'm unsure that many novel characters would fit the category. DoomsDay349 03:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Debut field - what about game appearances?

The debut field says to add the first appearance in a short story or novel. However several characters first appeared in neither but as PC's or NPC's in game module. This would include all the Heroes of the Lance except Caramon and Raistlin, as well as serveral other characters form the first series (need to research a bit but I would expect Elistan, Laurana amoungst others). I am not as familiar with latter Dragonlance material to know if it would effect latter characters. I would suggest this needs to be resolved in one of two ways:

  1. Make description of this field just first appearance in any form, this would mean description would need to be changed to include possibility of game accessory.
  2. Change the appearsance of template to specify this is first prose appearance. Possibly add a first game appearce as a seperate optional tag.
- Waza 03:22, 13 April 2007 (UTC)