Talk:Disc jockey

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Disc jockey article.
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Contents

[edit] Radio DJ Section

This is in awful shape-- starting with the unsubstantiated claim that "It is actually quite uncommon for a DJ on a radio station to personally enjoy the music they are playing" and ending with the declaration that "Rarely, a DJ is encouraged to inject their own personality into their show." I think there's an industry-hater out there.

[edit] Tim Westwood

I think the DJ legend Tim Westwood needs a lil mention here. He has done a lot for DJing ever since Jimmy Saville invented it. Infact Tim Westwood is really a hiphop version of Jimmy Saville.

Tim Westwood has completely revolutionised what we perceive DJing to be. Tim Westwood pioneered the use of sound effects: computerised and human (once he forgot his box of gadgets and had to make bomb sounds with his mouth).

He also pioneered the technique of shouting out slogans over the mic while DJing... "Bow down and kiss the ring", and "Im God's favourite DJ."

[edit] First drafts

I cringe to think of how much time I could have spent on this rough article. I still marvel at how much time and how seriously one can dissect and tinker with the workings of pop culture phenomena. Regardless, for those that ARE wondering:

1) I didn't go into detailed discussions of radio DJs vs. club DJs vs. wedding DJs..... here because (as I said) for as different as they can all be, they really are all doing pretty much the same thing (and usually all with the same tools). Besides, this description (argument?) can be found on any number of "DJ FAQs" all over the web.

2) re: the "DJ as artist" section: Any number of arguments can be made w/r/t/ to what constitutes a DJ, an artist, an "art DJ," an artistic DJ, etc. (Getting my drift?) A DJ can mix artistically and/or innovatively and still wind up with an end result that is simply two songs mixed together. Then again, I don't necessarily consider a "turntablist" to be an artist either...

I've tried to clarify the definition of "DJ" while explaining how broad that definition can be. I wanted to get rid of all the parethesis and e.g.'s found in the

earlier version as they clouded an already cloudy issue. I'll be developing the technique and equipment sections, including searching for appropriate, existing entires and changing my wording accordingly. I'll probably tackle the DJ as Artist section after that, which could use some work. A history of DJing section may follow. PAW

I'm new, I don't feel quite comfortable enough yet to make any changes, so I'll just suggest some. I think there should be some mention of David Mancuso, he is often credited as the father of the modern DJ. Also, the link for phrasing specifically discusses phasing and not phrasing. Speaking as a DJ I think phrasing is a fairly important concept. Starx

[edit] Proposed Outline

The current intro is great. What needs work is the descriptions of various DJs. I propose the three category break down I just added to the article and found below.

  1. Intro
  2. Types of DJs: in order of increasing musical involvement and intervention
    1. Radio DJs
    2. Mobile/Party DJs
    3. Club DJs
    4. Hip hop and experimental DJs/Turntablists
  3. Techniques
  4. List of DJS

Hyacinth 19:59, 8 Jun 2004 (UTC), User:Hyacinth/Outlines

Club and party DJ's should be seperate. There is most definitly a cultural and artistic aspect present in club DJ's that doesn't exist in party DJ's. I would split the DJ's into radio/club/mobile/turtablist --Starx 02:40, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

So may we lay different groups on a pole with the most musical involvement and intervention at one end and the least at the other, as above? Hyacinth 04:35, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I like that, I think that's a good system. I think the "order of musical involvement" thing should be kept low key though, otherwise well have all sorts of objections from people saying this DJ is better then that DJ blah blah. But yea, I think thats a good classification/ranking. --Starx 03:15, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I find the structure to self-explain that different types of DJs serve different purposes (a hip hop DJ doesn't need or want the skills of a radio DJ), but we should also spell out, "Type of DJs differ by location and more so by purpose." So, I think you bring up a good point that it is questionable who "affects" the music more, a radio DJ who may comment directly on the music before and after its play while also providing a general background for the music, or a hip hop DJ who alters and superimposes different musics creating a new context for them but without directly commenting on them. I have not heard or read of a valid way to make a distinction between those types of "involvement" and so I agree it should be dropped. Hyacinth 03:28, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I respectfully don't agree, things change and as DJ who has done radio, club, weddings, bedroom, house-party and event DJing as well as in parades and in the woods i think the catagories should be kept as simple overviews as many DJs don't fit neatly into those boxes and the categories themselves change with technology and society.


Where does Collage fit in? Hyacinth 03:28, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)


Is there a better place for "Techniques"? If we were to describe the technique of skateboarders, it would be at Skateboarding. Deejaying is not currently an article, and there may be a better of which I am unaware for what a DJ does. Hyacinth 03:28, 10 Jun 2004 (UTC)

The main problem comes from the fact that the same word is used for many different situations. A dj plays records, fine :) going any further becomes very tricky. For instance, turntablism brings a new dimension to the world of djing. A turntablist uses records but you could hardly say that he(she) plays them, more to the point he(she) plays with them. Most turntablists use records that have been cut for the specific purpose of "scratching" them. Forget about playing pre-recorded music. The recorded sounds could be anything from various noises, vocal samples, single instruments etc...that are then use as a "sonic palette". The issue of music/art versus technique is not new. My perspective is that an instrument is only the tool.When talking about the great Jazz players for instance, would their technical expertise be the best perspective? I doubt it. I take it that their contribution to music as a whole would be a better place to start from. The same goes for djs, I believe.

"Disco Dave" the wedding Dj has very little to do with reknowned club djs, the same way that your local handyman has very little to do with Basquiat, although they both use a few brushes and some paint. A radio dj can be compared to a literary critic, giving opportunities to people to discover music they may not know about. A club dj mixes together tracks that may be of very little interest if played on their own, he then creates an experience by finding the right blend, like a cook creates a meal from the raw elements. And then it all gets mixed up when a well known club dj gets a regular spot on the radio, or the other way around. Not being the encyclopedic type, I'll have to stop here and hope that this small contribution can be of some help.

[edit] DJs as artists

In your article, you actually refer to the increasing involment of djs in the music production process. In the past, this role was reserved to "classically" trained musicians who could write scores, arrangements etc...

The definition of a dj as an artist should limit to the use of technical skills to produce a new form of music, and forget about toasting, rapping or even the application of effects. Turntablism goes way beyond playing a couple of records at the same time, it's a new way to produce sounds. The turntable thus becomes an instrument. The notion of "art" then should refer to what has been produced with that instrument.

The turntablism movememt is very recent and often misunderstood. Many people won't accept the musicianship involved reducing it to a simple exhibition of technicality.

Please read the thoroughly researched book by Bill Brewster & Frank Broughton "Last night a Dj saved my life: The History of the Disc Jockey. — 12:02, 12 March 2005 80.14.117.119

Hi there, and welcome to Wikipedia. You start out with "In your article," but that's the thing, it's actually your article. If you, the reader, feel it needs work (and this article certainly does need a lot of it), then edit it. That's how it got to be in the state that it's in today; someone read it, thought it needed some improvement, and they clicked on the edit link and made changes to it. You can do it, too, although preferably after logging in so that you aren't just credited as an anonymous IP address. Also, sign your discussion page posts with 4 tildes, like ~~~~. They'll be converted to a datestamp and userpage link for you automatically. That said, I think you have some good perspectives and I'd welcome your contributions to the "DJ as artist" section of the article. Maybe invest in a spellchecker though ;) — mjb 1 July 2005 09:08 (UTC)

[edit] Notability of DJs

Please see the article WP:MUSIC regarding standards for notability of musicians, including DJs. I think there is room for improvement in the standards for notability; I mean, Alan Freed didn't go on international tours or put out multiple albums of his own, but I don't think his notability is in question, either.

I also don't think we need to list any but the most historically important club and hip-hop DJs in the disc jockey article. Any other DJs with articles of their own should be listed via the existing DJ categories. I have gone ahead and trimmed the lists, added some summaries/justifications for each DJ I was familiar with, and I added category links to each section as well as putting them into a new "See also" section. This will hopefully cut down on the vanity links and make the article more encyclopedic.

There is still some work to do: the hip-hop DJs need descriptions/justifications, and Category:DJs needs to have many of its articles recategorized. — mjb 1 July 2005 10:45 (UTC)


this section was recently added: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_jockey#Notable_Bollywood.2FBhangra.2FBombass_DJs while I can see it's potential value, I think it should be moved to another area of the article but I can't see a good place - thoughts anyone? Whitehatnetizen 04:45, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I edited the intro to a shorter, more concise single paragraph, also adding a definition to the word "deejaying". Perhaps a "deejaying" article should also be created, like mentioned aboev, going into detail all of the deejaying techniques?

It seemed appropriate to group all of the different types of deejays into the heading "types of deejays". Do you all think the subcategories are complete and accurate? Of course, the hip hop section still needs work. kevin 23 Aug 2005 12:46 (UTC)

[edit] The term "selector"

From how i've understood it, back in the day in Jamaica the person playing the records was the "selector". The term "DJ" later referred to either radio DJs, or selectors who would fiddle with the records instead of just playing them. Take a peek at Music of Jamaica#DJs. I haven't been following the DJ-culture as such that much, so i wish someone else would confirm this and add it to the page. Other pages could perhaps mention this too, i'm thinking about Jamaican sound system among others. --mace 20:39, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

This information was in the opening paragraph until very recently, when it was reworded and moved to the new timeline section, under late 1950s, by Kevinsnow. Perhaps some mention of DJ vs. selector should be restored to the introduction. Be bold in updating pages. :) — mjb 00:33, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
I personally don't believe that "DJ vs selector" belongs in the introduction. I certainly recognize the significance of the Jamaican sound systems, but that term only applied to DJs in that specific instance. If someone wants to find out what the word "selector" means, they will go to the article with that title, where it explains that it is a Jamaican DJ, etc etc. The previous intro paragraph also went into detail about other meanings of the word "deejay". This page is about disc jockeys, isn't the purpose of a disambiguation page to distinguish different meanings of the same word? kevinsnow 11:58, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't think it's so much that people would be looking to learn about "selectors" so much as it is that they'd be here to learn about DJs, and would be surprised to find out that "DJ" has a lesser-known, region/genre-specific meaning, in addition to its more widely known meanings. If the opening paragraph says that "A DJ is blahblahblah" (a selector) and fails to mention that in some parts of the world or in certain music scenes a DJ is the opposite of that (a rapper), then it's kind of misleading. I think it's important enough of a distinction to be mentioned in the intro. And no, a disambiguation page is to distinguish between different Wikipedia articles about topics with the same name. Unless there is an intention to have a separate article about each kind of DJ, there shouldn't be a disambiguation page; we have to write about them both here. — mjb 17:37, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
Very good points, I didn't consider that fully. I think the information definitely belongs in this article, either as a second paragraph in the intro section (not in the first paragraph), or as a section specifically devoted to other meanings, etc. kevinsnow 14:53, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Timeline

When I revamped the timeline section yesterday I divided the periods up according to Rob Wegner's article on DJ history, with 3 waves. I changed them later, b/c those are geared towards Club DJs specifically. I just took away all of the subheadings for the timeline b/c I'm not sure of the best way to loosely categorize it. I think it is a good idea to have them, at least for the sake of breaking it up into managable, readable chunks. Does anyone have any suggestions? kevinsnow 14:19, 9 September 2005 (UTC)


TIMELINE

FIRST,

Term DJ first originated in Reggae in TOASTING STYLE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toasting

The guy is today known as DiskJockey.

He rules the Dancehall. Directs the Mass. Sings over rhytms. Creates good entertaiment. He is Jockey.

SELECTOR is guy that selects music and is in team with DJ.

Reggae TOASTING came before HIP HOP and TECHNO and deserves to go first. Then other things.

If you need more support of this claim, read toasting section, read "Tonight DJ saved my life"

And yes, reggae is first to come with selectors record vynil driven concept that became hip hop and techno standard.

Just to know how started the SOUND SYSTEM culture that involves both SELECTOR and MC`s.

Radio selector is just selector or Radioman. --Rastavox 00:16, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] What Is a DJ in Jamaican - FIRST TO COME - sense

FIRST,

Term DJ first originated in Reggae in TOASTING STYLE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toasting

The guy is today known as DiskJockey.

He rules the Dancehall. Directs the Mass. Sings over rhytms. Creates good entertaiment. He is Jockey.

SELECTOR is guy that selects music and is in team with DJ.

Reggae TOASTING came before HIP HOP and TECHNO and deserves to go first. Then other things.

If you need more support of this claim, read toasting section, read "Tonight DJ saved my life"

And yes, reggae is first to come with selectors record vynil driven concept that became hip hop and techno standard.

Just to know how started the SOUND SYSTEM culture that involves both SELECTOR and MC`s.

Radio selector is just selector or Radioman. --Rastavox 00:23, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wrongs ...

1) In your timeline it is not mentioned that term DJ is invented

   in Jamaica and that this what is today MC (link to MC page)

2) It is hence wrong the opening definition, since today

  in Reggae bussines original term lives. For example
  Sean Paul is a DJ. Carl Cox is just a selector.
  But, since hip hop and techno overgrown reggae 
  in popularity selector definition should go
  right next, saying that this is todays most
  popular usage (altough missinterpreted)

3) Disc vs Disc is very bad written.

 VYNIL was never called DISC.
 DJ doesn`t have DISC in his name because of VYNIL
 but because he rulled DANCE HALL.

I think this needs to be rewritten in terms CD vs VYNIL
selectors battle. CD`s are for home DJ`s, as well
as DAT`s and MD`s and altough superior in sound
and maintance - all tree `selecta industries`
- reggae/dancehall, hip hop and techno remain
 vynil driven.

4)Think of these things, I can help you with valuable sources

--Rastavox 00:35, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh? Do tell. The term Disc Jockey describes more or less what someone who plays records does -- any other uses of the term are semantic derivatives -- the Jamaican definition seems to have something to do with how pivotal the role of the DJ is in dance music, and a broadening of the idea to include what in the US might be called a promoter. (DJ is apparently a code word for bouncer in some strip clubs too. Not sure what you call the guy in the booth...) As far as CD vs vinyl (not VYNIL), what you're essentially getting into there is an argument about media preferences. The reason a lot of DJs tend to prefer vinyl is because the art of the DJ-as-musician is inherently bound up in the sound effects you can create in vinyl that simply don't exist in digital formats. Haikupoet 04:41, 11 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] CPS DJs,VJs,KJs

If a DJ uses a personal computer, I don't think that necessarily constitutes a new category for a type of DJ. Perhaps this information should be included in the equipment section. kevinsnow 16:09, 26 OCtober 2005 (UTC)

Good point Kevin

Agreed. However, A Computerized Performance System is not simply a personal computer either.

Using "Digital DJ" instead is incorrect terminology as digital refers to the method by which the media is stored and manipulated. That being the case, a DJ playing a CD is also a "Digital DJ" and the making the distinction of a CPS is in actuality, a neccessity.


wtf is a cps dj? What is the deal with all this stuff about "CPS DJS", all references to "CPS DJS" lead back to this Computer DJ teaching website which sells $100 dvds to teach you how to play music on a computer. This CPS DJ nonsense sounds like a pile of adjective noun. It'd make sense to mention the two pieces of software that people actually use to dj (Native Instrument's Traktor and Ableton Live).

CPS DJ is most definitely a scam. This is someone trying to ineject advertizing into Wikipedia, and it needs to be removed. There should probably some coverage of the differences (and additions) to DJing provided by Computer technology, but CPS DJ is a commercial term that no one uses. whitemanburntmyland

As director of the CPS program I've been active within the online communities since the Wild-West alt newsgroup days. Those were the days when any IDIOT with a keyboard and access to the World Wide Web could hide behind a keyboard and anonymously attack, belittle and character assonate anyone and anything they wish. I deleted some of the comments above due to the nature, and lack of civil, and rational conversation, and it continues to be returned. I would think that Wikipedia would seek a platform based on the value of obtaining factual and less venom spewed opinions, but obviously just as in the earlier alt news group’s anonymous insults rain.

Mr. whitemanburntmyland (you could be a female but based on your anonymous user name I’m making a guess) Your reply has no merit other that venomous innuendo and I challenge you or the individual who continues to revert your words for all to read to prove your statements. I looked up the definition from Wikipedia, the underlying and mentioned reference of the CPS program being a Scam:

From Wikipedia: Scam may refer to various kinds of confidence trick:

I challenge you to find one industry individual with a valid complaint the CPS program has tricked their confidence, ripped them off, or mislead anyone – In ANY way…. Find ONE industry individuals with a verifiable claim. I challenge you!

Since the inception of the program we are now hosting the 5th annual CPS Summit and Convention, many individuals due to full time employment, or gigs, who can’t make the Summit requested we offer DVDs or Videos so they can benefit from the wealth of material covered during the event. MANY industry events do the same and this is an industry standard, your referencing it as an adjective noun is ridiculous and reeks of underlying issues.

You mentioned Native Instrument's Traktor and Ableton Live both great products and ones I use, but you failed to mentioned PCDJ (which many years ago I came up with the name for them), My friend Jim from Stanton, My personal friend Jorgen which is about to release his ReFlex program, Dean from over at RANE, and countless other mainstream industry representatives who know of the program you claim with such authority no one knows of.

You stated the CPS DJ is a commercial term that no one uses – Did you see the printed marketing flyer for the DENON HD2500? Here is the .pdf notice page two: http://www.computerdjsummit.com/pdfforms/DN-HD2500lit-final.pdf - I could mention others and you will soon see several others in the market, but my presenting one company does prove your comment is not accurate! You can also contact the office of the American Disc Jockey Association and ask the president Dr. Drax why they have endorsed our educational program - His number is: 888-723-5776. I would mention you checking out the two and half hour (2.5) session I presented during the Mobile Beat magazine Convention in Las Vegas this year (http://www.mobilebeat.com/xcart/home.php?cat=8 notice 6th one down), But they charge for it HOW Dare they! lol

The mention of the CPS program on Wikipedia was done so by individuals not directly associated with the CPS program and claiming WE injected it as advertising is in-correct.

I hope this ends the ridiculous censorship and insults. --DJ Summit Director 21:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mobile Disc Jockeys Timeline

I have written the first draft of the Mobile DJ timeline. There are some issues with it such as external links, which I will be cleaning up over the next few days creating new articles for organizations I have cited.

I have tried to only include names of those significant to our aspect of the industry.

It is estimated by some that there may be as many as 100,000 DJs nationwide with about half being simply Mobile DJs. I realize there are many crossover DJs too that work the Clubs and Private Party Scene.

A brief bio...

Name: Jim Casey Age 35 from South Portland, Maine. I have been a working Disc Jockey since 1985 (Radio 1985-1998, Mobile 1996-Present) I own a Community Forum for Mobile DJ Professionals (a small one) and have attended many of our industry conventions, conferences, and seminars and co-founded Maine;s only Professional DIsc Jockey Association called the Maine Disc Jockey Network.

    • Mr. Casey I added a bio page for DJ Professor Jam you referenced -- the link you had was bad and went nowhere -- some on another thread have no idea who he is or his reference to computer DJing (they are not involved in the industry it seems). Great job on bringing to light our youthful Mobile DJ industry and I hope to see you in Las Vegas at the Mobile Beat convention. Word?>Out
    • Thank you for the cleanup and the addition of the Professor Jam page...MB LV not in the works this year - Maybe 2007 **


Wow - that took some time to add-----------

Wow that took some time Jim Casey

[edit] Cleaned Up

You know, I really wish that if a reader feels like an article needs to be "cleaned up to conform to a higher standard of quality" that they would go ahead and clean it up, instead of just posting a notice at the top of an article and waiting for someone else to do it. Sorry, I just wanted to rant about one of my Wikipedia Pet Peeves. Just be bold and fix it already!! kevin 2 November 2005 14:26 (UTC)

To me, the article was pretty cleaned up until the somewhat bloated section on Mobile DJs was added. So in my opinion, the entire article doesn't need cleaning, but rather that one section. So why don't we go ahead and trim that one down a bit? Perhaps make a whole new page for "Mobile DJs"? kevin 4 November 2005 15:54 (UTC)

A mistake

U-Roy is not a hip-hop DJ. he is a Jamacian DeeJay (ie he toast or 'raps' accross the top of records put on by what is reffered to in Jamacia as the selector. King Tubby (with his hi-fi sounds system) would be a selector or DJ in the sense of this article. U-Roy is a vocal artist. This really should be changed

[edit] The Whole Thing Needs To Be Tidied Up

First, to the person who mentioned David Mancuso as the "father" of the modern DJ, actually he is not. That distinction belongs to Francis Grasso. What David Mancuso brought to the table that was unique and no less important was the concept of the private party (by invitation only) which he held in his personal loft, hence the name "the Loft." Francis Grasso was the person who actually started overlaying sounds together that lead in to remixing 45's together in order to lengthen the track for the dance floor through slip-cuing with a mat underneath the record on a turntable and later experimenting with the beginnings of beat-matching and seguing 2 records together. David actually went and heard Francis playing at his nightclub. Remember, Francis was doing his thing in 1968 and 1969, David did not start the Loft parties until Valentine's Day, 1970. Both contributed to the greater good of the craft though.

Mobile DJs...this whole section wanders and is too lengthy for a generalized term as Disc Jockey. I would condense the whole thing down to one decent paragraph and move the rest to its only heading.

Also, we need to move away from the idea of listing each and every type of DJ. It's not about everyone getting their props, it's about defining what a DJ does which is the one link that joins all of us together. Why list rave DJs as separate?

Also, I was told that to link references at the bottom of the article that it needed to have credible references, not just articles from anyone out there with no sources sited. Also that credible sources needed to have a Libray of Congress reference.

Finally, Wikipedia itself it flagging this article as too long!

I would maintain the the term and definition of disc jockey should remain in a generalized context and that separate entries be added with these definitions and linked back to this article. This is not the DJ List and should not include every DJ regardless of genre or expertise known to mankind. Keep the true pioneers listed.

Also, the Microsoft event that keeps getting re-added to the TimeLine list but it had no bearing on the computer world or the DJ world. Seems like someone is trying to get a free plug for Microsoft, as if they need it. Again, site a source or reference and show WHY this is important.

Concur with this paragraph. Too many unsourced statements, many self-edits, do not meet WP:VERIFY. All unsourced edits will be removed. Edits should have a verifiable neutral reliable third party citation. Ronbo76 15:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DJ Shadow?

Hey, I just thought than DJ Shadow should be added to the list of notable hiphop deejays.

While Shadow may be a great DJ, I would think the article should showcase pioneering DJs who have influenced others. Shadow was 10 years old at the beginning of the 80's and there were certainly lots of other DJs who influenced him on the urban side as well as the pioneering jocks on the dance side.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.19.25.230 (talk) 23:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] External Link Addition Requests

  • The DJ List -- comprehensive website with more than one hundred thousand global DJs from all genres.
    • *note that someone mentions "the DJ List" in the updates above

The one and only true talent any DJ needs: PROGRAMMING PROGRAMMING AND PROGRAMMING. The ability to follow one record with the right one. A black art. Check out 'How to DJ Properly' by Bill Brewster. Sam

Every art is "black". Rootless 00:34, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

For the record, the art of programming is the ability to play the right record (or song) at the right time for a live audience. It's the timing of when the song is played that makes it unique.

[edit] Disc Jockey

There seem to be a lot of young people posting about Vinyl and disc. Well, look back into the history of Djing and it did all start with the Vinyl Disc at the radio level. There wasn't tape or CD's, obviously when radio first coined the term. But I do agree that there needs to be a more clearer section within the topic of Disc Jockey here on this site. Like lined out on a post. radio/club/party/what have you. I want to add that having been a club dj for 20 years, radio dj for 9 years and a party dj for 22 years, that no matter where you are spinning, it takes a face and name and certain energy to perform. Not everyone can walk into a room, open the mic and start talking, not everyone can spin a set at a club and not everyone can do what it takes to make a wedding party happy. I think people need to realize that as a dj, we are many times asked to be the band and the host. In the club you have to read the crowd and hopefully make adjustments to keep people dancing. In weddings you have to play to the bride or you will lose your business. In radio you have to be able to paint a picture in the theater of the mind. It takes a special knack to apply all of those traits into one body. If you are not doing this, you are stealing from the art form and you are robbing your clients!

Respect to anyone that puts the needle to the record.

Travis —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.210.20.54 (talk) 16:34, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Edits by User:Eleemosynary to this article and contrary Mark Simone, WABC (AM) etal.

Please see the contribs of User:Eleemosynary. Prior to tonight, no edits on this article appeared by this user. The contrib pattern seems to indicate that this user has a strong ownership pattern to Mark Simone and edits concerning that person. Ronbo76 05:17, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

If you had checked my history regarding the Simone edits with anything more than a cursory examination, you would have seen what I have done is remove an extensive amount of Pro-Simone POV spam planted by one user trying to game the system through several anonymous IPs. This has been going for a great deal of time, on several pages. One wonders whether Simone himself is making the edits.
My edits do not come from an "ownership pattern," but from a desire to remove PR & POV. Eleemosynary 05:54, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hate Speech

This article starts off with the line "DJ's are gay faggots and take it up the ass". Can someone fix this and track down the person who wrote it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.62.161.255 (talk) 03:54, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] "Digital disc jockeys"

In my opinion, the section on the terminology of "Digital DJ" v "CPS DJ" is badly written, possibly not NPOV, and possibly an advertisement. It should probably be removed or completely rewritten. Jibjibjib 10:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Would you like to try a rewrite? Ronbo76 14:15, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
CPS is a publicity coined term, that is specific to a software called "Rockit Pro". Other sites that mention it, cross link to each other, including djideasharing.com and computerdjsummit.com which are all basically owned by the same people. Interestingly, both sites reference back to this article as well as CPS entry, which means that they're trying to be credible by pollinating wikipedia with their own coined terms. There is no such thing as a 'CPS' and the definition of the term is copyrighted indeed by the above site owners. Everything about the so called "certification program" and "cps summit" is a publicity stunt: -asmadeus 21:59, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Hello Gentlemen,

As the founder of the program in question I have created an account to correct many false issues and hopefully put an end to the "Censorship" I've read.

As directors and founders of the program we were not responsible for the inclusion within the Wikipedia program! We were contacted well over a year ago by Jim Cassey from Maryaland and Charles Snyder the author of "So You Wanna Go Digital, from Ohio, that "they" and "others" had contributed the mention of our programs into Wikipedia. Our program was established long prior mention within your community and placing links to said articles were not to give us credibility.

After reading this article I noticed mention of many names, which are private industry enterprises such as - Mobile Beat Magazine, ProDJ.Com, Promo Only, with a less critical eye. I noticed this mention: 1995 - ProDJ.Com launched by ProDJ Publishing. In 1996 - Mobile Beat has its first national mobile DJ convention in Las Vegas. --- But the launch of the industries first organized Computer DJ Gathering "deleted" - The first International Professional Endorsed Computer DJs name "deleted", mention of the first international Computer DJ-VJ-KJ convention "deleted" - It seems to me that political undertones are in action and censorship of industry key events. The Computer DJ Summit will have its 5th event this year - How many years and at what point would it be notable enough?

Now - For The Record - "Rockit Pro" is a software development company that is "not" partners and/or owners of the CPS program - They linked to us and promote us as a program of consideration - You can find such links on many other company sites - djideasharing.com is "not" partners and/or owners of the CPS program - They also linked to us and promote us as a program of consideration - They have also partnered recently with Mobile Beat magazine and ProDJ Publishing who still supports our program and are not censored.

For individuals with issues on our CPS copyright - It's the only way to maintain the integrity of the program and not allow individuals to scrupulously manipulate it for the benefit of hidden agendas and advertising. Some create history - Others re-wright it. If anyone has question on the CPS program please phone us at the number listed at http://www.computerdjsummit.com Thank You and we hope this clears your concerns. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DJ Summit Director (talk • contribs) 18:37, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Start Again?

I last looked at this page a couple of months ago, since then it has somehow become even more difficult to understand. Should this whole thing be deleted and started again? Why use so much of the article to simply list as many djs as possible? A simple, concise description on what a dj does, what he uses and where he does it is in my mind, sufficient. Discussion of the various problems affecting radio djs in the 1950s seems irrelevant and bordering on the pedantic, a seperate page seems a suitable option for many of the sections within this article. Whitemanburntmyland 23:13, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

To me the article is missing entire sections of continuity that would make sense and possibly sections could be stand-alone once the material is better sourced and organized. There are simply thousands of DJs who are making significant contributions but I have no easy answers as to organizing them. A DJ who specializes in one genre may easy also cover a second, geography, is another area as well that defines easy use for this subject.Benjiboi 22:51, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree. It might make sense to list 4-5 people, but trying to list more than that is too much, being such a broad article, it might be good just to start over again. Leigao84 21:53, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
This is only my opinion, but the only DJs who should be listed are the pioneers who helped us get to where we are today. People keep trying to add all the latest, current DJs and granted, that list would be huge and beyond the scope of this article. BigPoppa 19:21, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recorded DJ music

I'd like to see something included on "recorded DJ music" and the issue of copyright. How are the actual artist's paid? What happens when several different works are mixed and merged and something entirely new is created? Are royalties paid?

Here is an article that talks about it:

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/music/news/2004/02/62276

I think this is a prevalent issue with this genre and there is no mention of it.

Does it already exist? Am I just not seeing it?

JK —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.235.49.61 (talk) 06:06, 15 April 2007 (UTC).

Valid question but wrong subject. While these issues do relate the the DJ, they should be included under the music and copyright headings, not in a general description about DJs. For the record, when you overlay 2 existing works, you are not creating your own unique "3rd" sound when it comes to copyrights. Yes, royalities are paid as each of the owners of the 2 existing songs would be paid for their works.

[edit] Crash-and-burn reverts

There are several reasons I reverted that edit.

  • Intro:
    • DJing is specifically playing pre-recorded music. If you play non-prerecorded music (i.e. live music), you're a musician, even if you're a DJ as well. I don't see how the word "usually" helps.
    • No need to mention that it can be in person or on radio, it's in the second paragraph.
    • Last decade? There's nothing special about 1997-2007, DJing has developed greatly before that as well (mixing, turntablism and other techniques are quite ancient).
    • VJs are not DJs, and shouldn't be mentioned in the intro. Articles about VJing are linked from here anyway.
    • Rapping and toasting are mentioned in the second paragraph. Announcements by radio DJs are actually mentioned above your edits.
  • Why write "(CDs)" after "compact discs"? If you think "compact disc" is not as clear as "CD", say "[[compact disc|CD]]s".
  • Music "and sounds"? This goes into advanced equipment.
  • MCing is definitely not the primary duty of radio DJs. They announce songs, not rap along. And they're exceptions from what, exactly?
  • Within the Club DJ spectrum is a wide variety as dictated by business needs, tastes of the audiences and local nuances. — I don't know what you're trying to say by that.
  • Saying "(corporate events)" after "company parties" seems pointless.
  • Last but not least, the bkthedj link is spam. Did you think no-one would notice?

Bottom line: redundancy, unclear wording, wrong information and a spam link.

Rootless 20:38, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Whatever, I'm not into edit wars. I think some of your points are valid others less so. I'll let others deal with cleaning up the many errors and nuances. p.s. The the bkthedj link is spam item was not from me either. Benjiboi 01:15, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Defining Disc Jockey

For those that want to shorten the article, my suggestion would be to have one paragraph summaries of all of the different types of DJs, then link them to a more detailed explanations.

The Term Disc Jockey really is a mis-nomer these days due to the ever expanding role for Mobile Disc Jockeys (Event Entertainers and Emcees), Club DJs (interaction varies by club), Turntablist, Remix DJs, and Producers that crossover, others that have cut albums themselves, and of course radio Disc Jockeys.

Every one of these roles are completely different and stretch the definition of a Disc Jockey to extremes I am sure was unimaginable in the days this term was coined.

To respond to those who think the Mobile DJ article is a simply attempting to advertise specific products and comapnies, it could not be farther from the truth. Simply put, those companies that had been mentioned are the movers and shakers of the Mobile DJ Industry and have in effect set the direction of the industry.

Personally, I'm not thrilled to mention many of those companies, but if people want the facts about the Mobile DJ Industry, than they need to know who moves the industry.

Jim Casey 15:10, 4 June 2007 (UTC)Jim Casey (from Maine BTW, not Maryland)

Re splitting article: in fact, if we disregard long lists of "Notable bedroom disk jockeys" and such, right now there's a one paragraph summary about every type of DJ, except for hip-hop DJs (who have two paragraphs) and mobile DJs (who have a mini-essay). Rootless 01:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
To comment myself: hip-hop DJs have two paragraphs, which is almost fine. They can be shortened to one, but that's pushing it. The section about mobile DJs, however, is way too long, and just repeats half of the Mobile disc jockey article. Rootless 01:22, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Hello Jim, I wanted to first thank you for mentioning the C.P.S. program and my personal contributions to the industry which were removed, edited, censored and finally slandered here within the comments area. It's my observation that some wish to paint a tainted view of our history and seeing anything outside the self-serving blinders they wear is a near impossibility. Thank you for your kind words and consideration. DJ Summit Director 06:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

You have a nerve to talk about censorship? You, who removed comments from this very talk page? Rootless 01:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes I did remove SLANDEROUS comments from this very talk page – I admitted it in my reply above and I’m not hiding behind a keyboard as an anonymous ego with underlying agendas! – On a site searching for factual content and accessible to general public viewing the removal of such comments is normal – The deleted comments you mention were re-added and I personally responded and corrected the misleading and SLANDEROUS opinions – If you have issues please open the discussion and give FACTUAL responses not snide insultsDJ Summit Director 14:33, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
It wasn't slander, it was just a negative opinion. My snide insults are quite factual — you call removal of information from an encyclopedia article censorship, although this was done just because someone considered this information not encyclopedic; OTOH, you removed others' comments from the talk page with little justification other than you didn't like them, and you don't see how that constitutes censorship. Rootless 16:45, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Rootless, this was posted above - CPS DJ is most definitely a scam. This is someone trying to ineject advertizing into Wikipedia
Here is the Wikipedia definition of “Slander and libel - In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against criticism.
The CPS program is not a scam and we didn’t place the mention of the CPS DJ Summit OR my trade name mention into Wikipedia to clam we did is false. Calling a company a Scam is not the same as deleting historical mention – One is censorship the other slander. Let’s look at it this way – Yes I deleted the slanderous comments, twice, I never denied it, and after realizing such comments are “allowed” here I replied publicly and corrected the false statements and no one has proved otherwise. The individual didn't say I THINK it's a scam - they stated, is most definitely a scam- That is Slanerous per the Wikipedia definition of “Slander and libel.DJ Summit Director 19:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
If we're using law definitions, that statement is probably a mistake of fact — i.e., that person honestly believed that CPS was a scam. In any case, removing mentions of the program from the article is not censorship, but keeping the article tidy. A couple of months ago the lists of "notable disk jockeys" in this article was shortened significantly, and mentions of most DJs were removed, but nobody claims that information was "censored". Rootless 11:04, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
I see no value is playing closet attorney as the underpinning of slander is often rooted in the foundation of mistaken facts. What you do with these mistaken facts determines if they will become Slanderous. I see by your bio you’re a DJ. Keep reading our trade magazines and you will soon see an individual, some consider an industry representative and I would guess, you may know him, will publicly be held accountable for similar situations. Yes freedom-of-speech or even press has its limitations. Your comparison has no relevance to my mention of censorship – What is being censored is factual industry events. The cleaning up of ego lists is entirely objective. As we now seem to be having a dialogue please take a moment and properly introduce yourself.DJ Summit Director 23:54, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Freedom of press certainly has limitations, but I don't think talk pages are press (though actual articles probably are). Nothing is ever objective, and that's the point of Wikipedia rules. Now, I personally don't think any certification programs should get a special mention in the article; maybe in the timeline ("200x: CPS program founded", plus a short description). Rootless 14:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
This is a public, not private, platform and subject to the same accountability. I do very much agree with you and have never stated a certification program required special mention. The history time-line should include notable industry events and I can't understand why the mention of the first organized Computer DJ gathering and first industry dedicated Computer DJ/VJ/KJ convention continued to be edited by individuals and removed. Computer DJing and live mixing applications of Lossless and Lossy media files is mainstream and we are seeing more manufacturers developing and introducing hardware components for this trend and such events represent mainstream trends and our future.DJ Summit Director 17:17, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I don't know what you mean by a "proper" introduction, but anyway: I'm Wikipedia user Rootless. In real life, I'm a club DJ and party organizer, among other things. I love music; these days it's mostly minimal techno, sometimes ambient or modern jazz (ECM style). Rootless 14:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Thank you - Are you and East Coast or West Coast DJ and what name do you DJ under?DJ Summit Director 17:17, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
I prefer to stay anonymous on Wikipedia. But I'm not from the US, and I'm not well-known globally. Rootless 18:44, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

As the author of the book that was referenced at several points in the article (at least until it was deleted) in regards to CPS, CPS DJ and so on, I would also like to point out the fact that I am not an owner of the Computer DJ Summit. I do however highly recommend it as a vital industry event as well as making frequent references to the summit as well as the associated website throughout my books, articles and website. I do not stand to "profit" from the promotion of this successful program, only professing my belief in it.

As to the validity of the CPSDJ program, terminology and reference materials; whether or not the Computer DJ Summit, the CPSDJ terminology, my books, etc. find acceptance/inclusion here on Wiki is a moot point. The terminology, the annual summit, the CPSDJ/CPSME certification program, the videos, the books, the articles and even the websites are all validated above and beyond the scope of any skewed article here by the widening of influential industry support by such entities as the American Disc Jockey Association, Disc Jockey University, ProDJ/ProDJpc, Mobile Beat Magazine, DJ Times Magazine, RockIt 2000, Tricerasoft, Denon, DJ Idea Sharing and many more. And the obvious exclusion of any such material here only calls into question the neutrality of this site as well as its actual value as a source of useful information.

If you have any questions or would like to contact me, please do so by visiting the ComputerDJing.com website.

Charles E. Snyder III Author: "So You Wanna Go Digital?" and "Introduction to Computer DJing & CPS"

[edit] Cleanup

Slightly expanded the section about technique in order to clarify. The original gave two impressions: that all techniques except for cueing, EQing, and audio mixing are basically in the same boat (lumping scratch and beat juggling in with beatmatching). I also elongated the section a little bit in order to give an impression that DJing does require manual technique, as well as separating technique groups in some sort of the order in which they're typically learned. Velveteen Saint 07:04, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] DJ'ing is an art!

Disc jockeys do a lot more than 'play pre-recorded music for an audience.' They spin turntables and remix, creating a new sound.

Peter Rauhofer and Manny Lehman create new music, not simply select pre-recorded music.68.219.112.144 16:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Benny Benasi

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